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Can we just gut Lee Sin? His ult does too much damage for something with zero counterplay

Yenn·Feb 10, 2019·2 votes·1,147 views

This big LC$ outplay cost me my turret at 9 minutes. I'm literally under my turret at full health and there is nothing I can do to stop them from killing me in 1 second.

https://imgur.com/ib2wY0k

Not pictured: this is his third fucking attempt at doing this. The other two times he tried to do it with a ward hop, but was slightly out of range and missed his Q. It costs him nothing but a trinket ward to fuck up his combo. Then he came back a minute later and just flashed into me, instead of bothering with the ward hop.

This is fucking ridiculous. It happens literally every time I'm playing against a Lee Sin as an immobile caster, and I know it's going to happen, and I can't do anything to stop it. I can keep chickens warded, but I can't defend the ward, and then he can just come back a minute later; if I try to defend it while he clears it, he'll just do this to me.

15 Comments

DuskDaUmbreonFeb 10, 20192 votes

Imagine having to actually ward the map and pay attention to things to not die.

You got outplayed. Zed tanked your combo since he knew you lacked the damage needed to kill him, and it let Lee dive you because you had no way to respond, since your Q was on cooldown. Not to mention how Zed set up the dive by getting minions right up to your turret. The minions you ignored in order to try to combo Zed.

Ward the red-side jungle entrance next time, and don't throw your abilities that you need to survive out if you don't know where the guy who can set up a kill on you is.

xDogMeatxFeb 10, 20191 votes

i dont think he set it up i think it was a accident to get snared on zeds part but lee sin responded as soon as he hit 6. so he got wiped out. by zeds ult after lee sins ult. 2ndly there was counterplay between 0:05 and :07 flash that moment so he couldnt have pushed lux into kill range and lee sin was in sight before nocturne ult went off. EDIT: wait hold on thats your her nocturne ult wtf she coulda flashed sideways towards tower outta sight.

DuskDaUmbreonFeb 10, 20191 votes

Might have been an accident, might have been on purpose. Probably meant to dodge it but knew he could tank it anyways.

OP had no flash, though. And Noc was on his team, so the enemy team pulled this off almost blind lmao.

xDogMeatxFeb 10, 20192 votes

lee sin was already blind so he had nothing to worry about. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdjxmsCKN0g

DuskDaUmbreonFeb 10, 20192 votes

True. And it made Zed even more OP, because everywhere was shadow

xDogMeatxFeb 10, 20192 votes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjA98SWhuFQ

YennFeb 10, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Imagine having to actually ward the map and pay attention to things to not die.

You got outplayed. Zed tanked your combo since he knew you lacked the damage needed to kill him, and it let Lee dive you because you had no way to respond, since your Q was on cooldown. Not to mention how Zed set up the dive by getting minions right up to your turret. The minions you ignored in order to try to combo Zed.

Ward the red-side jungle entrance next time, and don't throw your abilities that you need to survive out if you don't know where the guy who can set up a kill on you is.

> Imagine having to actually ward the map and pay attention to things to not die.

Imagine if you could read the post. My ward at chickens is constantly cleared. I cannot defend it and I don't have unlimited wards. Completely leaving the lane every time he clears my ward is not an option, I'll never get CS.

> Zed tanked your combo since he knew you lacked the damage needed to kill him

Zed tried to trade with me using his W and missed, so I punished him. If I leave him at full health, he'll roam to side lanes and pick up kills, which is significantly worse than me being dived. Aside from that, he can 100 to 0 me under my turret if my Barrier is down. Keeping him below max health prevents him from blowing my Barrier. Not interacting with Zed is not an option.

> and it let Lee dive you because you had no way to respond, since your Q was on cooldown.

Wrong again, I couldn't have responded either way. Lee only used half of his Flash range, not the full Flash range. I had vision of him for maybe 1/4 of a second, at which point he could have flashed over my Q, or just flashed before he entered vision. Best case scenario, Lee is bound while kicking me and nothing of value is gained.

> Not to mention how Zed set up the dive by getting minions right up to your turret. The minions you ignored in order to try to combo Zed.

This is completely irrelevant. Now you're just making shit up, or you actually have zero understanding of the game. The minions don't matter. They can do this even if the minions are at his turret.

Also, Lee's R + Q combo took about 70% of my max health without the Barrier. It was not mostly Zed.

Get out of here with your armchair analysis, you clearly lack understanding of how the game works.

ParoeFeb 10, 20191 votes

{quoted} Also, Lee's R + Q combo took about 70% of my max health without the Barrier. It was not mostly Zed.

Lees R Q1 Q2 combo did 50% of your health plus whatever your barrier was worth and then some.
Zed pressed R and point blank QE'd to finish you off.

Once lee got his R off on you, there was absolutely nothing you could do since lees R has a stun to ensure youre hit in addition to a knockback that lets him land his Q1 and Q2 100% of the time (unless hes bad and just misses). Lee-sin is a bonafide assassin at this point, building 400+AD with 40% CDR and roflstomping squishies with his massive 450+1.0bAD ult and 210+1.6 bAD Q.

xDogMeatxFeb 10, 20191 votes

nerf the trinket interaction with him thats all i can say. plus you got 2 wayed by a zed and a lee sin so your gonna die regardless no matter how nerfed lee sins numbers are. buff wards nerf his interaction with them.

DuskDaUmbreonFeb 10, 20191 votes

Yeah. OP doesn't understand that Zed did all of the work there. Lee was basically a support in that instance lmao.

EDIT: No I'm not saying ADCs do all the work. Lee got his combo off, which did decent damage and set up the play for Zed. What I meant was the lesser damage and more playmaking part of support.

xDogMeatxFeb 10, 20191 votes

true

KFCeytronFeb 10, 20191 votes

It took them over two seconds to kill you, not one (starting from when Lee ulted you), and the fight was a melee assassin plus a melee fighter against a squishy mage. And it cost them two ults and a Flash.

YennFeb 10, 20191 votes

{quoted}

It took them over two seconds to kill you, not one (starting from when Lee ulted you), and the fight was a melee assassin plus a melee fighter against a squishy mage. And it cost them two ults and a Flash.

It took one second, the video is slowed down. They didn't need the Zed ult or the Flash, they were just bad players. It should have only cost them Lee Sin's ult.

One ult should not result in an unavoidable zero counterplay death.

KFCeytronFeb 10, 20191 votes

{quoted}

It took one second, the video is slowed down. They didn't need the Zed ult or the Flash, they were just bad players. It should have only cost them Lee Sin's ult.

One ult should not result in an unavoidable zero counterplay death.

It took a little over 4 seconds of video time while the match was being replayed at 0.5x.

Facts are facts: they spent two ults and a Flash to kill you. Maybe they saw you as a major threat and didn't want to leave it to chance.

xDogMeatxFeb 10, 20191 votes

zed is like "your already dead" after she snares him she sees lee sin... lux: NANI? proceeds to get blown up by 2 ults and a flash.

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