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Fiora has very little counterplay

LegacyDAP··22 votes·2,261 views

There I said it.

**EDIT: **Here I'll say why she has very little counter play. Her main damage and escape is Q which can't be punished, but you get punished if you try to cs when vital is facing her, and I'm not having the vital sit there for 15 seconds so I can't get farm.

**EDIT 2: **Fiora identifies the weak spots - or vitals - in the defenses of all enemy champions she comes close to. If she manages to attack her enemy's weak spot, Fiora deals 3% (+2.7 (+0.1 × Fiora's level)% per 100 bonus attack damage) of the target's maximum health as bonus true damage for that attack while gaining 14 (+5.9 × Fiora's level) Health and 20 (+10 × Grand Challenge's rank)% movement speed which decays over 1.75 seconds. Fiora reveals a new weak spot whenever she attacks one, or if 15 seconds pass without it being attacked.

Is that not scaling off of 3 things? Just curious. Because you guys said it scales off of one thing.

46 Comments

Wicked Waffle5 votes

Rantmode: On Jesus f*cking Christ... all these thread about Fiora being OP, and no one tries to capitalize on her weaknesses. First of all, not every single vital is favorable towards Fiora. Not every single vital in the game is going to point towards her, yet most of these threads complaining do not factor this into account. Second of all, it's extremely easy to predict Fiora's movement, because 90% of the time she'll be going for the vitals. If she pushes because she zones you from her vital, ask for a gank. Also, some people don't know that you can reset Fiora's vitals from an unfavorable position to a favorable position by moving into bush or out of eyesight. Fiora is extremely weak when behind. Also, a lot of people don't know that you can bait out her Riposte, leading to many people saying that she's "OP."

Vital's facing Fiora? If you have a form of CC, bait her in, CC her, and deal some damage. Because her Q counts as a basic attack, minions will also add to the damage. If you're losing lane that badly, then ask for ganks. In addition, a lot of people underestimate the secret overpowered way to avoid Fiora from healing: stand next to a wall. That won't let her proc all four Vitals, and thus she cannot proc any more vitals for 15 seconds. Rantmode: Off

LegacyDAP2 votes

This champions has the least counterplay in the game. If you read the title it says very little. Of course she has weaknesses but they're so freaking minuscule. She rarely runs out of mana. Has an aoe team heal. very low LOW cooldowns. And a passive that scales off of AD Level and %Max HP

Wicked Waffle3 votes

"freaking minuscule" If you're able to exploit the positioning of the vitals, the miniscule advantage becomes a huge advantage. Positioning is extremely crucial to Fiora; a single slow can literally lower her DPS by ~20%, and the main counterplay to Fiora is to be one step ahead of her. Fiora isn't immune to ganks. Fiora doesn't have a huge escape like Fizz. If I could think of another champion that has less counterplay than Fiora, it would be Vayne and Annie. "Oh. just CC them and they'll be fine." The same can be said of Fiora. "Oh, but Fiora can negate my CC." A lot of top laner CC are instant, and unless Fiora is Faker and knows exactly when you are going to use your CC, you're probably being too obvious. Fiora's Riposte also has a huge cooldown of 19 seconds, while top laner CC usually have a cooldown of 15 seconds.

"She rarely runs out of mana. Has an aoe team heal. very low LOW cooldowns." I won't argue against that. Fiora does have a bit of a mana issue if she stays in lane farming for a long time (and by that, I mean split pushing), but a single Essence Reaver negates that, as well as giving her really good stats. Her ult... I would like for Riot to increase the cooldown; Fiora is supposed to be able to wreck people in windows of time, not 24/7.

"And a passive that scales off of AD Level and %Max HP" Yes, but positioning is, as I said before, crucial in order to proc this. Fiora isn't a champion that can just proc her %MaxHealth true damage without working for it. You can counterplay this by, for example, if the Vital is facing up, you stand next to a wall.

LegacyDAP3 votes

she can out trade without hitting the vitals because slow crit, and riposte

Wicked Waffle2 votes

But without hitting her vitals, she's losing 30% of her DPS, not getting healed for 20 health, and not getting the movement speed to run away. If she does that you can all in her. Of course, assuming that you have spells and don't just walk towards the minions. Fiora's Q agros minion, incase you haven't noticed. Also, if she uses Riposte to poke... just all in her. She lost her only defensive spell.

