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So we can drop the ad assassin meta any time now.....

The thigh guy··45 votes·12,311 views

Its literally only fun for the person playing the assassin. Its not like they are outplaying anyone, its not like they just have better mechanics.... no its this watered down garbage fire champ, that just got all its counterplay options gutted.

I mean look at rengar what does he do? he makes himself invisible, runs at one person and instant kills them with no time to react? he didnt "outplay them", he just picked someone with no counterplay and abused it.

Zed, he w's r's and dives you under 2 turrets, uses his instant speed combo with one auto attack, and then dashes back before you can react?

fizz, point and click one bang

talon, hit a large cone skillshot, stealth underneath you, auto and dead.

Sure you can buy a zhonya's. you cut your deaths in half? congratz? they are gonna try again in 30 seconds because they never got punished for diving you in the middle of your team.

you cant stack armor, cause between all the flat pen, lethality, %armor pen and black cleaver being a freakin thing if you have less than 300 armor you may as well have zero armor.

i dont have a solution, but this is getting ridiculous. ADC is already unplayable, mages are getting there now to. what are we suppose to do? vlad is perma banned ( because hard counter the assassins) tanks dont work against them anymore because they get resistances and health for some god forsaken reason from their assassin items. you cant just spam hard cc at them because they buy merc treads and can use quick silver sash.

Maybe make assassins all like kha. yeah he gets a ton of damage. when you are alone (ie out of position) but this "oh i picked rengar so you dont get to play" is stupid.

59 Comments

Andevar9 votes

Why did you make a post about AD Assassins but include Fizz, an AP?

Madsin258 votes

We are not in an AD assassin meta. We are in a BURST meta. Which AD assassins conveniently do really well.

koshkyra2 votes

This.

zarxus12343 votes

{quoted}

We are not in an AD assassin meta. We are in a BURST meta. Which AD assassins conveniently do really well.

No.. if we were in a burst meta you would see mages doing well too. Considering they are mostly burst champions.

Dorans Pants8 votes

playing against a mage ----> hope you don´t fuck up

playing against an assassin ----> hope your team doesn´t fuck up

DW Diana4 votes

Fix malzahar and Lissandra and the hypermobile hyper carries (not JUST assassins) will return to being good but not the only thing viable. They don't need NERFS, they need COUNTERS.

DNFVixen11 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lord Loki1987,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2Y5lYOEP,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-07-01T15:31:29.232+0000)

Fix malzahar and Lissandra and the hypermobile hyper carries (not JUST assassins) will return to being good but not the only thing viable. They don't need NERFS, they need COUNTERS.

no everything they changed in the last 2 years needs reverts/nerfs

Ayzev4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lord Loki1987,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2Y5lYOEP,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-07-01T15:31:29.232+0000)

malzahar and Lissandra need COUNTERS

item 3140

DW Diana2 votes

{quoted}

item 3140

Lol first when you decide to change what someone has said to clarify make sure you understand what they've said. I wasn't saying Malz and Lissandra needed counters, I was saying hypermobile hyper carries do, and by fixing malz and Lissandra the hypermobile hyper carries won't need nerfing.

Second yes QSS is a nice counter to both of those. Sadly because you misunderstood the initial comment this also has nothing to do with it.

Ayzev2 votes

Alright, I kinda goofed. But still, if some champions need nerfs and you weaken their counters, that will make them need nerfs more, not less. And fixing two specific champions won't fix dozens of others, especially when the two have lower than average pick rates.

DW Diana1 votes

{quoted}

Alright, I kinda goofed.

Goof number two then?

But still, if some champions need nerfs and you weaken their counters, that will make them need nerfs more, not less.

If a champion is really strong and you FIX their counters then you will naturally have made that champion more balanced.

E.G. Yasuo is a hypermobile hyper carry and is normally countered by Malzahar. Malzahar cannot counter Yasuo at the moment because riot threw a load of nerfs at him after a bad mini rework last year screwed his kit so now Yasuo can run around causing havoc without fear or recourse. If they FIX Malzahar (revert him to his 2016 kit) then he would counter yasuo again, meaning yasuo can no longer steamroll everything.

And fixing two specific champions won't fix dozens of others, especially when the two have lower than average pick rates.

