I think that in order for support items to be strong enough to match solo laner gold

Z3Sleeper·Jan 6, 2018·37 votes·2,463 views

They have to be so broken that even solo laners buy them. This is pretty much what is happening right now.

59 Comments

sadaiblastJan 6, 201834 votes

Make supports finally able to have enough gold to be on par with the budgets of other laners, they have to be busted enough for every one to try and abuse

Make items cheap but low on stats so that supports would be able to afford them on their budget, everybody buys these items to abuse their active items

really all riot can do is make support kits be able to work off the bare minimum or else shit like this happens.

but I mean as soon as supports go over the line... should i bring up last season for supports or do ya got the idea

as far as league of legends goes, supports aren't the utility source for the team or anything, at this point their just bitches for the ADC more or less until you go higher up on the ladder where that becomes more debateable

AstroFerrari Jan 6, 20182 votes

I've only been playing this game since the very end of season 4 but that whole Ardent sensor carnival was the most spotlight I had seen supports get in awhile.

Perhaps specific items that reward gold income for saving teammates from death or the like should be introduced (I think Knight's vow does this but without the gold income).

sadaiblastJan 6, 201813 votes

Unfortunately the thing with support's is that unless you're playing a play-making support, you're always going to be just an unsung hero while the rest of your teammates take the credit for your plays, and in the end thats one of the things that comes with playing supports (i mained botlane ADC and supp for 2 seasons now, I've seen this from both perspectives, and over the 8 seasons I've been playing this game for, supports have unfortunately been like this for the most part)

the problem with said item is that again, it would be abused by really any champion and it's just going to add on to the problem already stated above. For supports, the reward isn't in being given something for saving their teammates, their reward is winning said fight because they saved their teammates strategically. Really for what you're thinking about, there is already an item or two in the game that rewards you in the way i described for saving your teamates, those being mikaels and redemption, I'm more than convinced that most of the community forgotten the existence of mikaels because holy shit this thing is overloaded for many supports yet at the same time butt fuck nobody buys that item, even just for the stats alone.

so redemption on the other hand, this item allows you to make saving plays from a very long range, regardless of where you currently are or what you're doing in said place, the massive range on redemption allows supports to make plays all across the map using this. hell, death doesn't even stop support from making clutch plays with this item. why dont other roles abuse these two said items tho? because their stats are only applicable to supports, and that is why i think riot should really look at whats important to supports vs other roles and give the support items unique stats that only supports can abuse, preferably stuff they dont have to only dump on a support. maybe something that synergizes with mages when supports support them later on in teamfights, or maybe something for supports to syngergize with tanks or etc, go figure.

T4underboltJan 6, 20181 votes

Its not like shield, heal supports arent still cancer to deal with. They are heal shield bots rendering useless any attempt to poke or engage. Even the damage creep we have is not enough unless one of main assassins is fed e.g. rengar and even then you cant be sure if he succedes.

Banana 18 BroJan 6, 20183 votes

Have u seen the recent patches mate? How supports are getting constantly nerfed and their core items? Quit crying and respect supports.

T4underboltJan 6, 20182 votes

Yeah dude especially when seeing enemy adc getting jumped on, losing 90% hp and suddenly he has shield that fills all that lost hp and more and when it ends he has full hp. Totally not broken.

DontTouchMyBallJan 6, 20183 votes

{quoted}

Yeah dude especially when seeing enemy adc getting jumped on, losing 90% hp and suddenly he has shield that fills all that lost hp and more and when it ends he has full hp. Totally not broken.

Double relic shield botlane is busted with bandit passive. Should be fixed. Overheal is an adc rune, not a support.

On supports: All shield values had been nerfed by 20 in the last seasons starting from a value of 60 as opposed to 80. We lost windspeakers blessing to a crap rune in the Tank tree and Duskblade is a thing now and also crit items are dirt cheap. Stop being a babies

T4underboltJan 6, 20181 votes

Im not talking about overheal nor double relic shield because this sht is obviously broken. Oh dude they nerfed shield value by 20 early. Oh my god its disaster. Literally unplayable. It's like saying "omg the price of butter went up by 5 cents, holy sht wont be able to afford butter ever again". lost windspeakers blessing wow so bad nerf. Outside of the fact you build 3 support items that give you 45% more shield and heal power total. All you have to do is just being a shield/heal bot and use polymorph, howling gale, or silence on the enemy that engages your adc and you are good to go for freelo. Call me when they nerf shields so you cant give adc twice his hp bar of a shield or when they make it so shield doesnt have armor and magic resist. For now all shielding healing supports and items are as busted as in ardent meta and that wasnt change untill a proper balance will take place.

