Veigar's ultimate should not be an execute

Sasogwa··1 votes·914 views

I don't really like the fact they removed the AP scaling on opponents, but that's.. fine, not really problematic to his identity. The problem is, making his R an execute goes against his kit. Veigar's combo, if it lands (with help or opponent doing a mistake most likely, as it's so unreliable) has always been EWRQ. Possibility to lasthit with Q for more AP, W as soon as possible if the guy is stunned/slowed by someone else so he is likely to get hit and then asap the other spells to be able to walk away to safety while your cooldowns are down, because you are an immobile mage that does nothing while he has his spells on CD. What the execute brings goes against it : I should have to wait for the W and Q to land and then R to lasthit for better efficiency. That's effectively putting me in more danger than I should. Veigar's R never was an execute, big damage burst =/= execute, there's no need for %missing health amplification at all, that's just putting fancy scalings on things that make the use of his spells not optimal for the sake of having a spell that does not just say "deals x damage + y (%AP) "


To be honest, that's not the only thing that bothers me about Veigar, ever since his rework. Veigar has always been THE burst mage (along with Annie maybe) with really long cooldowns and big window of opportunities if he misses. That is what his weaknesses should be. Reliable, weak earlygame, has to choose between farming and trading, has to make meaningful choices during lane about his mana, buildpath , has to make no mistakes in all ins because if he misses things, he has nothing left. He dies. That's also what having counterplay means. It's not always about dodging. Pressuring Veigar has always been a thing. What did the rework do? Make his manacosts barely comparable to what they were, reduce his CD's so now his most efficient build is 40% cdr and spam E and W until it finally hits then you can unleash doom. Window of opportunity to kill him when he fucks up being smaller. I don't like it. What they are doing about the passive and all is interesting, but I think the approach is wrong. Everytime, they took away part of his identity and to compensate removed weaknesses that were also part of his identity (smart mana management, somewhat weak laning -has to trade OR farm-, now you even gain AP by trading (? where's the meaningful choice then ?) But that's a whole other story, let's just talk about the execute for now.

3 Comments

Live2LetDie1 votes

I mean it's a handicap in the sense you can't just blow up the enemy apc with one ability but it allows you to also delete the their front line faster than anyone else.

Sasogwa1 votes

{quoted}

I mean it's a handicap in the sense you can't just blow up the enemy apc with one ability but it allows you to also delete the their front line faster than anyone else.

Faster than a DPS based mage like Cassiopeia or Azir ; or an ADC specialized in tankbusting ? I think not. Far from it. Well it's burst, but it doesn't really delete tanky people. You need sustained damage for that, tankiness counters burst. It's missing health so you're even more reliant on your team to do damage before you can execute. Well, it's not actually % missing health, more like increased damage based on missing health.

I think it's not good because it doesn't work well with your other spells, you have to wait for the whole delayed kit to work and then you can ult. And standing still "waiting for it" isn't exactly what you want. And well, it's not like Veigar is a poke mage either that has an execute, his Q is way too short ranged and his other spells have too much delay for that.

Senate1 votes

I'm pretty sure that last hitting with Qs don't matter anymore, since they decreased the AP bonus from killing champions. As such, the update is changing the (ideal) order to EWQR.

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