If Evelynn lost her AD ratios to keep her from buiding sustained damage and healing

PopcornBunni·Jun 6, 2019·4 votes·1,227 views

Why has not lost hers, and why did keep hers (other than CertainlyT)? Akali especially abuses with her endless Qs and 10 years of true stealth to safely get back to full off any misplay she makes.

It isn't that it causes no counterplay with either because do the same with full on invisibility instead of the massive detection range camouflage Evelynn has in far more oppressive manners, both having much higher AD ratios than Old Evelynn ever did on top of it.

21 Comments

The EcdysiastJun 6, 20194 votes

Hey.

Don't forget the fact Katarina is now building Death's Dance on top of Gunblade since they changed the passive to all damage instead of just physical damage.

I'm surprised Akali isn't doing the same, honestly.

RagnaveilJun 6, 20191 votes

Its probably due to the fact its pretty expensive and seems unappealing to Akali players. Kat can easily abuse it because she does a shit ton of DPS.

The EcdysiastJun 6, 20191 votes

I think the main reason is that the actual execute part of her ultimate doesn't scale AD, only the initial stun. So having more AP is always better.

RagnaveilJun 6, 20191 votes

That too.

Whyskered WyrmJun 6, 20194 votes

{quoted}

Akali especially abuses with her endless Qs and 10 years of true stealth to safely get back to full off any misplay she makes.

True stealth was removed from her.

PopcornBunniJun 6, 20191 votes

It's still true stealth compared to other invisibility and prevents her from being targeted by anything other than the turret itself while under it. It also makes her untargetable via Rengar or TwistedFate ults.

Z3SleeperJun 6, 20192 votes

True stealth is actually still on her. It just doesn’t hide from turrets now.

It’s actually separate from normal invisibility as stealth reveal skills (ex. Lee Sin Q) do not make her targetable like other invisibility class stealth champions.

Essentially, true stealth as a mechanic was changed rather than Akali herself. True stealth as a mechanic no longer hides from turrets, but true stealth still exists and is only present in Akali right now.

LordGeovanniJun 6, 20191 votes

She still has true stealth except versus towers. Leesin q and e cant reveal her thats true stealth

The EcdysiastJun 6, 20194 votes

Akali did lose her healing.

Evelynn has an entirely different strength from any other champion in the game. She's essentially immune to normal ward coverage. They needed to cut down how often she survives a poor engage so she can't just be unseen all the time but unkillable when you find her-- or she finds you.

PopcornBunniJun 6, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Ecdysiast,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2mMURBRf,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-06-06T19:05:09.802+0000)

Akali did lose her healing.

I'm not talking about the base healing on the ability itself but thanks for coming in to downvote and leave pointless non sequiturs.

Evelynn has an entirely different strength from any other champion in the game. She's essentially immune to normal ward coverage. They needed to cut down how often she survives a poor engage so she can't just be unseen all the time but unkillable when you find her-- or she finds you.

Except every other champion with stronger invisibility is not only immune to normal ward coverage, but to item 2055 as well. Unless you mean to say every lane is building the support item lines to ward their side river brush, the enemy side river brush, and well into the river itself to spot them before they get in range to stealth.

The EcdysiastJun 6, 20192 votes

If you aren't talking about her base healing, then you aren't talking about Akali. Your complaint is with Gunblade, not the champion.

Yes, when up against a champion with stealth besides Evelynn, good players ward deeper so they can actually see the enemy coming. Against Evelynn, though, that's not an option. And the whole team can only have 5 wards that can reveal her at any given time, nevermind the fact they're also visible to the enemy and so are easier to destroy.

Like I said, she isn't allowed to build self-sustain because she has a strength other champions lack and doesn't need that on top. Akali isn't a jungler and Akali doesn't shroud the entire map.

PopcornBunniJun 7, 20191 votes

If you aren't talking about her base healing, then you aren't talking about Akali. Your complaint is with Gunblade, not the champion

Yes thank you for noticing. See the first sentence of the original post. If Eve can't have AD because it would let her build gunblade sustain when she's meant to be a pure assassin, neither should Akali or Kat.

The EcdysiastJun 7, 20191 votes

Well, no, because Eve has other strengths they don't. Case closed.

lolipopevelynnJun 6, 20193 votes

eve doesnt need sustain, she has a warmog passive.

??????????????????