Marthian2 votes

Are you letting her hit your vitals for free?

Fadedpf2 votes

Don't let this champion attack you. Sounds like counterplay to me

LegacyDAP2 votes

no. She didn't hit many vitals at all, but if I went to get cs it's not hard, and not to mention she's not punished hard for using her 1 escape.

CppL2 votes

{quoted}

Are you letting her hit your vitals for free?

No ,we just try to cs.

MLDzXnRRR2 votes

Only bursting her with AOE works... armor and hp are useless.

FastAsHeck2 votes

walk in bush

walk out of the bush

problem solved

Unho1y Intent1 votes

item 3075

BluePolarizer17 votes

% HP true damage gg.

Fadedpf1 votes

And she buys a ton of lifesteal, lastwhisper/black cleaver and thornmail was gutted

LegacyDAP1 votes

I was playing Lissandra anyways, but every time I pressed W then Q she'd out trade me with one Q to a Vital spot, and that things stays in the same place for a solid 15 seconds, so I could just sit back and miss farm if it's facing her direction.

Marthian2 votes

Unless they changed it, you move a certain distance away and then come back, your vital position can change (so if it ends up being towards her, move away, and it might make the new vital away from her.)

Also think breaking vision works too, but not sure.

LegacyDAP1 votes

that's helpful thanks. Still shouldn't have to be like that though.

Weiner the Pooh1 votes

{quoted}

that's helpful thanks. Still shouldn't have to be like that though.

so she shouldn't have passive at all?

LegacyDAP1 votes

Didn't say that. It should be less oppressive. It scales on like 3 different things. It's pretty fucking ridiculous, and holds in the same spot for 15 seconds.

Weiner the Pooh3 votes

{quoted}

Didn't say that. It should be less oppressive. It scales on like 3 different things. It's pretty fucking ridiculous, and holds in the same spot for 15 seconds.

It only scales on ad

LegacyDAP2 votes

and level, and the opponents max hp

CppL1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Da Dwagonswayer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2EfvmAyq,comment-id=000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2015-09-06T08:19:38.686+0000)

so she shouldn't have passive at all?

No.She shouldn't have 3 passives.

Weiner the Pooh1 votes

{quoted}

No.She shouldn't have 3 passives.

How does she have 3?

CppL2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Da Dwagonswayer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2EfvmAyq,comment-id=00000000000100000000000000010000,timestamp=2015-09-06T09:16:30.103+0000)

How does she have 3?

True dmg ,heal ,bonus movement speed.

Abyssphere5 votes

{quoted}

True dmg ,heal ,bonus movement speed.

That is an absolutely ridiculous assessment. By that virtue basically everyone has multiple passives. Syndra has four passives and Sona has three, but nobody sane claims either of those things, much less complains about them.

TyroneWatermelon2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Da Dwagonswayer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2EfvmAyq,comment-id=000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2015-09-06T08:19:38.686+0000)

so she shouldn't have passive at all?

i rather her to have no passive at all than this one

Chespin20131 votes

Uh what I played as Lissandra vs a Fiora and found her to be a hard counter into Fiora. Maybe your just not abusing how much range you have with your q or not using your w properly. Hell ult yourself or fiora if she decides to ult on you.

AL0001 votes

no long work against fiora... i really missed to watch the old thormial against fiora's old ult... to her death...

this new thormail is really garbage effective tho...

Fowus1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Unho1y Intent,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2EfvmAyq,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-09-06T07:56:37.192+0000)

item 3075

botrk + %hp true dmg

Critmaster Garen1 votes

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/yjWp2kHE-tips-and-tricks-to-deal-with-the-new-fiora

TyroneWatermelon1 votes

the only counterplay to fiora is qss her ult,and dont let her proc vitals but in lane thats impossible since every not braindead fiora will proc them. also if you dont let her you miss HUGE amout of farm,again to her advantage

BlkGolem1 votes

Yeah i'm kind of okay with the passive, but the way it works with q is just plain annoying. Also her riposte isn't that bad but I was playing Singed and kept forgetting about it and just got stunned when I tried to flip, every time. Makes sense but idk about simply negating any damage at all. Also the ult is annoying; it makes more sense with her kit, but it's annoying how all she has to do is ult a target and if it dies, even if she hasn't even attacked them, then her team gets a Janna ult, without the knockback.