Actually it really can. There don't have to be many champions that counter hypermobile hypercarries for them to fall out of favour. Most people are playing them because they don't really see any other alternative; the best thing to counter a hypermobile hypercarry right now is.... a hypermobile hypercarry. Add just one other champion that ISN'T a hypermobile hypercarry and HIS counters become viable as well (which in Malzahar's case is mages like Vel'koz, Xerath and syndra), at which point THEIR counter become more viable as well (Galio, kassadin etc). Also those that can go even are ok again as well meaning your midlane pool has grown overall from about 6-7 champions to about 20-30 champions.

The current pick rate on those two champions is because they effectively cannot do their job, and therefore aren't worth picking. Like elise in the jungle, they are just BAD right now. Once they are fixed (reverted/buffed/reworked) their pick rate will increase drastically to counter the current meta as they were designed to do before, and will eventually return back to the 7% ish (at least in Malzahar's case) they were at last season.

hope this helps explain this a little better.

  • Loki -
Daddy Ants1 votes

{quoted}

item 3140

Malzahar - item 3140

Lissandra - item 3140 item 3222 (Her R is a stun, not suppression)

koshkyra2 votes

Also summoner 1 for liss

wildfox994 votes

if you are an AP? [sg-lulu]

Emo Twink4 votes

Then perish [sg-jinx]

Violet Fields3 votes

I agree.

Kled item 3748 item 3071 item 3147 item 3142 item 3026 item 3047

This is too damn fun to play.

Seer of Mind3 votes

Be me Lock in Renekton since team needs tank 15 mins into the game, team is doing well I'm 5/1/3 with Titanic hydra and Tabis, working on steraks Zed goes MIA I see Zed walk over my ward so I go back to my turret to recall Zed W's, Ult's me, Q and E's me, he presses w to go back over the wall I died.

This is what we call true balance.

Lumendo2 votes

Zed goes MIA

You see Zed walk over your ward so you back off and get your cooldowns back

Zed W's, Ults you, you press W and AA him after he reappears, you only get hit by his E because your AA animation is considerably faster than his

You E away while hes stunned, he Q's, you dodge it but even if you don't his E and Q after ult are not enough to kill you and the Q from the R shadow is out of range

He R's out since he has no way to close the gap anymore

You lived.

goodiesohhi3 votes

{quoted}

Be me Lock in Renekton since team needs tank 15 mins into the game, team is doing well I'm 5/1/3 with Titanic hydra and Tabis, working on steraks Zed goes MIA I see Zed walk over my ward so I go back to my turret to recall Zed W's, Ult's me, Q and E's me, he presses w to go back over the wall I died.

This is what we call true balance.

If you locked in renekton because team needed tank, I'm not sure how credible the rest of your post is going to be. Why didn't you lock in a... Hmm idk tank?

Seer of Mind1 votes

renekton can be pretty tanky? His ulti gives him more health and the aura which is good for team fights..

Automated Riven2 votes

Every assassin needs you to be out of position in order to kill you. Or just have you not having peel I suppose.

SithesisLord1 votes

Or buy a item 3147 and turn off their brains.

Automated Riven4 votes

You have never tried to be zed or talon into a competent support who took exaust have you.

EasternBladeStar11 votes

"Don't play the game, sit at fountain and you're safe from Rengar."

wildfox995 votes

you're not if he's enough fed

Keshaun2 votes

Meddler said the control mages that got absolutely gutted in the mage update were likely getting buffs next patch and that the assassins were going to get nerfed so hopefully it looks better next patch bud!

Bumperlane2 votes

Because riot are morons, plain and simple.

Misses Old Talon2 votes

"hit a large cone skillshot, stealth underneath you, auto and dead." So where is Talon getting his bleed in this example? Unless you're somehow to slow to react on a 2 second delay rake.

The thigh guy1 votes

[{quoted}](name=ShoutCaster Yi,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2Y5lYOEP,comment-id=000d,timestamp=2018-07-02T08:50:38.412+0000)

"hit a large cone skillshot, stealth underneath you, auto and dead." So where is Talon getting his bleed in this example? Unless you're somehow to slow to react on a 2 second delay rake.

The intial hit slows you, and he has a dash into melee range of a champ. without a mobility spell or flash you cannot escape his combo.

