to those of you complaining about mark/dash

Arcade Andrew·Apr 30, 2015·15 votes·1,623 views

its Aram not ranked, so its there for fun THERE IS NO REASON TO EVEN CARE WHEN ITS NOT COMPETITIVE WHAT SO EVER
Don't like the spell? don't use it.
If you can't dodge that tiny snowball, you deserve to get facestomped by whatever champion (kat) kills your team
HOW DARE YOU COMPLAIN ABOUT IT I LOVE IT BECAUSE NOW WE CAN SAY "pew" WHEN WE THROW IT AND ITS FUN TO HAVE AN ARAM SNOWBALL FIGHT
same thing as number four except when you kill somebody via snowball and then say pew c; 6)I dare you to use mark then dash into five of them with a team that wont follow up

34 Comments

lightdragoon88Apr 30, 20156 votes

{quoted}

its Aram not ranked, so its there for fun THERE IS NO REASON TO EVEN CARE WHEN ITS NOT COMPETITIVE WHAT SO EVER

Don't like the spell? don't use it.

And that is where I stop reading.

http://d22zlbw5ff7yk5.cloudfront.net/images/stash-1-50f3571eaf392.gif

Arcade AndrewApr 30, 20154 votes

that snowball gif is worth it

Plasma ServantMay 6, 20152 votes

While I read the rest, I see your point.

If a person played nothing bot AI games, and something in ranked changed and all the people there complained, the person that played nothing but AI could say "it's ranked not AI, so it's there for fun THERE IS NO REASON TO EVEN CARE WHEN IT'S NOT COMPETITIVE"

"Don't like the spell, don't use it" is that sort of like "Don't like to be murdered, don't kill people."

lightdragoon88May 7, 20151 votes

Exactly.

junglerboy16May 1, 20155 votes

Out of my last 78 ARAM matches on this account (prior to the addition of mark/dash), 51 were on melee champs, 27 were on ranged. On melees I lost 26 and won 25, on ranged I lost 12 and won 15 (technically, 3 of those ranged wins were on Kayle, who is both a ranged and a melee, take that how you will). Melees weren't ever unviable (only Udyr actually struggles in ARAM), and were actually very well balanced most of the time. Ranged champs seemed to have a slightly easier time yes (even though only 2 of those "known SS tier champs" (Sona and Lux) are actually statistically as strong as people think), but the addition of Mark/dash throws everything out of whack in a very, very bad way.

As someone pointed out in another similar thread, Mark/dash in concept is absolutely fine. I'm all for giving melees a way to engage a fight, but they have so drastically overloaded this ability that it has ruined ARAM. To sum it up, Mark/dash has:

2500 range (the longest range of any engage spell outside Ashe's ultimate)
deals 20+(10 per level) true damage, which is equal to 40% of ignite in a single hit
it only has a 20 second cooldown that can be reduced at max to as little as 13 seconds, which leaves it with 1050% The damage output of ignite.
Dash has an infinite range
unblockable by either spell shields or projectile blocking effects
0 cost for casting or more importantly, not dashing to the target

Basically, mark/dash is supposed to offer immobile melees a method of closing in and engaging a fight. Right now though, since Mark/dash requires no commitment, it makes those ranged poke champs that were annoying before that much more annoying. Mark/dash hasn't actually changed the balance of ARAM like it was supposed to, it has just taken all the skill out of every champion's play, melee and ranged alike, leaving ARAM like a mosh pit of flailing bodies instead of one team trying to coordinate that perfect all in, or playing for late game, or using their abilities tactfully.

The way to fix this is very simple:

Mark no longer deals damage and can be blocked in the same way any other spell or projectile can be
Dash now deals damage instead when triggered (rewarding commitment, not passive poke)
Mark cooldown is now 45 seconds, reduced by 25 seconds if Dash is activated (again, rewarding commitment and emphasizing at least a small amount of skill)
range lowered to 1500 or possibly 2000 (still incredibly long ranged, just not nearly as overloaded)
damage adjusted to 16+(8 per level) which is a total change of minus 40 damage at 18 (as a high mobility spell, it shouldn't be chunking your target nearly as hard as it does)

Voila, you still have vastly improved melee mobility, but reduced abuse by already poke heavy champions, which reinforces mark/dash's intended niche quite well.