DontTouchMyBallJan 6, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Im not talking about overheal nor double relic shield because this sht is obviously broken. Oh dude they nerfed shield value by 20 early. Oh my god its disaster. Literally unplayable. It's like saying "omg the price of butter went up by 5 cents, holy sht wont be able to afford butter ever again". lost windspeakers blessing wow so bad nerf. Outside of the fact you build 3 support items that give you 45% more shield and heal power total. All you have to do is just being a shield/heal bot and use polymorph, howling gale, or silence on the enemy that engages your adc and you are good to go for freelo. Call me when they nerf shields so you cant give adc twice his hp bar of a shield or when they make it so shield doesnt have armor and magic resist. For now all shielding healing supports and items are as busted as in ardent meta and that wasnt change untill a proper balance will take place.

Do you realise the nerfs and buffs are usually around small numbers such as 10, 20, 30 or 1-2 seconds? The 20 shield nerf was in all stages not just rank 1. That's a huge nerf. That alone shows how much you know. The Ardent meta was BAD and I certainly don't wanna it back even if I am a support main. Worse meta I seen so far. Also, the current meta is about tank supports and you bitch about shields, seems fair, it's like I found the assassin otp. I think we both can agree our discussion holds no value whatsoever.

T4underboltJan 7, 20181 votes

Yeah it does not since you are support main abuser and you want to click one button to shield adc from dmg of 5 people at once. How else would you climb if supports actually took more than just spamming shield or heal.

ampheonJan 7, 20182 votes

Unless you are ridiculously fed one shield from Janna Lulu or Karma Is not going to stop the adc from a 5-man dive. However, a janna ulting then immediately following up with a charged Q, and then shielding the adc as a bonus, and possibly locketing and/or redemptioning most of the team probably will.

T4underboltJan 7, 20181 votes

One champion completely negating enemy team damage - this should not happen and thats what shield/heal supports currently do. There is no point in cooperating as a team and having good coordination when a champion just spam few buttons and saves anyone or whole team from a perfect engage.

DontTouchMyBallJan 7, 20181 votes

{quoted}

One champion completely negating enemy team damage - this should not happen and thats what shield/heal supports currently do. There is no point in cooperating as a team and having good coordination when a champion just spam few buttons and saves anyone or whole team from a perfect engage.

That's seems like exagerating. Even assuming the supp would save a 5 man dive.... then its the enemy teams fault for being poorly coordinated in the first place.

I mean, if only a Rengar or a Zed jump's my ADC i'll be forced to blow at least a ult and an exhaust on them alone already in oder for he adc to survive, and then what saves my ADC from a 4 man or 5 man now that I already got those on cooldown?

It's supps job to save carries, its meant to happen. Simply do your job better in trying to kill them as an assassin, its not like you havent the tools item 3147

DontTouchMyBallJan 7, 20181 votes

{quoted}

That's seems like exagerating. Even assuming the supp would save a 5 man dive.... then its the enemy teams fault for being poorly coordinated in the first place.

I mean, if only a Rengar or a Zed jump's my ADC i'll be forced to blow at least a ult and an exhaust on them alone already in oder for he adc to survive, and then what saves my ADC from a 4 man or 5 man now that I already got those on cooldown?

It's supps job to save carries, its meant to happen. Simply do your job better in trying to kill them as an assassin, its not like you havent the tools

Edit:

{quoted}

I would like you to take a moment to hover over the icons for the items on the boards, or in the client if you don't beleive that the boards' stats are right. Now, after a bit of reading, you will find that the heal and shield power of and are 10%, not the proposed 8% nerf, and is still 20%, not the 15% nerf that was planned. The changes didn't make it past PBE.

