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Should Yasuo learn something from Poppy? (Not complaining, discussion)

SSShutTheDuckUp··14 votes·1,202 views

So... I am not saying the classic "Yasuo is op, plz nerf". Right ATM he is not OP by any means. I have rarely seen him in game, so i cannot say if he is balanced or underpowered, or whatever.

NB! I am not suggesting ti RIOT what to do These guys have game designers, who know the game better that I will ever do. I am not teaching them how to do their job. i just wanna discuss this with you guys.

So, new Poppy W blocks only one dash per champion, and does not block spell immune dashes. Makes perfect sense. Should Yasuo's windwall behave the same way? I mean block a limited amount of projectiles per champion and does not block most of ult projectiles (Jinx, Cait, Draven). While it does makes sens to block Corki's or Irelia's ult projectiles. Or maybe work in a similar way as Braum's wall - blocks only one projectile and weakens the others.

Something else: please do not say "that would gut him, he is already weak" or stuff like that. Or "spaghetti code, that would never work as intended". I repeat: RIOT has game designers, who know the game better that I will ever do. I am not teaching them how to do their job. I just want a friendly discussion - does that seems fair, reasonable, makes sense, would allow other champion to play around this or if you think that champion dashes cannot and shouldn't be treated the same way?

Please keep it friendly. Thank you for your time reading and answering. Have a wonderful day!

P.S. Teemo is like 5 kg, how he can travel through the wall, while a giant rocket cannot? P.S.2. I wanted the P.S. to be under the pool

34 Comments

Indominus Blade5 votes

Yasuo is garbage and weak, 43% winrate diamond league global, lmfao.

SSShutTheDuckUp3 votes

Or maybe... just maybe read the text before comment?

Indominus Blade4 votes

I did, you are suggesting a nerf to an already garbage champ.

SSShutTheDuckUp4 votes

I'm not going to argue with you. Normally i would just wish you a nice day, but i am not sure what you would understand

Ahristocats1 votes

[{quoted}](name=UselessAsF ck,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1ysvWbv0,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2015-12-20T00:46:44.851+0000)

Or maybe... just maybe read the text before comment?

you're suggesting hiw windwall to block a limited amount of projectiles, that's a nerf and his win rate will fall down even more and should not be done because yasuo needs a reliable defensive spell, it's like asking tryndamere to block a limited amount of damage with his ulti, those champ can't get those changes or their design will be destroyed.

counterplay to windwall? doesn't block champions

counterplay to the counterplay of windwall? champions are in front of you you can now kill them, sounds right for me the 2 sides have their chances.

if anything, windwall should not maybe be an anti-poke spell so i suggest to give a small delay

ZT Xperimentor1 votes

The shield he gets for free is plenty of defense considering it charges up from his infi-dash.

Left Hook Larry4 votes

Why? Makes no logically sense to further nerf a champ that is already weak right now. His windwall is fine. If Riot gave him the same treatment then they would have to make him broken as she is. Anyone who thinks Yasuo is broken is a silver idiot

SSShutTheDuckUp2 votes

Before offending i would recommend reading what exactly is written in the topic.

Left Hook Larry3 votes

I hope Riot implements nothing that the new Poppy has into any other champ because fuck that champ. And you're trying to nerf a 45% win rate. Good luck with that one

SSShutTheDuckUp2 votes

As long as you are not actually gonna read what I've written i would like to politely ask you to stop writing here. Happy holidays

Rico Nasty3 votes

He's not even weak, really, Yasuo is just fine right now. I have no idea where people get the idea he's weak or strong. He is just fine right now.

DunkinNoobs5 votes

He's fine in low-mid elo, yes. But in high elo, he's pretty much bottom tier. The gutting of Shiv has left him without a meaningful 1st item powerspike and that tends to get him crushed by competent opponents with their power spikes. I personally don't even play him these days; simply not worth the effort atm.

Sona Ping1 votes

It makes plenty of sense, logically. Have you thought about why he is weak?

Champions that have broken elements their kits are weak; they are made weak to balance that. There is no shortage of champions who are kept weak for precisely this reason. It's the reason Poppy was so weak for years. It's the reason Poppy was entirely remade!

If broken aspects are changed, and the bandages that have been applied to their concepts are removed, you then have the room needed to work with them and can adjust the champion's strength back up. Even ask Meddler, he agrees on this.

Left Hook Larry2 votes

He's weak because they gutted Shiv after already nerfing what made him strong, Warloads. Windwall isn't a broken element. It's a 26 second CD spell that only blocks certain spells. If you honestly can't play around this then you can only blame yourself for being terrible at this game.