Berry ÁllenMay 1, 20153 votes

{quoted}

The way to fix this is very simple:

Mark no longer deals damage and can be blocked in the same way any other spell or projectile can be

Dash now deals damage instead when triggered (rewarding commitment, not passive poke)

Mark cooldown is now 45 seconds, reduced by 25 seconds if Dash is activated (again, rewarding commitment and emphasizing at least a small amount of skill)

range lowered to 1500 or possibly 2000 (still incredibly long ranged, just not nearly as overloaded)

damage adjusted to 16+(8 per level) which is a total change of minus 40 damage at 18 (as a high mobility spell, it shouldn't be chunking your target nearly as hard as it does)

Voila, you still have vastly improved melee mobility, but reduced abuse by already poke heavy champions, which reinforces mark/dash's intended niche quite well.

Why don't you have more up votes, you're amazing

AtheosisXApr 30, 20154 votes

It's just for fun and Riot ruined the fun. You don't see the problem?

StrawberrycocoaApr 30, 20154 votes

It wasn't fun if you got selected into a melee champion, especially the less-mobile ones.

JugglaJApr 30, 20154 votes

totally with you there strawberry, made melee champs very viable for aram finally, it sucked having a bunch of super poke champs facerolling teams because you simply.... cannot... reach them

StrawberrycocoaApr 30, 20152 votes

Yeah, that. I also know a couple people who made smurf accounts explicitly for ARAM that had, by intention NOTHING but ranged poke champions. They removed the Random aspect to ensure they always got a favorable champion. Those folk are in for a world of hurt now.

Focus TeemoMay 1, 20151 votes

{quoted}

It's just for fun and Riot ruined the fun. You don't see the problem?

The Truth about mark/dash.

Before mark/dash: The enemy has Janna and or Sona... where is my gun i swear to god i'm going to end it all tonight. After mark/dash: Wow this isn't complete bullshit anymore... i mean its still bullshit but i only want to bash my fucking skull in like a bag of potatoes(that's a good start).

There's nothing fun about being a melee champ against a poke/sustain comp in aram(even with mark/dash). At least now people have a chance. If anything Riot needs to give ARAM the URF treatment and reduce healing to(again).

Berry ÁllenMay 1, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Focus Teemo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1zfXekXJ,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2015-05-01T04:19:04.241+0000)

If anything Riot needs to give ARAM the URF treatment and reduce healing to.

Healing is already -%50

Focus TeemoMay 1, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Healing is already -%50

And Sona has had a 65%+ win ratio for years anyway... tells you something about poke/sustain comps in ARAM right there.

Berry ÁllenMay 1, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Focus Teemo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1zfXekXJ,comment-id=0001000100000000,timestamp=2015-05-01T04:44:23.001+0000)

And Sona has had a 65%+ win ratio for years anyway... tells you something about poke/sustain comps in ARAM right there.

That's just cause she's too damn op, but i've lost with sonas before. Just kill her first

Focus TeemoMay 1, 20151 votes

{quoted}

That's just cause she's too damn op, but i've lost with sonas before. Just kill her first

Oh no i'm Trundle, and she isn't face hugging me voluntarily.... what do(this is without mark/dash that is)? Killing Sona is easier said then done, and if your melee it isn't going to happen unless she gift wraps herself to you. Zed, Galio, or Sion MIGHT make it work... everyone else isn't even worth mentioning(Galio and Zed are about as melee as freaking Jayce is in that mode to... as in not very).

AtheosisXMay 1, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Focus Teemo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1zfXekXJ,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2015-05-01T04:19:04.241+0000)

The Truth about mark/dash.

Before mark/dash: The enemy has Janna and or Sona... where is my gun i swear to god i'm going to end it all tonight. After mark/dash: Wow this isn't complete bullshit anymore... i mean its still bullshit but i only want to bash my fucking skull in like a bag of potatoes(that's a good start).

There's nothing fun about being a melee champ against a poke/sustain comp in aram(even with mark/dash). At least now people have a chance. If anything Riot needs to give ARAM the URF treatment and reduce healing to(again).

I get what you're saying but with that 20 second cooldown the cure is a bad or worse than the disease. Now ARAM is about close range AOE destruction instead of poke, and personally I think that's markedly worse than the poke meta. Now every ARAM game devolves into clusterfuck team fights where squishies get the short end of the stick over and over again.

Focus TeemoMay 1, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I get what you're saying but with that 20 second cooldown the cure is a bad or worse than the disease. Now ARAM is about close range AOE destruction instead of poke, and personally I think that's markedly worse than the poke meta. Now every ARAM game devolves into clusterfuck team fights where squishies get the short end of the stick over and over again.

Trust me that's still definitely not the case, spam all the snowballs you want a single CC and you're right back at square one(well except Olaf now). Unless your hilariously well suited for the mode like Sion or Galio you aren't going to be exactly a deal breaker(which Sona and Janna are with or without mark/dash). The way howling abyss is designed gives teams with poke/sustain and kiting potential a massive inherent advantage, that's VERY hard to bridge.