Rightfully! Afterall what is everyone's flavor of complains this month? Thats right, tank supports.

ampheonJan 7, 20182 votes

{quoted}> All you have to do is just being a shield/heal bot and use polymorph, howling gale, or silence on the enemy that engages your adc and you are good to go for freelo.

Ah yes, because only enchanters are capable of peeling.

Also item 3222 item 3107 item 3504 give 40% heal and shield power. The only want to get 45% is with another forbidden idol, AKA a waste of a slot, or go revitalize, which isn't always optimal when you have things like cosmic insight/biscuit/magical footwear, zombie ward/ingenious hunter/cheap shot, scorch or gathering storm/ult hat or mana band/transcendence in the other pages, and the ever occasional and rare presence of mind in precision.

Banana 18 BroJan 6, 20183 votes

What's the point of having a support if it can't save you ? The fuck you talking about ?

T4underboltJan 6, 20181 votes

Whats the point of collapsing on one target and use all your cooldowns if one champion can nullify damage of 5 people. Support should be able to peel but not make his team or adc immortal and render completely useless entire enemy team.

Banana 18 BroJan 6, 20185 votes

You're exaggerating. Nullify damage of 5 people cmon. Please give me a video so I can see how a shield is nullifying damage of 5 people please. Janna's E is barely absorbing any damage now after the nerf and the nerf on the core support items ( item 3504 item 3107 ).

On the other hand, a good support should know when to shield you so the adc or whoever's tanking, absorbs the most core damage for that moment. If you're talking about that, then I'm glad that/those supports made you feel that way, so we can prove that supports are essential in this game.

ampheonJan 7, 20182 votes

The Heal and shield power nerf didnt go through

Banana 18 BroJan 7, 20181 votes

Yes they did.

ampheonJan 7, 20181 votes

I would like you to take a moment to hover over the icons for the items on the boards, or in the client if you don't beleive that the boards' stats are right. Now, after a bit of reading, you will find that the heal and shield power of item 3504 and item 3107 are 10%, not the proposed 8% nerf, and item 3222 is still 20%, not the 15% nerf that was planned. The changes didn't make it past PBE.

Banana 18 BroJan 7, 20181 votes

Patch 7.24b notes - Tooltip Note

https://imgur.com/0pdgncS.gif[/img]

PurejoyceJan 7, 20182 votes

[deleted]

ampheonJan 8, 20181 votes

http://www.surrenderat20.net/2017/12/1213-pbe-update-varus-splash-update.html

Ardent Censer Unique Passive heal and shield power reverted from 8% to 10%

Forbidden Idol Unique passive heal and shield power reverted from 5% to 8%

Mikael's Crucible Unique passive heal and shield power reverted from 15% to 20%

Redemption Unique Passive heal and shield power reverted from 8% to 10%

Salvation (Ornn Masterwork Upgrade) Unique Passive heal and shield power reverted from 8% to 10%

I believe I do.

Wut do u meanJan 6, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Whats the point of collapsing on one target and use all your cooldowns if one champion can nullify damage of 5 people. Support should be able to peel but not make his team or adc immortal and render completely useless entire enemy team.

So... Taric's R shouldn't do its one job?

T4underboltJan 7, 20181 votes

Its an ultimate on quite large cooldown which also has a decent delay. Meanwhile all those heals and shields are instant and basic abilities and actives on non existant cds.

DontTouchMyBallJan 7, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Whats the point of collapsing on one target and use all your cooldowns if one champion can nullify damage of 5 people. Support should be able to peel but not make his team or adc immortal and render completely useless entire enemy team.

So... ZIleans's R shouldn't do its one job?

T4underboltJan 7, 20181 votes

Its an ultimate. It has big cooldown and can be outplayed. Meanwhile all those shields and heals on non existant cd abilities and actives.

DeusVultJan 6, 20186 votes

They could split some of the gold income between the support items and sight stone, so that if a laner wants the power, they have to invest into multiple items and further delay their builds.

Meanwhile supports usually go support item->sightstone->finished support item, so they dont suffer

sadaiblastJan 6, 20181 votes

I like that solution, so tell me more about how you would want to see this be done for example

xelakerJan 6, 20183 votes

if support kits work with nothing they would be amazing in the solo lanes....

sadaiblastJan 6, 20181 votes

And that right there is the realisation that I'm trying to prove, good job on pointing it out for the others. (no honestly though i feel like you're prolly the first person to at least pick up on this so genuinely good job)

KrigjerJan 6, 20187 votes

I just want my gold generation rune page back and I'd be fine.

