He then manages to deal 80% of my hp with just 1 combo even though I bought 
and used 
and had a 1 level advantage,
This goes to show how ridiculous burst damage is nowadays. If I didn't take any of these precautions I would have gotten 1-shot.
Thimes56 votesFizz could always to that, I used to play mid in S4 and Fizz could one-shot me with starting items form full HP at level 6. It's just Fizz.
Malak16 votesFizz could always to that, I used to play mid in S4 and Fizz could one-shot me with starting items form full HP at level 6. It's just Fizz.
Then can we buff Karthus so he one shots you at lvl 6 with starting items and say “it’s just Karthus”
Fízz v210 voteskarthus oneshots you late game across the map, thats just karthus
Nyarlathοtep12 votesAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Good one.
Thefrostyviking21 votesWell its not actually far from it?
I think a maxbuild karthus can do like 80-90% of a no MR targets hp with ulti alone, or if he gets very fed.
Weiss Guertena20 votesNot really. The lowest HP champion in the game is mini-Gnar, with 1615 at level 18. Karthus' R deals 550+75% AP. In order to deal 80% of mini Gnar's HP with R alone Karthus would need 990 AP. And that 990 AP only accounts for premitigation damage - add MR to the formula and the number goes well over a thousand.
PhDs Nuts4 votes[{quoted}](name=Weiss Guertena,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2ymL4vPc,comment-id=000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-26T18:15:08.764+0000)
Not really. The lowest HP champion in the game is mini-Gnar, with 1615 at level 18. Karthus' R deals 550+75% AP. In order to deal 80% of mini Gnar's HP with R alone Karthus would need 990 AP. And that 990 AP only accounts for premitigation damage - add MR to the formula and the number goes well over a thousand.
+ Aery + Scorch
You don't have MR unless you bought some, and you forgot about the additional damage done by items/runes.
Weiss Guertena3 votesI also didn't count Gnar's items (and Gnar builds for durability) or the possibility of him going Mega. The point was comparing with naked lowest HP pool in game.
After Gnar, the lowest HP pools in order belong to Janna, Nami, Lulu, Sion, Sona and Zyra. Enchanters on the list have shields/heals and Sion builds tank items and has W passive, so Zyra is technically the squishiest champion in the game (both building offensive items and having no innate defensive tools).
She has 1847 HP at level 18. Let's also add Luden's, Aery and Scorch and assume they all hit Zyra and not one of other 4 enemies). That's 720 + 95% AP. Even with all those sources of artificial damage, Karthus would need 797 AP to take 80% of Zyra's base HP before mitigation. While not impossible it's still an extremely high amount you have to obtain through only 5 items (boots don't grant AP) - and again, this is counting every possible item and rune Karthus would use to increase his damage and none of items/runes Zyra could use to mitigate it. If we counted Zyra's build too the amount of AP required would once again be well over a thousand.
crippler381 votesShould you count him likely having the Haunting Guise passive?
Not that I think he'll oneshot without predator and Mejais stacked, but I thought Haunting was pretty good on Karthus.
Kats Pajamas5 votes[{quoted}](name=Weiss Guertena,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2ymL4vPc,comment-id=000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-26T18:15:08.764+0000)
Not really. The lowest HP champion in the game is mini-Gnar, with 1615 at level 18. Karthus' R deals 550+75% AP. In order to deal 80% of mini Gnar's HP with R alone Karthus would need 990 AP. And that 990 AP only accounts for premitigation damage - add MR to the formula and the number goes well over a thousand.
RUNES? PREDATOR? LEVELS? LUDENS? LIANDRIES? DRAGONS? ... Do you just build 6 deathcaps?
990 AP is also small for a mid mage known to build tear.
Thefrostyviking15 votes990 AP is sky high, you need infernal drakes to reach that number as far as i know.
Pretty sure even a maxbuild with tear&rab lands you at 700-800 AP depending on items in said build.
Its expensive too though.
Disembark1 votesproblem with Karthus is not his lategame though, it's getting there.
A dead Karthus pressing R in a lategame teamfight is far more useful than Fizz in that 5v5 even if he plays it perfectly.
Fizz is one of the stupidest champions ever, but its not like he will ever be more useful than Karthus in a late game situation.