Misses Old Talon1 votes

{quoted}

The intial hit slows you, and he has a dash into melee range of a champ. without a mobility spell or flash you cannot escape his combo.

Uh.. thats completely false. It slows coming back. That's the only time it slows.

VG Crows2 votes

Honestly fuck asssasins and fuck Riot's favouritism to AD damage dealers in general. Nothing in this season favours AP mages as much as it favours assasins: runes, weekly item tweaks for AD, ridiculous damage everywhere. Meanwhile mages take FOREVER to change or buff. Immobiles suffer at the moment. I can't play shit on mid today, simply because it's infested with AD trash.

GripaAviara1 votes

Ahaha, lol.

Brand, Veigar, Vlad, Maltz - all destroying their lane, nullfying champs like zed with 1 item because they dont even need obscene AP to dominate

Hexs Fortune2 votes

This is a mobile non-crit AD meta

If you have strong target access and don't need to rely on crit you are in for a good time.

remakoro1 votes

Its literally only fun for the person playing the assassin. Its not like they are outplaying anyone, its not like they just have better mechanics.... no its this watered down garbage fire champ, that just got all its counterplay options gutted. I mean look at rengar what does he do? he makes himself invisible, runs at one person and instant kills them with no time to react? he didnt "outplay them", he just picked someone with no counterplay and abused it.

Yea you cant say he outplayed anyone. He can do what he has to without outplaying anyone. But its not like he has no counterplay. Most of the options for it in supports hands though. So its insanely dumb when anyone starts crying about supports "nullifying" assassins.

Shablagoo1 votes

This is a rant, rengar isnt invis he is camo, he has a warning sigh over his head. Mages can stun you and oneshot one person too, that what a burst mage does too, I dont understand what your point is.

wildfox993 votes

a mage have to hit SKILLHOTS,they have less/no escape,less target access,they are not resourceless or almost and can get punished

Emo Twink4 votes

And its not like rengar has CC removal or anything [sg-lulu]

Shablagoo3 votes

Do you play rengar? He only saves it if he knows he wont oneshot his champion, and if he needs to kill the target for the fight he will use his empowered q for the dmg. Also it removes one form of cc timed well, also he is still immobile. Rengar is a extremely immobile champion compared to most assassins.

Shablagoo1 votes

I never said they didnt I am specifially talking about the burst in generally. Not to mention rengar has no escape because he will use his empowered q for the dmg, if he fails he is as immobile as most mages? So i dont see your point.

wildfox991 votes

yet he have more target acces (his ult and leap),he have more targeted damage and his W (even when not empowered) makes him a bit more tanky,all thing that mages don't have

i never said an assassin always have all the characteristics that i mentioned,i said that mages don't have them

Shablagoo1 votes

No shit he has more target access, because his only and main job is to kill his target? Now lets look at mages, they have dmg, some offer some form of utility to the team. Some mages have things that assassins have and some assassins have things that mages dont. That is because there is a difference in playstyle. Mages dont fall off late game as much compared to assassins. Mages get pen access faster then ad assassins theres doesnt scale. Also regardless of if they have mobility or not they are still affected by cc so I am still not getting your point.

W is only afffective if you build tank, yes it helps at times, if used correctly but it wont provide any meaningful tankiness. I dont get how people who probably have never played rengar are arguing to me about my main doesnt make much sense.

The thigh guy2 votes

{quoted}

This is a rant, rengar isnt invis he is camo, he has a warning sigh over his head. Mages can stun you and oneshot one person too, that what a burst mage does too, I dont understand what your point is.

Here's the big differenece. a burst mage gets cc. so the tried and true strat of kitting them, or avoiding their burst zone still works. every assassin has some kind of mobility, or stealth that gets them in.

And rengar's warning above you head means nothing. He is going to one hit you under turret with just a tiamat and a dirk, then use his damage reduction and healing from his w to walk away unscathed.

Shablagoo1 votes

Yes mobility that if the use they wont be able to use for a long time. For example when rengar jumps at you any form of knock up will disjoint the leap leaving him literally in the middle of a fight with no real means to get at you. Just like cc works on master yi if you focus him it works on assassins too, in fact its easier because they dont get invulnerable. Rengar has no mobility unless your fighting in bushes, other then his ult. As for other assassins cc works on them if they are immobile or mobile, thats why champions like malz counters them because hard cc counters alot of champions assassins being a class that gets countered by it a lot. Guess what mages for the most part have some form of hard cc, if times well.

