After 4 years I have learned the boards are correct more than Riot when it comes to balance

PapaGreg21·May 19, 2018·72 votes·13,629 views

I'd like to give credit to all the complainers on here that are constantly CORRECT when it comes to dumb decisions that get pushed forward from the PBE and change the meta in an unhealthy fashion. When things get upvoted quite high on the gameplay threads I have 98 percent of the time agreed with the assessment over the last 4 years and it is mind boggling that nobody at RIOT does anything for extended amounts of time about the issue. You people are almost always correct.

99 Comments

Packun FlowerMay 19, 201852 votes

And yet riot has stated that the boards will never ever be a factor or majority voice in their balance policy. Its sad when a company ignored its own official fucking forums lol.

FOR JUSTICEMay 19, 201810 votes

Thats only because a very small fraction of the community even knows the boards exist, let alone post in it. And even then, most users preffer the reddit over the boards anyway.

Its a pretty unsound idea to treat the voice of the minority as the majority.

AlüeMay 19, 201818 votes

That's completely asinine! Negative feedback is always stronger than positive, but that is the intent of forums! to measure what is wrong with the game and hear vocal feed back on the state of the game. Ignoring that feed back is bound to lead to unstable balancing and is see as a common trait amongst games that repeat this pattern.

FOR JUSTICEMay 19, 20186 votes

Dont get me wrong, i dont mean they should completly ignore it, but if less then 8% of players are now saying "annie is broken we should nerf her" then would it actually be right to just take their vocal opinions as the majority rule, and then nerf her?

AlüeMay 19, 201812 votes

What metrics are they testing this feedback on? you can't actively make a change and gauge it off product metrics (self-review) without taking consumer feedback. Video Games especially have active communities when it comes to feedback. Even if this community only represents 2-3% of the league population that's 2-3% out of 8 million. Most studies or feedback only requires a fraction of individuals to answer.

ModAcademy KaynMay 19, 20184 votes

The 80-20 rule. The majority tends to come from the minority. 20% of the floor you walk on at home, is used 80% of the time, which is further influenced by furniture placing, entrances/exists, etc. This can also be applied to people. 80% of the complaints, comes from 20% of the playerbase.

Romans VI XXIIIMay 19, 20184 votes

You do understand that Riot "play tests" every thing internally before release right? What % of the player base do you think makes up that internal players? .00001%? Or near to it.

So instead of basing it off of 8% of the base it's based off of 3 or 4 people, BRILLIANT!!! (cause we all know they completely ignore virtually all feed back from the PBE)

FilDaFunkMay 19, 20184 votes

But should the voice be ignored when it's consistently correct?

FOR JUSTICEMay 19, 20187 votes

A broken clock is right twice a day.

FilDaFunkMay 19, 20185 votes

I don't think you see the meaning behind this saying.

The boards are right so many times, they really should not be ignored.

Snowman ArcMay 19, 20186 votes

I mean, 90% of these boards are below silver. How would you expect them to have any common sense? I see a shit load of threads created here with ideas and opinions that are VASTLY stupid. Literally, turn to the "new" threads option, and see how much stupidity exists here. Why would Riot listen to this? Just to hear lower elo players constantly complaining about Garen and Master Yi, and about how there is a Future's Market meta that's op in bronze.

Romans VI XXIIIMay 19, 20185 votes

You do know that a majority of the Rioybbalance and design teams are silver or lower, very few of tgem are gold+.

Plus you people are all about majorities, and the Majority of players are silver, so shouldn't we balance around the Majority of players not the minority?

Can't have it both ways.

Snowman ArcMay 19, 20184 votes

We should balance the game around the correct way to play. If people can't use the balanced tools given to them, it's not the game's fault, it's just the players being trash.

Romans VI XXIIIMay 19, 20182 votes

I agree. But I also believe that the Majority of players (silver/gold) use them correctly. Not perfectly like plat+ but correctly.

You can't sit there and convince me that 90% of this community is trash. Are they pros or experts? Hell no, but plenty adequete to balance around.

Sun Wu RyuumokuMay 19, 20182 votes

. Not perfectly like plat+ but correctly.

Plat don't even play this game correctly. Just start by reaching this elo, it'll change your sight.

Romans VI XXIIIMay 20, 20182 votes

Lol. Idc what your elo is.

Sun Wu RyuumokuMay 20, 20181 votes

its tolally unrelated to my elo. plats players don't play this game near of perfectly.

Snowman ArcMay 20, 20182 votes

Exactly, I'm in plat elo, and my mechanics are not the best, nor are anyone's that I play with or against.

Sun Wu RyuumokuMay 20, 20181 votes

no only mechanics, its even worse on macro side.

Snowman ArcMay 20, 20181 votes

Well, at least they tend to avoid quite a lot of stupid things that lower elo players do. Like stupid tower dives, itemization mistakes, bad summoners etc, which is quite important.

Sun Wu RyuumokuMay 20, 20181 votes

You'll be surprise.

Batpool UchihaMay 19, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Snowman Arc,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1zilo49r,comment-id=00020002,timestamp=2018-05-19T08:13:09.300+0000)

I mean, 90% of these boards are below silver. How would you expect them to have any common sense? I see a shit load of threads created here with ideas and opinions that are VASTLY stupid. Literally, turn to the "new" threads option, and see how much stupidity exists here. Why would Riot listen to this? Just to hear lower elo players constantly complaining about Garen and Master Yi, and about how there is a Future's Market meta that's op in bronze.

lmao i always go futures when i play a champ in norms because i know i might do poorly so i dont wanna be super behind

Snowman ArcMay 19, 20181 votes

Every time you use Future's Market, you essentially put yourself 50 gold behind.