Ranged team comps still are hilariously oppressive in ARAM, and one thing you're apparently completely unaware of is kiting and towers... you know because you can poke melee teams from safety with zero risk even with Mark/Dash(If you seriously believe melee champs would win a teamfight under tower against mages you're insane).

Not to mention ranged teams have the advantage of superior and safer waveclear which is amazing in ARAM. Hell the best thing melee teams can wish for is a CC machine like Nautilus to engage dives, and take preferable fights(which is much more possible now). However god forbid the ARAM tier list be changed by filthy melee champs.

AtheosisXMay 1, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Focus Teemo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1zfXekXJ,comment-id=0001000100010000,timestamp=2015-05-01T18:48:53.924+0000)

Trust me that's still definitely not the case, spam all the snowballs you want a single CC and you're right back at square one(well except Olaf now). Unless your hilariously well suited for the mode like Sion or Galio you aren't going to be exactly a deal breaker(which Sona and Janna are with or without mark/dash). The way howling abyss is designed gives teams with poke/sustain and kiting potential a massive inherent advantage, that's VERY hard to bridge.

Ranged team comps still are hilariously oppressive in ARAM, and one thing you're apparently completely unaware of is kiting and towers... you know because you can poke melee teams from safety with zero risk even with Mark/Dash(If you seriously believe melee champs would win a teamfight under tower against mages you're insane).

Not to mention ranged teams have the advantage of superior and safer waveclear which is amazing in ARAM. Hell the best thing melee teams can wish for is a CC machine like Nautilus to engage dives, and take preferable fights(which is much more possible now). However god forbid the ARAM tier list be changed by filthy melee champs.

I've already seen it happen. There are lots of powerful aoe champs that can kill half a squishy team under a tower with ease. And you don't even get it. It's not about melee champs. It's about champs with powerful aoe effects.

Silents429Apr 30, 20154 votes

Going to leave a disclaimer and say I like the Mark/Dash but still find this post annoying.

its Aram not ranked, so its there for fun THERE IS NO REASON TO EVEN CARE WHEN ITS NOT COMPETITIVE WHAT SO EVER

I hope you re-read this and see how stupid that logic is, because basically that means anyone who doesn't play ranked has no right to complain about anything. Which is bonkers.

Don't like the spell? don't use it.

Well gee, I think the most of the complaints stem from others using it too, you know?

If you can't dodge that tiny snowball, you deserve to get facestomped by whatever champion (kat) kills your team

Well that was just rude, Most of us play with a high ass ping, dodging fast moving skill shots is not easy at all.

HOW DARE YOU COMPLAIN ABOUT IT I LOVE IT BECAUSE NOW WE CAN SAY "pew" WHEN WE THROW IT AND ITS FUN TO HAVE AN ARAM SNOWBALL FIGHT

Clearly this was a joke point not meant to be taken serious. But I will refer to point 1 where you said it isn't ranked so you can't complain, this means you can't complain about other people disliking a feature.

same thing as number four except when you kill somebody via snowball and then say pew c;

Oh gee whilickers we should just add it to every game mode if that is the case.

6)I dare you to use mark then dash into five of them with a team that wont follow up

I triple dog dare you to stop making stupid points if you actually care enough to post on the forum about a problem you care about supposedly.

Again disclaimer, like the Aram changes, just found this post terrible.

Arcade AndrewApr 30, 20151 votes

somebody got butthurt at this post

besides: all these are valid points: (the joke ones aside)

1- Riot is offering you a game to play and there is nothing for you to gain by playing said game mode (in ranked there is potential for you to find a good team, rank up get to LCS / tournys ect.)

therefore riot can do whatever they want, and if players dont like it? dont play that gamemode then, because god forbid they try and make that gamemode fun for everyone!

2- This is more of a "supply and demand type deal" thing

if a ton of players dont use it (like revive) and riot sees its failing they might remove it

3- Why are you even playing this game with high ping? ranked or not, riot hates leavers, high ping= lag/afk/dc and then you get banned for leaverbuster im pretty sure 95% of league players dont play with a ping higher than 200max and 200 ping is easy to play with

Ive used mark/dash to dash into five of them then I got yelled at for being to agro even though i stunned em all

lightdragoon88May 1, 20153 votes

{quoted}

somebody got butthurt at this post

besides: all these are valid points: (the joke ones aside)

1- Riot is offering you a game to play and there is nothing for you to gain by playing said game mode (in ranked there is potential for you to find a good team, rank up get to LCS / tournys ect.)

therefore riot can do whatever they want, and if players dont like it? dont play that gamemode then, because god forbid they try and make that gamemode fun for everyone!