Bârd4 votesEarly-midgame Karthus is fine if you have experience on the champion an OK matchup. He has enough range to farm, enough AOE to control waves, a decent slow to defend himself/follow up on ganks, and even does enough damage to have solo kill potential if you're good at him.
Unless you're against somebody like Zed/Fizz or you get camped by somebody who doesn't care about your slow, Karthus can kick ass early game, he just can't one shot with his ult until a lot later.
Disembark1 votesKarthus honestly just doesn't have the tools to keep up in league right now. He's far too vulnerable to ganks, and have huge mana problems unless you're really good with E, in a game where mana feels almost like a non-existant resource as most mages just spam abilities off cooldown.
Bârd3 votesIf you last hit well, you don't run out of mana unless you're all-inning with E/W often.
crippler381 votesJust last hit with your Q from max range. Most champions can't contest you and the isolation mechanic makes last hitting minions with your Q a breeze.
If you don't use your other abilities, I've never felt Karthus go OOM. If you are using your other abilities, you're trying to fight somebody. Even if you do run out of mana, a couple of last hits will ensure you can at least far from well behind your ranged minions.
Kats Pajamas1 votes990 AP is sky high, you need infernal drakes to reach that number as far as i know.
Pretty sure even a maxbuild with tear&rab lands you at 700-800 AP depending on items in said build.
Its expensive too though.
990 is a pointless number because he calculated the base AP for the ability to kill, aka 6 deathcaps, aka retarded example.
Liandries does 12% max hp burn ticks a second for 3 seconds, liandries/ryla alone gets them to 64% from max hp. Ludens then adds 100 base damage and 10% scale, with multi-target aoe(some people add this as scale).
Comet has an additional 20% scale and 100 base damage.
Without even killing infernal, my ultimate did 3,000 premitigated damage to a target dummy.
ps. you absolutely can hit 990 without infernals. that is also wrong that you 'need infernals' to get 990 ap on tear mage. the max ap for such a mage is like 1500 or 1600, so YES, 990 is fucking low for a tear mage.
quick maffs= deathcap120ap x 6= 720 + deathcap passive = 1008 AP. 0 infernal drakes.
You can also achieve 990 with a mejai/deathcap/arch/luden/roa/ryla and 0 infernals, but I think the quik maffs above shuts your definitive statement down pretty quick.
after 3 infernals and a mega drake/baron, you easily hit 1500 AP on any tear mage. Even 1600 sometimes.
Thefrostyviking2 votesThe reason i said you wont hit such a high AP is because i assume most will not build something like deathcap/spellbinder x6, they will keep lower AP items because those items offer something valuable.
Like zhonya,voidstaff, liandry and more.
Who the heck has the time to stack a bunch of tears too in a normal?
(120+70+90+130+80+125) x 1,4 =864.
This is a complete glass cannon high damage build that is also quite unreasonable with a mejai on the slow karthus but it does indeed land him at a AP higher than what i expected.
However its still quite a bit lower than 960 or anything above, yes?
Weiss Guertena3 votes990 AP is absolutely massive for everyone not named Veigar, even with 3 Infernals, runes and items optimized for maximum AP (which would also mean no penetration from boots).
Kats Pajamas1 votes[{quoted}](name=Weiss Guertena,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2ymL4vPc,comment-id=00000000000100000000000000010001,timestamp=2018-08-27T00:26:17.063+0000)
990 AP is absolutely massive for everyone not named Veigar, even with 3 Infernals, runes and items optimized for maximum AP (which would also mean no penetration from boots).
no, it's really not. pls don't be like the last guy and say it's not possible to get 990 without infernals zzz. you can get like 600 ap with 3 items (mejai, tear, deathcap).
you also don't need to optimize shit, the same quik maff the last guy missed 6 deathcap > 990 ap, it's not even remotely hard to get over 990 with deathcap spam, and deathcap spam isn't even remotely the way to get the most AP. In 2 fucking seconds you can calculate 6 deathcaps higher than 990 ap, without infernals. Tear Mages with infernals and mega drakes etc have 1200-1600 ap.
Thefrostyviking1 votesMy statement was assuming that the person would be using a normal build fit for serious games where you arent fed to the point of rolling around instead of walking.
Even with a "high" AP item build using mejai, rab and tear and some others items you´ll land at 860 or something, and this is skipping boots.
