People focus too much on damage and not enough on counterplay

Cloud273·Aug 18, 2019·3 votes·1,764 views

If a Nidalee ever lands a javelin and does good damage to you, that's SUPER broken and needs to be nerfed ASAP, but a Talon, Zed, or Fizz right clicking and one shotting u is all well and good. I literally don't give a sht if a skillshot one shots me, because at least there's counterplay to it, unlike a champ who just right clicks you and does tons of damage. We need to focus less on how much damage abilities do, and more on how much counterplay those abilities actually have. People btch about Yasuo every day (because god forbid he ever lands a few 'q's), but apparently Annie or Kennen pressing 'r' and deleting your entire team is SOOO much healthier, since no one ever complains about them.

10 Comments

Moody PAug 18, 20194 votes

Zed has the highest TTK of any assassin and gives you 3 whole seconds to find a way to survive him

Fizz entire viability is based around his horrible ultimate which is a skillshot

At least complain about the actual stupid assassins who click nuke you like khazix and rengar who don't have any of their assassination damage gated behind their ultimate

Cloud273Aug 18, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2fyK8YhA,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-08-18T22:42:31.991+0000)

Zed has the highest TTK of any assassin and gives you 3 whole seconds to find a way to survive him

Fizz entire viability is based around his horrible ultimate which is a skillshot

At least complain about the actual stupid assassins who click nuke you like khazix and rengar who don't have any of their assassination damage gated behind their ultimate

First of all this isn't about Zed and Fizz. I just used them as examples. And Kha'zix and Rengar actually have more counterplay that Zed and Fizz. Kha'zix relies on the isolation mechanic for the most damage, so if an ally is nearby he doesn't hurt nearly as much. Rengar warns you when he's nearby and he has no escape after he goes in, so it's a lot easier to punish him after he dives your backline. You can also dodge Rengar's damage abilities so there's that too. The only thing that really makes him annoying is his passive. Fizz uses playful/trickster and there's NOTHING you can do about it. Zed presses 'r', and you can'd do anything. Kha'zix and Rengar are way easier to deal with than Zed or Fizz. There's a reason why they both have less than 50% winrate right now.

https://champion.gg/statistics/#?sortBy=general.winPercent&order=descend

Hayaishi2Aug 19, 20192 votes

{quoted}

First of all this isn't about Zed and Fizz. I just used them as examples. And Kha'zix and Rengar actually have more counterplay that Zed and Fizz. Kha'zix relies on the isolation mechanic for the most damage, so if an ally is nearby he doesn't hurt nearly as much. Rengar warns you when he's nearby and he has no escape after he goes in, so it's a lot easier to punish him after he dives your backline. You can also dodge Rengar's damage abilities so there's that too. The only thing that really makes him annoying is his passive. Fizz uses playful/trickster and there's NOTHING you can do about it. Zed presses 'r', and you can'd do anything. Kha'zix and Rengar are way easier to deal with than Zed or Fizz. There's a reason why they both have less than 50% winrate right now.

https://champion.gg/statistics/#?sortBy=general.winPercent&order=descend

K6 doesnt even rely on isolation anymore, he oneshots without it.

MordepoolAug 19, 20192 votes

But he's a riot favorite, so don't expect them to add counterplay.

Posui GartAug 18, 20193 votes

People btch about Yasuo every day (because god forbid he ever lands a few 'q's)

EQ exists and can't be dodged unless you flash/dash away. EQ-flash exists for some dumb reason and can't be countered at all unless Yasuo player messes it up or you somehow predict that he will do it and flash/dash away Zed at least needs to land his Qs if he is not fed And if Annie deleted your entire team with her combo, you are probably in bronze. She has no range, no mobility, her lane strength is worse than Veigar's, and her only combo is too predictable

MordepoolAug 19, 20192 votes

AA damage has very low counter play, and the ability to counterbuild item 1029 is Laughably bad ( due to tank assassins)

Bandaid solution to festering & gangrenous problems.

Its time they implement class item restrictions.

MordepoolAug 19, 20192 votes

Vayne needs counter play.

Daddy AntsAug 19, 20191 votes

{quoted}

needs counter play.

Has counterplay.

Just like every other champion in the game.

No champ is unbeatable.

Ninjas FlossingAug 19, 20192 votes

at some point this man stopped caring about italics. legends say you can, to this day, pinpoint the exact letter he gave up on...

CurS1VEAug 19, 20191 votes

hmmm after i go through this and the comments I don't actually see what your premise is.

you compared some Assassin champs who are built to 1 shot in 1 rotation, to Mages who can Burst 1 shot in 1 rotation?

Then you say something like it's not about the damage but the lack of counter play..I don't understand considering you gave examples of Damage from Assassins that are in their own right extremely tough to kill and have a kit designed to be slippery, to 2 Mages who after they blow their load are basically free kills unless they have flash..Kennen is slightly less free since he can increase movespeed but that's nothing compared to a Zed Shadow or Talon E.

Are you saying that Assassins should be able to kill multiple people at once? (Katarina?) or that mages shouldn't? If a Mage can't kill someone or multiple people at once then why would anyone play a mage? Wouldn't they all just play Assassins since it would be less risk and similar payout?

I'm pretty sure that by Design, Mages are suppose to be able to do damage to multiple ppl with abilities and have less ways to escape after they use those abilities, while a Assassins job is to target 1 person at a time and kill them and get out.

could you elaborate on what you are exactly saying?

btw, if someone is extremely fed then it literally doesn't matter what champ they are playing so long as it's something with damage, they will be able to 1 v 9 and make you feel worthless.