DemaciaClown2 votes

{quoted}

Also the ult is annoying; it makes more sense with her kit, but it's annoying how all she has to do is ult a target and if it dies, even if she hasn't even attacked them.

She actually has to pop atleast one vital.

  • insert TheMoreYouKnow *
BlkGolem1 votes

Thanks, I never realized that so my bad. However I may have not noticed simply because of how easy it is to hit at least one vital anyway.

Yodzeity1 votes

More like she can't be played enjoyably with 100 ping or more

MysteriousBootie1 votes

True damage = cancer

Hotlin3 Fling5 votes

Better nerfTwitch

IceKingChernobog1 votes

might as well, he's already near useless

Gigahappytown1 votes

How to counter fiora Garen item 3751

The Sword Saint1 votes

Walk back a short distance and reset the vital if its somewhere you don't want, or use the vital to bait her into a trade by moving at the last second so she doesn't actually hit it and you get to hit her easy since you know where she'll be.

Once she realizes that you'll be baiting her into the vitals, it becomes a mindgame where you both try and hit and bait vitals using reading and trickery, rather than just every single time fiora's q is off cooldown.

There's plenty of counterplay on both sides of new fiora.

Sire Hippington1 votes

The problem is that her passive has next to no impact early on, and even later her overall damage is so damn high that it's irelevant. If she actually would need to proc her passive more tha once to win a trade, she would have couznterplay, but so she just oppens with a passive proc once it faces her and thats about it, the rest AAs...

The rework had alot potential, but as the numbers are tuned, it's just like old fiora, Q towards your enemie and rightclick him to death, cause your Q+AA+E deals more than enough damage while it's nearly impossible for her to really use her passive more often. She's often picked in LPL, and i can't recall a single game in which she proced more than fields on her ult, nor can i recall a fight in which she really did hit multiple vitals unless they randomly faced her... They should give her better tools to use the passive, adjust the damage of it with some flat+%, so it's relevant early and vs squishys without getting the (potential) lategame madness it is right now with like 75% truedamage in an all in IF you proc them all. To compensate, her overall AA+Q+E damage needs to get nerfed.

DarthSpectrum1 votes

You're just not thinking hard enough.

If her vital is facing her, wait until all her minions are at relatively high health, walk out her passive range, and walk back. The vital will be reset, hopefully to one that betters favor you.

Her Q has an extremely long CD if she doesn't hit something with it (Although she rarely ever misses).

Fiora actually has a lot of counter play. When you fight her, just position yourself to shield your vital. Similar to fighting Ekko or Ahri , when they try to walk down to hit you with the return hit on their Qs. you move downwards as well to dodge it, or dash upwards with an ability and avoid it completely.

Her slow is a bit frustrating to deal with, but her ultimate MS boost is barely anything compared to what other champions have. You can't really counter build Fiora except to get damage yourself. However, a lot of her damage is highly conditional. You can always avoid her damage if you try hard enough.

Dexrazor1 votes

For the people who keep saying move away from Fiora to remove her passive mark to a more favorable position, remember that she can do the same to you. Also Fiora is very hard to gank as her Q cooldown is unbelievably low and she can pretty much escape for free and maybe even kill you or the jungler and get away. There is no itemizing against her damage, no escaping from her unless sick flash jukes were made or you execute yourself to deny the kill. If you stand against the wall to deny her heal, she will just kill you from the true damage with the other 3 procs of her passive, gaining enough hp back from her passive and lifesteal from items to kill you anyway, even under turret and just walk away like it was nothing. She destroys tanks and squishies a bit too easily and her damage needs to be nerfed. Possibly remove the true damage from her kit entirely as it will allow counterplay and trading between her and other top laners.

Lovelle1 votes

I can barely deal with Fiora as Trundle, who I play all the time, so I can only imagine how well her matchups are in general.

I watched a 5/10 Fiora jump on a fed Vayne and take out 75% of her hp bar in less than a second before she got condemned. Any other ADC wouldn't have had a chance.

The powercreep is real.

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