PopcornBunniJun 7, 20191 votes

I mean you aren't wrong. In a sense that is part of what I'm saying though. She was changed to be a pure AP assassin (and thus forced into the same 6 items in every god damn game forever) to keep her from extended engagements, but because of her passive she can still just stick around after a bad engage and regen to 80+% for a reengage as soon as her spells are off cooldown.

The only thing removing the AD from her kit did was make her as inflexible as every other AP assassin.

SukishooJun 6, 20192 votes

They said somewhere that if Kat was a champion from today, she'd actually scale in AD rather than AP. So keeping her the way she is, is well she's been that way since release and people are just used too it. They aren't going to change that part of her.

Eve was always meant to be an AP Assassin, but since she had such high scaling in AD in the past they had to change that with her VGU as people overused it and her AP side was dead previously.

PopcornBunniJun 6, 20191 votes

AD was stronger at more disorganized levels but AP was better for a full RWEQQQ burst on key targets and with better team support. AD performed better at lower levels because it was less reliant on that team followup or the specific target access of her AP build. On-hit was sort of the in-between since the items for it left her very squishy but able to rip through multiple targets.

I don't even mean to say she should have AD ratios everywhere, or even especially high ones, but just enough to be more akin to the flexible hybrid stalking option she was before.

vimaidJun 6, 20191 votes

I like Evelyn but she does need a buff imo

PopcornBunniJun 6, 20191 votes

I don't think she needs a buff. Indicated by her top 3 jg position for the past year and a half it would appear the exact opposite. She is really oppressive atm once Evelynn players get good enough to remove what was meant to be her counterplay. Namely her W prep time and arrow indicator. Done properly she will Q to hit them the instant the charm is fully primed, revealing her self before the arrow does. If she were to recieve extra AD scaling even on just her E it would require retweeking the more problematic elements of the WQ combo.

There's also the issue where late game comes along and she doesn't even need to fully prime W and can just EQR instagib squishies, only needing to charm for the MR shred on tankier carries she shouldn't be targeting in the first place.

Some combination of an earlier arrow indicator during the charm prep, shorter Q1 range, and less MR shred would open up a lot of power budget since she would have more meaningful counterplay. For E specifically getting an AD ratio, it would also need lower base damage by rank (The flat damage portion). If it was purely a portion of her total AD or a stronger scaling from bonus AD, it would result in the same situation as before where a pure AD build would overshadow the use of hybrid or on-hit AP items like item 3115 item 3100 . With a combination of flat damage and total AD scaling, it scales worse with high AD stacking but better with the first few extra AD.

So, with the extra budget personally I'd go for 5 extra base movement speed for her pathing (bringing it to the same as before her rework and up to fellow jg assassin Kayn 's, a 50% total AD ratio on her weak E's flat damage (55/70/85/100/115 -> 25/40/55/60/75 +50% tAD) and a 75% total AD ratio on her empowered E's flat damage (75/100/125/150/175 ->30/45/60/75/90 +75% tAD), and apply two on-hits from her empowered E to targets hit.

boricCentaur1Jun 6, 20191 votes

Because those champions were always like that and design to be somewhat hybrids whereas eve was NEVER like that. The only people going ad on old eve were trolls no one else.

PopcornBunniJun 7, 20191 votes

On the one hand people say AD was the meme joke build for her, and others say

{quoted}

Eve was always meant to be an AP Assassin, but since she had such high scaling in AD in the past they had to change that with her VGU as people overused it and her AP side was dead previously.

The truth is that she built differently depending on what was needed for her team or changed builds mid-game since she was so adaptable. Essentially the antithesis of her current kit and scaling.

The reason her kit could work with an AP, AD, Hybrid, or On-hit build is because it had synergies with each. And the reason for all those different pulls is because of her passive -- She was, and still is, the only champion to be able to permanently stalk targets from stealth, and because I don't foresee Riot adding in an AD or on-hit focused permastealth champion, they let her be that AD champion OR that on-hit champion OR that AP champion. The core to her identity was the permanent stalking, She definitely deserved a rework since the only other iconic thing in her kit was QQQQQ spam to chase or kit targets, but I am still not convinced shifting her to a purely magic damage focused slayer was the correct choice, let alone removing all hybrid scaling entirely, especially when that scaling was so core to her appeal compared to others which kept hybrid ratios in their reworks -- Warwick Skarner Kayle Irelia .