That like giving kids who want to play baseball a bowling ball for the baseball and a toothpick for the bat and saying in their face

You: "If you want an actual baseball and bat then play in the NFL where it matters. Since this isn't the NFL I can make you do whatever I want."

Kids: "But we can't play baseball with this."

You: "To bad cause your game doesn't matter."

Silents429May 1, 20152 votes

Do you realize how stupid you sound right now? I am trying not to be mean about this but seriously your view on this situation is utterly ridiculous.

1- Riot is offering you a game to play and there is nothing for you to gain by playing said game mode (in ranked there is potential for you to find a good team, rank up get to LCS / tournys ect.)

therefore riot can do whatever they want, and if players dont like it? dont play that gamemode then, because god forbid they try and make that gamemode fun for everyone!

Uh, I think my enjoyment counts as a gain for playing said game mode? (Aram/Normals) I don't see how making it more competitive and stressful means I am gaining more from it. (Ranked)

I can't even comprehend how dumb it is you think it is fine for them to do whatever they want regardless of player feedback, which has been a driving influence on how the game is today.

2- This is more of a "supply and demand type deal" thing

if a ton of players dont use it (like revive) and riot sees its failing they might remove it

I don't really know why people dislike the new summoner spell, I can only assume it has to do with completely changing Arams playstyle, and simply not picking the summoner doesn't change this at all, when more likely the other 9 people have it anyway. And I don't think you know what "Supply and demand" actually means.

3- Why are you even playing this game with high ping? ranked or not, riot hates leavers, high ping= lag/afk/dc and then you get banned for leaverbuster im pretty sure 95% of league players dont play with a ping higher than 200max and 200 ping is easy to play with

I know in tense situations like this someone might mockingly say they are laughing at how funny what you said is, but I am legit cracking up over this. Where to start. Well, 90-100 Ping isn't that bad, for the first 3 seasons I had 60-70, Riot doesn't hate anyone. And I can confidently say most of the NA playerbase being on the east coast has a ping of 100-200 with spikes up to 10,000 occasionally, feel free to check the millions of posts, or Riots official threads about fixing the server problems, and solutions they are working towards etc etc. Oh. And 200 ping is not easy, 100 isn't easy, the thing about fast moving skillshots is it requires exact timing which having a delay on these makes that timing non existent.

I mean seriously I have been around league for years and you are the only person I have seen think 95% of the community doesn't have a high ping. Like wow. The fucking servers are on the West coast in the NA and most of NA players are on the east. Just. Wow.

Ive used mark/dash to dash into five of them then I got yelled at for being to agro even though i stunned em all

Congrats?

Drunk RummateApr 30, 20153 votes

{quoted}

its Aram not ranked, so its there for fun THERE IS NO REASON TO EVEN CARE WHEN ITS NOT COMPETITIVE WHAT SO EVER

Hey ranked doesn't matter either then friend. It's just a game. I play a lot of ARAM and it matters to me because I like to enjoy the games I play. This has got to be the dumbest argument I've ever seen.

{quoted}

Don't like the spell? don't use it. I like the spell I just think it's way overtuned

{quoted}

If you can't dodge that tiny snowball, you deserve to get facestomped by whatever champion (kat) kills your team

When there's 5 flying at you at once in a tiny corridor and you're also dodging a Nidalee spear and Leona ult, sometimes it can be difficult to dodge them. But I guess you wouldn't know that because you're scripting, right?

{quoted}

HOW DARE YOU COMPLAIN ABOUT IT I LOVE IT BECAUSE NOW WE CAN SAY "pew" WHEN WE THROW IT AND ITS FUN TO HAVE AN ARAM SNOWBALL FIGHT

It's a fun and interesting addition but it's way overpowered, especially on some champions like Galio.

{quoted}

6)I dare you to use mark then dash into five of them with a team that wont follow up

Plenty of champs will do that and guarantee a followup. Galio, Amumu, Leona, Alistar, etc.

djjomonApr 30, 20153 votes

God forbid melees be viable in ARAM.

This also solves the old issue of ARAM smurfs who only buy poke/heal champions

junglerboy16Apr 30, 20155 votes

All of you people who never realized that most melees were viable in ARAM astound me...

djjomonApr 30, 20152 votes

I mean, it's ARAM. Everything's viable. But they sure as hell weren't favorable.

