Camille Nerfs Are Now Obviously Essential

Tacosrock·Jan 21, 2017·86 votes·5,135 views

After seeing Camille be either banned 100% of the time or completely dominating in the pro scene, I think it's fair to say she needs some huge nerfs, or more specifically, nerfs on her E. I don't think I've seen a release as bad as Camille's right now, and it's aggravating because I just want to play the champion. So please Riot, just nerf Camille so that others have a chance to play her. It's not like the situation is gonna get any better by just leaving her alone. It certainly didn't work out for y'all when you left Syndra alone, so what makes you think it'll work for Camille?

123 Comments

XavanicJan 21, 201713 votes

Tbh, their has been far worse releases, the terror of release ap rengar was horrible

EndlessSorcererJan 21, 201727 votes

Gangplank and Mordekaiser during S5 Worlds.

XavanicJan 21, 201710 votes

Wasnt that when morde was op as shit just after the juggarnaut rework?

EndlessSorcererJan 21, 201726 votes

Yep. Banning phase in S5 Worlds had two results:

Mordekaiser and Gangplank were both banned.
Mordekaiser and Gangplank were both first-picked.

Basically, whichever team was Red Side would effectively have one ban available to them.

XavanicJan 21, 20173 votes

lol, god, release malz was also horrible

Faceroll TacticsJan 21, 20176 votes

Nothing beats release Leblanc

The first one, where she was hotfixed mere hours after release for being beyond op

RoranaJan 21, 20176 votes

wasnt zyra hotfixed hours after her release cause her damage and range were just insane

SpoofghoulJan 21, 20172 votes

well i have played against one today and can confirmed she still hasn't been hotfixed

stupid plant hit me for 1500 dmg

That thing is spawning mini vaynes allover the place

Supreme Senpai69Jan 22, 20173 votes

Don't we have a PBE? I'm seeing all these posts and am just baffled how these things can be released

SociopathFriendJan 22, 20175 votes

PBE is more or less, "Make sure the particles show up, the animations work, items behave appropriately, and make sure the new whatever doesn't crash the game."

They simply cannot get enough feedback without going to live servers. And even then they don't always get enough feedback considering if a champion is banned 9/10 games, that's 9/10 games where they get virtually no feedback.

TequilaZombieJan 22, 20171 votes

I think that if a champion is banned 9 out of 10 times Riot has all the feedback it needs.

SociopathFriendJan 23, 20171 votes

They have the exact opposite. They know what the community thinks- they do not have the hard data they need to do much about it. Why do you think champions get banned for so long before anything is done about them?

Also, the community generally has a hissy fit for every new champion and bans them because they don't want to learn how to play alongside or against them- regardless of their power. Should Riot just nerf every champion they release into the ground because everyone bans them? They have all that feedback after all...

PaffWasTakenJan 21, 20174 votes

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAHA

you clearly don't remember runeglaive item 1402 mid Ezreal

XavanicJan 21, 20172 votes

Runeglaive ez was annoying, but not really that op, the only thing strong about it was he could proc ludens on his q thx to runeglaive, but other then that, you compare it to some other releases, it was not nearly as bad

MartyrofsandJan 22, 20173 votes

{quoted}

Runeglaive ez was annoying, but not really that op, the only thing strong about it was he could proc ludens on his q thx to runeglaive, but other then that, you compare it to some other releases, it was not nearly as bad

Actually the ludens proc what made it strong. The one item made AP EZ top teir. AP EZ has a huge weakness in that he can't push a wave. His primary AP damage skill, his W, doesn't do damage to minions and his Q is weak on it's own. The runeglaive gave him AoE damage on his Q which meant as soon as he finished it he could start clearing waves not to mention farm the jungle with the purple AoE damage smite that would give back health and mana. Suddenly he had sustain, AoE clear, jungle farm potential and the AP EZ effect of 1 instakilling squishies from across the map.

Yeah there was a lot more broken about Runeglaive EZ than just the ludens proc, and as a guy who plays EZ more AP than AD I can't tell you how much I miss that item.

XavanicJan 22, 20171 votes

I just felt it was never in a state where it felt like oh shit this is impossible to lane against, thats all

MartyrofsandJan 22, 20171 votes

I would agree I never saw it as impossible to lane or play against either, that wasn'the the point of my post. I was mainly addressing the "it just made his Q proc ludens" comment which was simply wrong. Runeglaive did so much more for AP Ez than just that.

cardinals29Jan 22, 20171 votes

IIRC the thing that made runeglaive EZ so strong was that runegliave proc would make the empowered auto AP damage. So whenever EZ Q'd it would be 100% magic damage. Combine that with the waveclear from the AOE and purple smite and it was pushed over the top.

Troll for TrumpJan 22, 20172 votes

release xz and release darius.

TequilaZombieJan 22, 20171 votes

I'd take release Darius over Cammile anytime.