General Esdeath Jan 6, 20185 votes

Marksmen getting item 3302 for 6 months now and Riot still hasn't caught on.

AstroFerrari Jan 6, 20184 votes

Yeah I'm seeing some ADC players take Relic shield as a starting item. I'm not an expert on support items tho

PinkajJan 6, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Yeah I'm seeing some ADC players take Relic shield as a starting item. I'm not an expert on support items tho

Wait wtf

Z3SleeperJan 6, 20182 votes

It's a common thing now. Almost every pro player takes relic shield to start with. Just look at probuilds.

It works because for one, the item is strong af, and also because it helps their support get their items faster. It's especially useful for Kog Maw who wants is support to get their Ardent ASAP.

PinkajJan 6, 20181 votes

{quoted}

It's a common thing now. Almost every pro player takes relic shield to start with. Just look at probuilds.

It works because for one, the item is strong af, and also because it helps their support get their items faster. It's especially useful for Kog Maw who wants is support to get their Ardent ASAP.

Wow. This game just gets weirder everyday huh o.O

Handin Out NapsJan 6, 20186 votes

No its for the new overheal build. You go Fleet footwork, Overheal, legend: bloodline with resolve secondary (revitalize + Iron skin). You basically just get a big ass shield before fights with overheal and all ur lifesteal.

Z3SleeperJan 6, 20182 votes

It's actually been a thing prior to preseason. It's a ton more viable now that it gives you bandit on top of the precision + domination heal combo.

Handin Out NapsJan 6, 20184 votes

That was because ardent was broken and people needed to funnel gold into supports. Now its just overheal and sustain.

zaire90Jan 6, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Wait wtf

This was being done last season where yah been buddy. It helped supports get redemption and ardent as fast as possible im pretty sure it was even being done during worlds

PinkajJan 7, 20181 votes

{quoted}

This was being done last season where yah been buddy. It helped supports get redemption and ardent as fast as possible im pretty sure it was even being done during worlds

I've been in Silver lol. My teams are all "everyone for themselves" Weirdest I've seen are Doran's Ring on MF or Jhin

Daddy AntsJan 6, 20184 votes

{quoted}

Yeah I'm seeing some ADC players take Relic shield as a starting item. I'm not an expert on support items tho

If damage wasn't so out of control then ADC's wouldn't need to result to buying a item 3097 just to survive a few seconds longer in a teamfight.

[{quoted}](name=Handin Out Naps,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2NaxMBOE,comment-id=000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2018-01-06T10:16:56.910+0000)

That was because ardent was broken and people needed to funnel gold into supports. Now its just overheal and sustain

Being 1 shot by almost everything in the game (Supports included) is not fun.

{quoted}

It's a common thing now. Almost every pro player takes relic shield to start with. Just look at probuilds.

It works because for one, the item is strong af, and also because it helps their support get their items faster. It's especially useful for Kog Maw who wants is support to get their Ardent ASAP.

It's not really taken to help a Support rush an item anymore.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIzCAvXFC-4

This video from PhyLol sums up what the whole point of this Relic/Targon's build is.

Ahri BakaJan 6, 20182 votes

You will need team for both ways , all laners have their own of carrying , and Supports can't honestly be helpful without items

Dasdi96Jan 6, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hikari Sakata,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2NaxMBOE,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-01-06T03:30:10.392+0000)

You will need team for both ways , all laners have their own of carrying , and Supports can't honestly be helpful without items

Back in the old days supports used to be balanced around having 0 items yet still having enough utility. Now their utility is locked behind stuff like item 3504 item 3107 item 3190

Ahri BakaJan 6, 20182 votes

Well as for item 3504 item 3107 item 3222 surely are needed , not only for the special item active they have but for the extra healing and shielding passive too , I mean there is new way to save your mid lane or your adc from a full combo Zed without them :/ without them Zed and all Duskblade users will rule the game more than they already are besides if you will play Soraka without those items , then it's preferred to play any mid laner as a support , besides both teams got supports anyway