Are we still under the impression that Skarner's rework was a failure?

Cloud273··2 votes·820 views

Sitting at a 54% win rate currently (In the top 10 for win rates). He's maintained at least a 52% win rate for a very long time now, and that number continues to climb. Yes, his play rate is very low, but clearly the people who actually play him know what they're doing. Maybe we should stop complaining about Skarner and be happy with him as is.

http://champion.gg/statistics/#?sortBy=general.winPercent&order=descend

13 Comments

ViashinoWizard5 votes

When people say Skarner's rework "failed," they're not talking about strength/viability so much as identity.

Cloud2731 votes

{quoted}

When people say Skarner's rework "failed," they're not talking about strength/viability so much as identity.

I'm aware that Skarner is no longer the "permaslow tank" that he used to be, but despite this he is still a very strong pick. I'm honestly not sure why he isn't played more in LCS.

Variks the Loyal4 votes

His winrate is stable because only people who like Skarner, and have always liked Skarner, continue to play him.

He's always been one of my favorite champions, since his original, perma-slow kit. And currently, he's one of my fallback, all-situation junglers.

The Juggernaut update didn't really help him out in a drastic way. He remains the only Juggernaut that doesn't deal much upfront damage, and lacks good in-fight sustain. Skarner just sort of feels like a shitload of passives, stats, and effects thrown together to try and make a champion viable. And while we who like Skarner will play him because we love his thematics, lore, and general playstyle, we also acknowledge he's sort of a design trainwreck.

I don't blame Riot for this. They had two subpar reworks prior to the Juggernaut one, each not doing much for us Skarner players. I think they aren't very inspired for Skarner, and never really were. His lack of new lore, his overloaded kit, and not to mention the fact that almost every single passive effect of his has 'Crystal' as a prefix (Surely they can come up with more original names), just leads me to believe there isn't a designer at Riot who's inspired by Skarner's thematics and character. And that's okay. You can't force inspiration.

So, I wait for the day when a designer passionate about Skarner takes the reins.

Cloud2731 votes

{quoted}

His winrate is stable because only people who like Skarner, and have always liked Skarner, continue to play him.

He's always been one of my favorite champions, since his original, perma-slow kit. And currently, he's one of my fallback, all-situation junglers.

** The Juggernaut update didn't really help him out in a drastic way.** He remains the only Juggernaut that doesn't deal much upfront damage, and lacks good in-fight sustain. Skarner just sort of feels like a shitload of passives, stats, and effects thrown together to try and make a champion viable. And while we who like Skarner will play him because we love his thematics, lore, and general playstyle, we also acknowledge he's sort of a design trainwreck.

I don't blame Riot for this. They had two subpar reworks prior to the Juggernaut one, each not doing much for us Skarner players. I think they aren't very inspired for Skarner, and never really were. His lack of new lore, his overloaded kit, and not to mention the fact that almost every single passive effect of his has 'Crystal' as a prefix (Surely they can come up with more original names), just leads me to believe there isn't a designer at Riot who's inspired by Skarner's thematics and character. And that's okay. You can't force inspiration.

So, I wait for the day when a designer passionate about Skarner takes the reins.

This is an outright lie. The extra MS he gets from the new items was a HUGE buff to Skarner. It makes him much harder to kite, and he's able to reach his target much more easily than before.

corals1 votes

I disagree, the nerfed his slow and base move speed. Plus other champions are building items that grant movespeed/kite potential. I feel like I have a consistently harder time reaching targets compared to his state prerework season change. And as a hardcore skarner main, I am unsatisfied with his current state. He may be viable, but they kind of sucked some of the fun out of his kit.

Quepha3 votes

High winrate but no one likes him? That's definitely a failure.

MistroTTC2 votes

Viability doesn't automatically make a champion rework or design a success, I could make Yorick the most op champion in the game, and that wouldn't make him a well designed champ.

Clutch Thompson1 votes

Maybe if he was played more, people would be more familiar with playing against skarner. Just devil's advocate though.