QmegaSquadVeigar1 votesAnd it's not even hard to reach as Veigar, hell if you get a game over 40 minutes you can even get 1500 AP. But 1000 AP isn't actually that hard to get if you have gathering storm and you get 6 items and elixir.
Thefrostyviking1 votesAlright so he only does 50%+ of a squishies health by maxbuild vs low MR, or if fed.
Still plenty scary for a targeted ability that he can send at 5 people simultaneously from across the map that also needs special means to avoid it.
Ranmaru1 votesAlright so he only does 50%+ of a squishies health by maxbuild vs low MR, or if fed.
Still plenty scary for a targeted ability that he can send at 5 people simultaneously from across the map that also needs special means to avoid it.
with no bonus health added and a squishy? MINI GNAR WITH NO TANK ITEMS IS BEYOND SQUISHY TRUST ME
My Waifu Vanilla1 votesAlright I am going to hit you with some math which you may or may not want, but here is the amount of damage a Predator Karthus Ult would have done at the last minute of this game Perks had 6 hours ago. https://www.probuilds.net/guide/show/EUW/3744981965/40693701
Perks has 502 Movement Speed (so 167 bonus movement speed) during Predator during his ult channel (after all of the soft caps have been applied). This means that he has 871 AP after runes (including Celerity), his items, and the blue pot he is chugging. That puts his ult with Predator at 730+(1.0 AP)(871) or 1601 damage. Squishiest person on the enemy team is the level 17 Kaisa who has zero MR against Perks armor so she takes the entire ultimate to the face in true damage so she loses 1626 (there is an 25 extra true damage from the blue potion) out of 1923 health OR 84.5% of her health.
She DOES have a Zhonya's though so let's say she dodges the ult by using it. The next lowest health target on the enemy team is Quinn (lowest health person takes the predator damage hit). Quinn has 1978 health and a whopping 5 MR against Perks items ((39+25)*0.6)-33. This drops the damage down to 1525 after resists so 1550 after the blue pot. 1525 out of her 1978 health pool is 77% of Quinn's health.
That is A LOT of damage you cannot avoid. If either person gets hit by a breeze they die. Lee Sin Q? Dead. MF auto attack? Dead. I don't know what dragons were taken in this games, but a single infernal dragon would add ROUGHLY 70 damage per target. That's about an extra 3.5% of their health. Per infernal. So, yes, Perks WOULD have needed like 1100 AP or something to kill either champion outright with his Predator ult, but that doesn't matter when his ult on his own does 80%+ of someone's health from wherever he is on the map.
Also, for shits and giggles lets throw in a homeguard buff and triple infernal dragons because it'll be fun. Homeguards at 40 minutes is 150% bonus movement speed so that brings him up to 793 movement speed after the soft caps (458 Bonus Movement Speed). That adds about 41 AP to the mix compared to the previous movement speed so we are at 912 AP. Triple Infernal brings us to 1068 AP (Infernal is additive with Deathcap so a 64% bonus to AP). That makes our ult do a grand total of 1798 (+25 for the potion) before MR which is 94.8% of Kaisa's health bar.
Oh and btw. There isn't an Archangel's Staff in this build so this number COULD be higher if he didn't go Zhonya's and instead went double scaling.
TempName548463 votesnot even close, also now that funnel is trashed you will see a max build karthus one out of 100 games where karthus is played.
Nyarlathοtep1 votesNot without reaching shittons of ap. And even then here's my question. Why the fk you have no mr? Karthus is (in my opinion) made to force his enemies to buy AT LEAST one mr item.
Thefrostyviking1 votesReason i skipped out on calculating for extra MR is because it takes effort^^
Bârd1 votesThe only way he can do that (under normal circumstances, no DC's who are now 5 levels behind) is if he's full build, is running predator, and the enemy has a glass cannon who hasn't opted for any defenses whatsoever (HP, MR, spell shields, hourglass, barrier, lifeline, GA), plus they need to have no champions with lower HP than that squishy who could cause Predator to hit a different champion.
If he's in that situation, though... yeah that poor Jhin is gonna die a lot.
Sire Hippington1 voteswell, a good karthus befor the wall nerfs would just kill you at 3 from full if you stepped a bit to far forward in lane, and with exhaust he still can do that if you don't respect his damage.
anyway, why compare a teamfight aoe dps + zonecontroll mage with a global ult to a singletarget burst-assasin? How about fizz now summoning a shark undeneath every opponent with his ult?