MordepoolJan 21, 20173 votes

{quoted}

Gangplank and Mordekaiser during S5 Worlds.

Reworks aren't releases

LordGeovanniJan 21, 20173 votes

they kinda are you change the champion and re -release them/ release their new form.

A Basic IslandJan 21, 20171 votes

morde got picked at worlds?!?!?

boss10000Jan 21, 20174 votes

wildturtle carried TSM due to it in the one game mode was not banned.

When wildturtle carries on something you know its broken as fk.

Weasel KenseiJan 21, 201713 votes

I made a thread about Camille being both overpowered and overloaded prior to relese as her kit and design was related to tank Yasuo/Ekko. All the "nothing is ever overpowerd" fucking morons came out of the woodwork to argue with me, got mostly downvotes.

I pointed out that if we have champs like Yasuo and Ekko who become problems when they build tank, and become mobile hard to kill champs... why is it ok for Camille to be designed to be what Yas and Ekko are when they build tank from her base?

The common wisdom dipshits threw at me was "But she was designed that way so its balanced." You cant have Yasuo and Ekko building tank being busted, then design a champ to be what they are when they build tank be balanced.

Unlucky47Jan 21, 20177 votes

I honestly can't fathom why they let a champion do 721 true damage to me in one auto on top of 300 more being physical damage. It's a garen ultimate that you have to wait 3 seconds for. I think her q should only convert up to 50% as true damage and anything above that is just ridiculous

Bouncemaster ZacJan 21, 20176 votes

The part that really stuck out to me is while I was watching the EU LCS the casters, who work for Riot would not stop talking about how Camille ban is 100% mandatory, and the instant she got through bans and got first-picked, the casters called the match before it even started. And they were right. Camille decimated everyone she came near and solo-carried. In the LCS. A Champion genuinely solo-carried a professional match.

Banana NationsJan 21, 20175 votes

current lb is even stronger than camille or reksai release

Handy Sandy Jan 21, 201710 votes

Lb has to wait around for her passive. She's pretty squishy too.

LordGeovanniJan 21, 20172 votes

wait around(with her range and mobility) must be pretty hard while camille has to get in range stay in range and wait around her her w to activate q to charge. rekasi wasnt strong on release people didnt like being bothered to have to back off when reksai ulted which she had to set up and the tunnels had to be ignored its only ever viable in team play you cant even play reksai solo anymore

AnidanJan 21, 20171 votes

Rek'sai wasn't strong on release

lol yeah that's why she saw nothing but nerfs from her release to... now :D

I actually looked it up just to be sure, she didn't see anything but nerfs and the occasional QoL change from 4.21 (her release) to 6.3.

LordGeovanniJan 26, 20171 votes

Reksai was constantly nerfed just because of LCS while Tf has a shorter cooldown ult with more less counter play and more damage same with. Tahm kench ult constantly nerfed for the same reason even though its long to dive long to come up and tahm kench is low damage as a champion.

Sexy Jack RabbitJan 21, 20173 votes

LB has a strong laning phase and then some of the hardest fall off of almost any champion beside Nidalee and Elise. She's not as broken as people think she is, people just don't know how to play against her laning phase, which is admittedly one of the strongest in the game. That being said, All Assassins have strong laning phases.

RevaliJan 21, 20175 votes

All Assassins have strong laning phases

Akali Kassadin

MuffledGarbageJan 21, 20175 votes

Camille is in the Darius Renekton Riven type of earlygame in the sense that

If you lose lane to her she'll proceed to kill anyone who comes in her way.

If you go even in lane she becomes a permanent splitpusher because she's god-awful in teamfights

If you get ahead in lane she's next to useless for the rest of the game

Camille is the only earlygame fighter that specializes in 1v1's.

Her current state of nerfs is actually fine.

Keep in mind Camille's pros and cons

PROS: always has a relevant shield in a 1v1 high damage has a dash has a stun has a slow has a heal has an inescapable ultimate

CONS: Her damage is spread out over a large period of time.

Her dash is stuck to walls and moderately slow in comparison to other dashes

Her stun is stuck to her dash and only lasts 1.5 seconds at max rank

her slow is only useful on the outside of her W

her heal is small if it only hits one person

her ultimate is only useful on people that are low/can't outdamage her/ don't know her ultimate can't be escaped by any means.

Camille has her fair share of pros and cons

however all her cons stem from one thing... NOT BEING ABLE TO HIT HER ABILITIES

you know who is a toplaner that is good at avoiding melee range attacks? Gnar Quinn Teemo

three easy counters right there. sure Camille CAN beat them...

it's a matter of someone's skill/knowledge anyway bai

Sexy Jack RabbitJan 21, 201720 votes

I don't mean to be dismissive but you're point is basically invalid. Despite all of this, she is still at a 70% Ban rate in Solo Queue alone, and a 100% Ban Rate in Professional. That is not acceptable by any standard. Even Yasuo is not banned that often, and he's infamous. You can say what you want, she will be seeing further changes regardless.