Shadragon1 votes

I'd consider reaching a 64.57% win rate (Highest of any champion in the history of the game) and 63.4% ban rate to be a pretty major failure, at least initially. And now he's dropped back into obscurity, and while he may be a decent champion now, Skarner players still had to endure their favorite champion receiving yet another radical rework, becoming THE MOST CANCEROUS CHAMPION IN THE HISTORY OF THE GAME, then another series of nerfs before falling back into the Yorick zone again. If I played Skarner, I think I would consider the rework to be the greatest failure Riot has ever made since Feral Flare or Cleaver Fever. At least with those, the damage was undone when they nerfed/removed the item.

Variks the Loyal1 votes

{quoted}

This is an outright lie. The extra MS he gets from the new items was a HUGE buff to Skarner. It makes him much harder to kite, and he's able to reach his target much more easily than before.

The only MS item I assume you mean is item 3742.

Yes. It helps. But it doesn't help much. Anyone who knows how to kite will still kite him. And that's good! As a Juggernaut, that should be Skarner's main weakness. Anyone who knows Skarner will know not to fight him in a spire, and kite him away from it.

The Juggernaut change brought two key things to Skarner. One, the Spires. Two, the stun on Fracture.

At first, the stun on Fracture was overpowered with it's damage, and Skarner was nerfed for it. Since then, it's not as powerful as you may think. While it helps with ganks, it relies on a slow skillshot that gets slower if you shoot it through a minion wave. A good, experienced Skarner player will anticipate when he needs to Fracture. Then, after that, you need to melee the target. If they know how to kite, or have a dash, this is very difficult. Again, it's very helpful for ganks, but very underwhelming late game.

The Spires aren't helpful at all, except in niche situations. Skarner can hardly jungle without them. I know I skip Krugs most of the time when I jungle as Skarner, because killing it is a chore compared to every other camp which can be killed in a Sire (Gromp can be kited to the Spire and killed within it). If you've lost your Spires, your clear time and sustain will be miserable. The Spires do come in handy in 3 situations - Dragon control, Baron control, and Scuttle control. Skarner does get a notable power boost in the Spires, and oftentimes, it's enough to make enemies back off, giving Skarner the objective.

The other niche use is vision, but it works both ways. You know where your enemy is when they cap a Spire. But they also know where you are when you do.

However, outside of that, the new effects aren't helpful. The Spires aren't helpful in teamfights because, often times, you won't be near them. There's no spire in your base, or the enemy base, or any lanes. So, late game, Skarner just doesn't have a passive unless he's by the Baron pit. Also, it's impossible to play Skarner in top lane anymore, which yes, some people liked to do.

Yes, Skarner is strong in the right hands. But the Juggernaut changes didn't suddenly make him strong. He was a decent jungler beforehand, and that's why we kept playing him. I remember playing Skarner before the Juggernaut changes were released, and someone said they thought Skarner was sleeper OP.

The issue with Skarner isn't one of gameplay and viability. He was always viable, just like other obscure champions like Galio, Yorick, and Taric. It's an issue of thematics, originality, and interesting gameplay.

Quepha1 votes

Skarner shouldn't have been treated as a Juggernaut. His movespeed, cc, and AoE damage have consistently given him an identity that matches their definition of a tank.

Variks the Loyal1 votes

{quoted}

Skarner shouldn't have been treated as a Juggernaut. His movespeed, cc, and AoE damage have consistently given him an identity that matches their definition of a tank.

I think it's because, historically, Skarner has always been a very tanky and effective duelist. Back in the day, Skarner players would opt for Spirit of the Elder Lizard and Trinity Force, before opting for defensive items. This made Skarner one of the best duelists. Get invaded? You kill the invader. Handily.

Back then, you could say he played as a modern day Juggernaut would. They didn't even add more CC to his kit until his 2nd rework.

corals1 votes

His CC was originally different, he had a perma slow and his ult. The stun got added in later, then it was made easier to land.

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