As for rengar is that how it appears to people who play good rengar players? You understand that if he starts to leap you as he is coming close to you, you can flash or zhonya's and his whole combo is messed up. And he only gets the w cleanse if he has fulll ferocity and guess what he has to hit you with everything to get this. Also the head warning is huge especially in teamfights, the screen dims too, it basically means protect your carry. Rengar has no damage reduction too, so again you and almost everyone here have never played rengar before so just stop talking.

The thigh guy1 votes

{quoted}

Yes mobility that if the use they wont be able to use for a long time. For example when rengar jumps at you any form of knock up will disjoint the leap leaving him literally in the middle of a fight with no real means to get at you. Just like cc works on master yi if you focus him it works on assassins too, in fact its easier because they dont get invulnerable. Rengar has no mobility unless your fighting in bushes, other then his ult. As for other assassins cc works on them if they are immobile or mobile, thats why champions like malz counters them because hard cc counters alot of champions assassins being a class that gets countered by it a lot. Guess what mages for the most part have some form of hard cc, if times well.

As for rengar is that how it appears to people who play good rengar players? You understand that if he starts to leap you as he is coming close to you, you can flash or zhonya's and his whole combo is messed up. And he only gets the w cleanse if he has fulll ferocity and guess what he has to hit you with everything to get this. Also the head warning is huge especially in teamfights, the screen dims too, it basically means protect your carry. Rengar has no damage reduction too, so again you and almost everyone here have never played rengar before so just stop talking.

you missed the whole, they can buy qss and almost always get merc treads. and most of their combos are instant. so zed for example, w - r - q -e auto r back to shadow. this happen in under a second and is almost unpunishable unless someone on your team has godlike reflexs.

Heres a good solution for zed. remove his ability to dash back to where he started with his r. Then when he dives into a 5 man pile he can actually be punished.

Heres a good one for rengar. REMOVE HIS FREE TANK STATS, then he cant escape.

The point is assassins are diving into teams and killing squishies that arent even out of position and getting out because they aren't punishable. hence why i say assassins should all have the kha treatment. their damages should be reduced when allies are near, and have almost no chance of being beaten 1v1.

Shablagoo1 votes

Merc does nothing for knock ups, qss removes one form of cc. And if you get hit by a ANY champions full combo you deserve to die, no question its the same as getting hit by a mages full combo or a jugger you should die. For burst oriented champions its the exact same thing except you die faster, the same thing happens why you get hit by lux's full combo. If Zed hits both q's and you dont have zhonyas you are dead man, to bad. And when he dives into 5 ppl he gets fking cc'd and focused man how ridiculous can you get man. Yes lets remove the one aspect that makes him a assassins thats a good idea this is a rant cuz u lost to zed mid because you got counter picked as lux jush shush man.

Tank stats? you mean the double w that acts as his only escape because he is actually as immobile as a mage when he has no bushes or ult on him sure lets remove that, lets remove the only aspect that allows him to function as a semi assassin. Man I dont think you have good ideas at all, if an assasin is diving your entire team and isnt getting punished, how is that the champions fault. You are completely removing responsibility from your teams lack of skills, awareness, or even game knowledge which is insane. The ideas you are coming up with shows why Riot doesnt and shouldnt listen to the boards.

koshkyra1 votes

i dont really have a solution

Electrocute Base Damage: 50-220 >>> 25-200

Daddy Ants1 votes

{quoted}

Electrocute Base Damage: 50-220 >>> 25-200

Electrocute's scalings are insane

50% bonus ad + 30% AP

???????????

koshkyra1 votes

On top of 50 base damage at level 1, 5x what thunderlords was.

(It's 20% AP btw)

The thigh guy1 votes

{quoted}

Electrocute Base Damage: 50-220 >>> 25-200

or remove the lethality from dirk.

Butterwood1 votes

I played two games in a row yesterday as adc and the other team had Nocturne both games. Stopwatch delayed him killing me, and GA made it so he could kill me twice, but no matter what if he ulted I was dead. Several times this happened under tower surrounded by teammates. Some AD assassins just have no counterplay with the amount of burst damage the game encourages right now and it makes it so that only tanks and assassins matter.

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