Batpool UchihaMay 19, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Snowman Arc,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1zilo49r,comment-id=0002000200020000,timestamp=2018-05-19T20:04:35.865+0000)

Every time you use Future's Market, you essentially put yourself 50 gold behind.

futures market pardons some of your gold and lets you keep it. also your not 50 gold behind. your using it to buy items faster reaching your spike faster. used to build it on vlad and i had like 3 items in 15 minutes becuase of how i would use the extra item i got to an advantage

Snowman ArcMay 20, 20181 votes

I mean, yeah, if you can 100% make sure to use the first item completion to pick up a kill that you wouldn't otherwise get, then sure, it helps. But this is a rare case and comes down too much on execution. If you don't materialize on it, you put yourself even more behind.

Sun Wu RyuumokuMay 19, 20182 votes

this

ModAcademy KaynMay 19, 201813 votes

You got their quote wrong. They said they take the boards opinion into factor, but they need to be careful when doing so, due to the echo chamber nature of the boards, and the threat of a vocal minority.

Jon 678910May 19, 20187 votes

[{quoted}](name=Annie x Zoe Yuri,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1zilo49r,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-05-19T02:16:02.649+0000)

And yet riot has stated that the boards will never ever be a factor or majority voice in their balance policy. Its sad when a company ignored its own official fucking forums lol.

It's not even just Riot though. Some people will still defend Riot after awful changes and tell other people to stop complaining.

SaiannaMay 19, 20185 votes

Tbh every game I know that still works ignores their own forums...

MetalGearTeemoMay 20, 20181 votes

its official fucking forums are Reddit.

Hell its why they changed to forums to "Boards"

And what do you fucking know, they still post on reddit more because its a kiss your ass echo chamber. This entire rework ( like most things riot touched ) was a solution looking for a problem.

Modl Ryden lMay 19, 201826 votes

What you have experienced is what is known as confirmation bias.

AirKingNeoMay 19, 201817 votes

I mean, if you exclude the super circlejerk, yep.

Otherwise, you get: Items made for struggling bruisers is "ad favorism"

Hong Kong AnnieMay 19, 20184 votes

Yes bruiser and fighters are struggling, but you act like the new items aren't going to be abused by ADCs and assassins. Any change to fighters items effects these guys just as much, if not more.

AirKingNeoMay 19, 20183 votes

how tf does an adc or assassin use atma's?

AngelNipataMay 19, 20182 votes

I don't think the reference was to Atma's, but instead to the Spear of Shojin(or whatever it's called) or other items in the past that were made for one ad class, but abused by others.

saltranMay 19, 20182 votes

{quoted}

I don't think the reference was to Atma's, but instead to the Spear of Shojin(or whatever it's called) or other items in the past that were made for one ad class, but abused by others.

But Spear of Shojin already has a counter synergy on ranged champs and I heavily doubt that any adc will ever buy it.

And he's clearly talking about new fighter items. Anyway I agree that some ad items are abused by most times adcs.

LegendmakerGXMay 19, 201816 votes

If people say "If Riot listen to the board then the game would be broken" then I don't know what the game is at the moment because it clearly isn't balance.

DisembarkMay 19, 201817 votes

I mean Riot has been listening to the boards...

Or maybe you didn’t see all the “assassins are too weak” threads or “revert LB and Rengar” threads or “tired of jungler deciding my lane” threads.

Like cmon... OP is being ridiculous cause whenever Riot does what Boards says, the people that we’re complaining now leave, and a new wave of people bitching about their own problems arrives.

LightIsMyPathMay 19, 20186 votes

This doesn't make sense. Assessments were "assassins are too weak because their intended targets kill them before they can be bursted down" "rengar and LeBlanc are unhealthy and if you can't work on them now just revert them" "jungle has too much agency over lanes and game".

So: Nerf mages (???? Noone was complaining about assassins being weak IN LANE, problem was they were weak in the time frame they should reliably assassinate stuff, and they still are if they don't go 20/0. This feels like shit for both the mage who has to go through a nightmare lane and the assassin, who's still less impactful than the enemy who fed them after a certain point.

Reverts. Ok I 'd say.

XP nerfs in jungle (ok) until level 7(??) and monstrous rewards on crab (???) .

Z3SleeperMay 19, 201810 votes

Mages got nerfed? They literally got 3 different, better versions of old morellos to choose from now. Archangels is way better. Twin shadows and shurelias are back. Liandrys got buffed. Dorans ring got buffed. Rabadons got buffed. Spellbinder added. Fiendish codex buffed. Base mana regen across the board buffed. Base mana for first 7 levels buffed. Rylais buffed again.

Where are the nerfs exactly?

KZ EngelMay 19, 201815 votes

they're also wrong more often than riot

that's kinda what happens when you have hundreds of people constantly posting, as opposed to a couple rioters sometimes posting

Z3SleeperMay 19, 201810 votes

I mean when u complain about everything you’re guaranteed to be right about everything that turns out badly.

LeetriMay 19, 201810 votes

Throw enough shit at the wall and something's sure to stick

YoNightmare7May 20, 20181 votes

Wow that's a statement ill remember

LilxPaprikaMay 19, 20187 votes

I do not see any reason we couldnt have a live pbe where hit normal games but not ranked or something to ge better assessment. So two stage before hitting live ranked.

SociopathFriendMay 19, 20187 votes

After 4 years I have learned the boards are correct more than Riot when it comes to balance

If you ignore all of the times the Boards has been incorrect and also cross out the subjective areas where there's no objective winner then sure, the boards are "correct" more often than Riot.