If you really want, I'll keep using different words to say the same thing. Melees were weaker in ARAM, less favored, bordering unviable due to the large amount of poke centric comps.

junglerboy16May 1, 20153 votes

Out of my past 51 matches of ARAM where I was a melee, I won 25 and lost 26. That isn't a gigantic sample size, but it highlights my point, which is also supported heavily by the statistics. Sion for one has a 60-61% win rate on ARAM. Malphite and Alistar are and were both at nearly an exact 50% win rate (it dips up and down daily, but evens out over time). Nearly all melee champ had between a 48 and 55% win rate, with only a few standouts (like Udyr at around 39-40%).

Here's something else that will blow your mind: Nidalee, the infamous ARAM poke queen, has a measly 46% winrate.

In fact, the only champions on ARAM who actually lives up to their reputation of being totally OP are Sona at a 65% win rate and Lux at 61%, (even Blitz who is notoriously annoying to play against on ARAM only averaged about 52%).

Focus TeemoMay 1, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Out of my past 51 matches of ARAM where I was a melee, I won 25 and lost 26. That isn't a gigantic sample size, but it highlights my point, which is also supported heavily by the statistics. Sion for one has a 60-61% win rate on ARAM. Malphite and Alistar are and were both at nearly an exact 50% win rate (it dips up and down daily, but evens out over time). Nearly all melee champ had between a 48 and 55% win rate, with only a few standouts (like Udyr at around 39-40%).

Here's something else that will blow your mind: Nidalee, the infamous ARAM poke queen, has a measly 46% winrate.

In fact, the only champions on ARAM who actually lives up to their reputation of being totally OP are Sona at a 65% win rate and Lux at 61%, (even Blitz who is notoriously annoying to play against on ARAM only averaged about 52%).

Twisting numbers, and presenting convenient evidence... good job. You left out Jannas ludicrous win rate, Ziggs who sits at a 65% win rate, Kog'maw who sits at 64%, Vel'koz at 59%, heimer at 63%, Varus who sits at 57%, Legitimately the only two melee champs who can consistently keep up in ARAM are Galio, and Sion(at 65% and 62%). In fact most melee champs average a 30-35% win rate... where are you getting these numbers? Hell over the last five patches Irelia had the lowest win rate, averaging a 22% win rate... BALANCED... I THINK NOT!!!!

Here i'll even provide sources. Cross reference them a bit, and you'll get the idea. http://lolmatches.com/championstats/last2/AR http://www.lolking.net/charts?region=all&type=champion-winrate&range=monthly&map=ha&queue=normal

junglerboy16May 1, 20151 votes

Sorry, I guess I didn't look far enough, I was looking at the champs that people on this thread were mentioning as weak specifically (using looking.com for the numbers), so I suppose I missed the ones that nobody complains about.

lightdragoon88May 1, 20151 votes

Tell me about it.

I love getting Garen, Sion, and Yorick in ARAM.

Mikal PikalApr 30, 20152 votes

The people complaining are likely the people that have ARAM only accounts with all ranged poke or dodged if they got a melee champ. In spite of it being "random" the teams always mysteriously contained Ezreal Sona Velkoz Katarina Blitzcrank .

Plasma ServantMay 6, 20151 votes

I don't like it because it changed the basics of what ARAM was. I have melee champs, I have ranged champs. I have lots of champs. I am no longer playing aram because now it stinks. My favorite champions on aram are the tanks that can take a beating (as long as the team has decent ranged champs that can win the game). Udyr is one of the champions I love on aram, because he is capable of doing so much. I might not get many kills, but tanks with ranged champions that know how to take advantage of them rule aram.

If a team has nothing but ranged without and hard cc, Yi will slice them to pieces. I used to love being on a team with one or two tanks, and a mix of adc/apc ranged. gg from the start.

SkuntMay 1, 20152 votes

I like Mark/Dash for the sole reason that the enemy suspiciously always seems to have a Nidalee on their team. You can now make her have 20+ deaths.

bigusaMay 6, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Arcade Andrew,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1zfXekXJ,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-04-30T18:32:57.102+0000)

its Aram not ranked, so its there for fun THERE IS NO REASON TO EVEN CARE WHEN ITS NOT COMPETITIVE WHAT SO EVER

Don't like the spell? don't use it.

If you can't dodge that tiny snowball, you deserve to get facestomped by whatever champion (kat) kills your team

HOW DARE YOU COMPLAIN ABOUT IT I LOVE IT BECAUSE NOW WE CAN SAY "pew" WHEN WE THROW IT AND ITS FUN TO HAVE AN ARAM SNOWBALL FIGHT

same thing as number four except when you kill somebody via snowball and then say pew c; 6)I dare you to use mark then dash into five of them with a team that wont follow up

WOW dude your history shows no games of aram, and here you are talking about accepting snowballs. How about snowballs be brought into SR ranked. Unless you ready to take it, don't dish it.