ModAcademy KaynJan 21, 20176 votes

To be fair, Darius continued being banned long after he got nerfs that put him in a favorable position. Camille just got nerfs, and she most likely might need more, but you can't simply rely on Ban Rate as an indication. (or at least in Solo Que. Pro Scene is different)

Supreme Senpai69Jan 22, 20172 votes

Not everyone reads patch notes, some people don't think the nerfs are enough, etc, so they continue to ban. Just to elaborate on that.

ValyrianBladeJan 21, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Camille is in the type of earlygame in the sense that

If you lose lane to her she'll proceed to kill anyone who comes in her way.

If you go even in lane she becomes a permanent splitpusher because she's god-awful in teamfights

If you get ahead in lane she's next to useless for the rest of the game

Camille is the only earlygame fighter that specializes in 1v1's.

Her current state of nerfs is actually fine.

Keep in mind Camille's pros and cons

PROS: always has a relevant shield in a 1v1 high damage has a dash has a stun has a slow has a heal has an inescapable ultimate

CONS: Her damage is spread out over a large period of time.

Her dash is stuck to walls and moderately slow in comparison to other dashes

Her stun is stuck to her dash and only lasts 1.5 seconds at max rank

her slow is only useful on the outside of her W

her heal is small if it only hits one person

her ultimate is only useful on people that are low/can't outdamage her/ don't know her ultimate can't be escaped by any means.

Camille has her fair share of pros and cons

however all her cons stem from one thing... NOT BEING ABLE TO HIT HER ABILITIES

you know who is a toplaner that is good at avoiding melee range attacks?

three easy counters right there. sure Camille CAN beat them...

it's a matter of someone's skill/knowledge anyway bai

I played as Quinn vs Camille once. Got up to 13 kills. Was up 1.8k gold at 20min on her (at 18min had 1.6k gold on everyone on the enemy team). Didn't stop her from Chasing indefinitely with E, and despite dodging the stun on EVERY one she eventually gets the kill with her Q and W. And the ult of course if I get too annoying. We had to commit so many resources to stopping Camille (i.e. 2v1 and 3v1'ing her repeatedly) that her team went somewhat unchecked, and despite keeping her shut down she got to go on an 8 kill streak at the end of the game (starting from her team down 2.8k gold and her being 3/7/0 at 20min). Making it to 20min is a default pretty much - there's no reason to say it's our fault for letting her get to "late" game at 20min.

Outplayed her repeatedly, but they had Camille so default got to win. Now admittedly she got a level 2 gank that put her ahead in lane and despite giving first blood I was able to come right back and kill her, then kill her again in multiple 1v2s (dying at the same time), and she got camped fairly hard, but nonetheless Camille was quite far behind and could still 1v1 anyone and everyone with ease. Cheesed her repeatedly by baiting her E on to me when my ADC was around the corner and killing her 2v1 but it didn't matter, she eventually scaled and won hard.

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2385390458/216460380?tab=overview

MuffledGarbageJan 22, 20172 votes

The biggest problem in the Camille VS Quinn matchup was you using your E to stop Camille's and you kiting her well.

If you used your E as Quinn when Camille E'd towards you that would be a garunteed trade in your favor due to the Valor mark and you autoattacking the mark.

you're botlane lost which was an insta loss. There's no proof Camille carried the whole game.

If anything it looks more like Zac carried the game with the many ganks he can do VS the Jarvan who could, at best, get a gank out at half of Zac's gank speed

Sraeg2013Jan 21, 20173 votes

Nobody with a shred of brain gives a flying crap about pro play when talking about balancing the game.

Pro play is one of the main reasons this game is getting worse with every season. Current 4-man clown fuck fiestas at bot lane? Solely thanks to pro play.

AnidanJan 21, 20176 votes

The problem is neither competitive nor casual, it's RIOT, so can we get our heads out of our asses for the blame game?

The stagnant meta that has required a 1/1/2+1 lineup for years? Riot. ADC being damn-near required because of how this game's overall metas have been shaped? Riot. Objective priorities? Riot.

Pro play didn't magically make the 4-man bot lane clown fiestas happen, those were due to conscious changes by - you getting the pattern yet? - Riot. Riot made first tower blood, Riot made the bot lane towers go down easier, Riot has done all of this on their own with pro play as a buffer between them and blame, and you're going to go for the buffer when you have a perfectly good chance to go for the actual root cause? That's like purposely attacking an enemy's shield when they have a weak spot exposed because if you break the shield then it'll be easier to attack them later when it's broken or weaker instead of going for the vulnerability and being done with it.

You don't blame what they're using as justification, you blame Riot for using that to justify screwing everyone else over if you care so much. Pro play didn't magically make this all happen, Riot consciously did it themselves.