Talon Feedback

TheGrot··1 votes·746 views

I played talon a lot back a couple of seasons ago. I think the overall rework is nice, but he's a bit weak. One of the really strong things about Talon that nobody seemed to realize before on him was black cleaver. Because your Q bled people, you could tag someone and they'd have full armor reductor for a good 11 or so seconds. All the while, you gain a nice movespeed steroid to add to your maneuverability in fights. Personally, I felt it was when black cleaver was reworked that talon became viable, and that's when I started playing him a lot. I think nobody just ever realized it because Talon is just one of those champion who's easy to forget about. Not to mention that pro players are offered little to no time to actually experiment with champions because how fast patches get released. Black Cleaver on talon, in my honest opinion, made him the best team-fighting assassin in the game.

Here are my initial thoughts after playing talon for the first time: (I understand that I haven't exactly spammed him, but I have a high tendency in being right with these kind of things) RIght now, talon's damage actually somehow feels lower. A full combo with 2 items barely take an adc below half. I'm willing to say that the damage is just a 1-game outlier, but there's still a problem of mobility.

I would say buff back his movespeed, but then his roaming abilities would probably be too strong. What you could do is add some kind of a small movespeed buff to interact with one of his abilities.

Before, it was you jump in with talon, you Q someone, you R, and then you get yourself into a good rake ult position. Going the black cleaver build, this would apply a good amount of armor reduction to everyone on the enemy team, given the multiple instances of damage he deals. And after the fact, the bleed tag on your Q is what made it so you could continue to maneuver around in a teamfight. Sure, you wouldn't have an ult or an E to use anymore, but you would be able to dodge most skill shots with some good reaction skill.

If I had to make a change right here and now, here's what it would be: I would reduce the cooldown of Q at max level by 1 second (6seconds --> 5 seconds), and I would add a 3 seconds 10% movespeed bonus after casting Q on an enemy champion. This way, you can still itemize towards CDR to augment your teamfighting abilities (don't get me wrong, it's good for 1v1 too) without feeling like you're doing too little for not one-shotting someone right away.

Overall: I like the talon rework, but I think he needs a little buff in the right direction. Talon's always been a unique assassin because of his roaming and teamfight capabilities. I think he just needs a small push in the right direction, so that when he itemizes to play on his strengths he's able to use them to good effect. ANd I think that a change like the one I suggested would be able to do that.

5 Comments

Draqone1 votes

I am somewhat unqualified but I played around with talon.

The only time I felt "I am playing this right" was when I played him in toplane.

His Q can 2shot waves mid/late game and he can push decently fast as he builds so much AD. If you build some sustain (Deaths Dance) the enemy must send 2 people to stop you from pushing and even then they can never catch you.

ChaddyFantome1 votes

I played talon a lot back a couple of seasons ago. I think the overall rework is nice, but he's a bit weak. One of the really strong things about Talon that nobody seemed to realize before on him was black cleaver. Because your Q bled people, you could tag someone and they'd have full armor reductor for a good 11 or so seconds. All the while, you gain a nice movespeed steroid to add to your maneuverability in fights. Personally, I felt it was when black cleaver was reworked that talon became viable, and that's when I started playing him a lot. I think nobody just ever realized it because Talon is just one of those champion who's easy to forget about. Not to mention that pro players are offered little to no time to actually experiment with champions because how fast patches get released.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but this isn't a secret at all ;P

Black Cleaver on talon, in my honest opinion, made him the best team-fighting assassin in the game. I still think Katarina was the better of the two simply because she did more overall damage and wasn't locked into AD, compromising team composition, but He certainly was very underrated in that regard.

Also, you were playing prechange talon wrong as well.

What you wanted to do was E>aaa>Q> (tiamat)>W>Ulti >run while invisible and close the second half behind you if they didn't die to the first.

Overall tho i disagree with your assessment. Ideally, as Talon, you wanna dart in and out of the fight after it has started now as opposed to sitting in it in the first place.

Additionally, he gets WAY more MS from his ultimate now and he still gets BC affect from his Passive .

Personally, what it sounds like to me is you haven't converted to the Church of Stormraiders yet. :P

TheGrot1 votes

You're right and wrong. That's how you combo'd with talon if you were going the full damage - insta kill build. I was not rushing tiamat. I was going a teamfight variation of Talon, which I had about a 75% win rate on the season I was spamming him. Why did I stop? A new season happened. Cleaver nerfs. And somehow, he just felt weaker comparatively.

And the thing is the new passive doesn't work the same way. Before with the bleed, the movespeed was everlasting. Practically permanent. Now, you only get 2 seconds of it, and it's not applied right away.

The one-hit talon play-style never made it to competitive play because it was strictly hit or miss. You either went off or you didn't. And at a higher level of play, people just know how to play against that kind of thing. They know how to not give you free roams and kills whenever you feel like going in. My variation of talon did not require that you go off during lane phase and offered something unique in team-fights that no other champion could offer. And before you say "Oh but why didn't your talon build make it to pro play if it's so amazing," remember that I already answered that in the original post.

ChaddyFantome1 votes

{quoted}

You're right and wrong. That's how you combo'd with talon if you were going the full damage - insta kill build. I was not rushing tiamat. I was going a teamfight variation of Talon, which I had about a 75% win rate on the season I was spamming him. Why did I stop? A new season happened. Cleaver nerfs. And somehow, he just felt weaker comparatively.

And the thing is the new passive doesn't work the same way. Before with the bleed, the movespeed was everlasting. Practically permanent. Now, you only get 2 seconds of it, and it's not applied right away.

The one-hit talon play-style never made it to competitive play because it was strictly hit or miss. You either went off or you didn't. And at a higher level of play, people just know how to play against that kind of thing. They know how to not give you free roams and kills whenever you feel like going in. My variation of talon did not require that you go off during lane phase and offered something unique in team-fights that no other champion could offer. And before you say "Oh but why didn't your talon build make it to pro play if it's so amazing," remember that I already answered that in the original post.

so what u are telling me is u played him as a bruiser and ur complaints are that he isn't as good as a bruiser anymore?

U cereal?

EcchiOtakuTM1 votes

I just feel when W is in flight during that delay if you AA someone the blades should home in on that unit. Similar to ulti but doesn't remove the delay. I say this because unlike ekko, talon can't reposition himself to land W which I'm fine with. I'm also fine with sidestepping dodges and such. However there's a huge issue where someone will directly dash/blink EVEN FLASH directly behind you even as RANGED and take no punishment.

I'm not trying to completely remove his counterplay but it feels like a cheese factor when someone goes even closer to an assassin to avoid instead of trying to sidestep/dodge the second hit then engage talon.

If that makes sense....Idk if I explained properly.

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