3TWarrior1 votesisn't karthus a dps/poke mage and only really becomes a zone mage when dead because of the massive drain of his E ?
Sire Hippington1 votesusually he has enough mana mid-late to keep his E up for a full temafight and beyond, makeing him a walking zone. Also, his wall should never be underestimated, the slow is massive at late ranks, it shreds mr, it's instant and the range is huge.
Sire Hippington1 votesAs a someone who played alot from his release till the assasin update, i think the community uses the term '1-shot' a bit to often. unless he already had a sheen and probably was ahead or vs a really squishy target, he would not one-shot from 100-0 in one combo.
However, thx to his AA+dot dps and two mobillititie tools, if you stepped a bit to far he could all-in you 100-0 by holding his E to dodge CC and/or follow a flash while consitently AAing his target after the R+Q opening. It usually took me ~4-5 sec to kill a fullhealth squishy at 6, and only if i dodged their cc or got an opening that allowed me to save my utillity to catch up again after they blow their escape.
420 grams4 votesF
Sleepcoma4 votesSomeone died to fizz while walking into the max range shark, and who on earth takes barrier and first item buys a null magic mantle?
Dasdi965 votesSomeone died to fizz while walking into the max range shark, and who on earth takes barrier and first item buys a null magic mantle?
That's what you need to do to even have chance of surviving lane against an ap assassin without being insanely behind in cs. If you are against ad assassin you have to rush 
. Taking resolve secondary is also recommended.
Ache2 votesThat's what you need to do to even have chance of surviving lane against an ap assassin without being insanely behind in cs. If you are against ad assassin you have to rush
Don't know about Null Magic, but I take Barrier on most ADCs, Lux and Ori.
Ryusaether2 votesWhile I think you're right for taking Mantle (I hope after first back) and going Resolve can be good, Fizz shouldn't havw been able to get that Sheen if you played it out correctly. I'm ofc supposing you were using a mage, and mages do shit on him level 1-2, and if tou did shit on him there you can continue at lvl 3 etc and deny him a lot of CS and force him to back up to 2 times. So when he reaches 6 he won't be that much of a problem, but I suggest to still respect him becausw xd assassin + Ignite just doesn't care.
Sleepcoma1 votesOk? Mages are supposed to lose to assassins.
Neptunia xoxo1 votesSomeone died to fizz while walking into the max range shark, and who on earth takes barrier and first item buys a null magic mantle?
Except he does not even need to use his R to actually do 60% + of your HP if he just does his Q W E. He can also 100-0 you with just a melee range shark as well and the problem is his high ass base damage and scalings on everything which I will never understand.
Sleepcoma1 votesBut if he only has a sheen his scalings don't matter, if you're letting fizz kill you at level 6 without shark you must have lagged out or something because he doesn't do that much damage at that point in the game.
Bonipherus3 votesfizz has always been an unbalanced champ and will be as long as his e remains the way it is. needs that ability changed around to be riskier and damage nerfs. doesn't even need ult to kill you half the time.
GodlyBane2 votesthere is a reason barrier and heal were shortly pushed from pro play... DAMAGE IS TOO HIGH
Wimbledofy2 votesDid his combo include ult or no ult?
TKP B1lly2 voteswell nothing wrong here. he is supposed to deal that damage. your job is to either dodge his ulty when its up, either build defensively with early item and summoner spell (as you did). You Failed to dodge his ulty, but you had invested on defensive early game. Outcome ? in the end you didnt die and he lost one of his numbered chances of scoring a kill to get ahead and actually have an impact in the game (cd on his R).
what are u even crying about ? i dont get it.
Ziggs Kaczynski1 votesFizz used to be able to do that shit with just a flask at lvl 2/3 back in season 5
never forget old fizz: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCvfve-3ANQ
Granted his ult is much more powerful now but thats actually dodgeable
ChuShoe2 votesFizz used to be able to do that shit with just a flask at lvl 2/3 back in season 5
never forget old fizz: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCvfve-3ANQ
Granted his ult is much more powerful now but thats actually dodgeable
oh god, more like never forget old magikarpusedfly
that's cringier than a minecraft convention
would have dicked him for trying... ah the good old days xD