Sona Ping2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Savage Bear,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1ysvWbv0,comment-id=000000020000,timestamp=2015-12-20T16:39:05.370+0000)

He's weak because they gutted Shiv after already nerfing what made him strong, Warloads. Windwall isn't a broken element. It's a 26 second CD spell that only blocks certain spells. If you honestly can't play around this then you can only blame yourself for being terrible at this game.

I'm not even complaining about Yasuo. Yasuo players were complaining that he was weak long before preseason even started. Something that buffed him and boosted him up was immediately nerfed due to him? Exactly the pattern you see on broken champions. Btw, you have an error; it's not "It's a 26 second CD spell that only blocks certain spells." It is "An ability that can even negates ultimates on only a 26 second CD."

Left Hook Larry1 votes

"Yasuo players" who are these kids? NO yasuo player I've seen before preason complained about him being weak. I'd say he was perfect before and now he's weaker

You do realize that there's shit like Fizz E, Fiora w, Morg shield, sivir spellshield that do pretty much the same thing right?

Sona Ping1 votes

It seems I have to reiterate "I'm not even complaining about Yasuo."

"NO yasuo player I've seen " Well there's the problem. You can even browse threads on this very website to see this yourself, and much more, you don't even have to look at other commentaries and criticism of LoL on other websites.

"You do realize that there's shit like Fizz E, Fiora w, Morg shield, sivir spellshield that do pretty much the same thing right?" I do realize those abilities exist. I also realize those abilities are materially different e.g. Sivir's spell-shield will block an ability once. And only abilities. I'm only estimating here but I imagine having Yasuo actually be like Sivir and only blocking one projectile is a change that would be found acceptable to those who want a change to windwall.

Left Hook Larry1 votes

Sivir's ability is on a shorter cd and isn't a skillshot and blocks all forms of cc not just projectiles. I'm sure most Yasuo mains would prefer this than a windwall

And before preseason there were no threads of people asking for Yasuo buffs. You can try to find some but you won't be able to unless it was some kid who has no idea what they're talking about

Stars Shaper3 votes

I would say no, Wind Wall should keep the 100% projectile deflection/destruction it already has.

This is because it is not meant to be a mere defense tool but Yasuo immunity window the same way Yi has his Alpha Strike, Fiora her E and Trynda his ultimate. Yasuo isn't a tankish character like Poppy so the purpose of their skills cannot be accomunated like that imo.

DunkinNoobs3 votes

No. Wind wall isn't something you should just be able to brute force through. It's his signature defensive tool that you need to play around, and that should not change. That would be like making Kayle's ult break if you do enough damage to it. The entire point of wind wall is to give Yasuo a guaranteed window in which he can operate when ranged threats are present. Making that window unreliable would make Yasuo unviable.

SSShutTheDuckUp2 votes

This is actually the first logical answer i have and thank you for that. But allow me to explain:

  1. About making Yasuo inviable - i said that it is not a suggestion, just a thought to bring some discussion. It is not a complaining topic, just my though what would make sense.

  2. I do not like playing Yasuo (do not find him fun), but i play against him. I am trying to be unbiased, but noone could be 100%. So i admit - my first though is "what would be good in terms of counterplay", and only after that - what would be good for him. I am still trying to think about both.

  3. Kayle has pretty one-sided usage of her ult - block the highest burst. They are not as easy to compare, because of their cd, duration, one of them is ult, the other - not, one of them protects area, the other - single member. Anyways - what I thought of : kayle is forced to use her ult in order to prevent higher burst. Would make sense if Yasuo is forced to do it against most dangerous projectile. Of course no Yasuo player would like that, but try to be unbiased - would that make sense?

Anyways, thank you again for your answer. You truly make a point and made me respect your opinion. Happy holidays!

LF Annie1 votes

its not really fair to compare a defencive BASIC ability to a defensive ULTIMATE ability. it should have the power of a Basic defencive ability so the rest of his kit could be less shitty.

NapaIm3 votes

Personally, I agree, but with the loss of so much utility he would need some power elsewhere to make up for it. Windwall is the ultimate defensive ability, and is actually potent enough to be an ult. Braum, who thematically has a similar spell, has a water down version. Windwall is a large part of his power budget, so he can have some power elsewhere to make room for the loss of a 4 second deny every projectile.

SSShutTheDuckUp1 votes

He will get some extra power soon, no matter what (RIOT confirmed AD assassin item next few patches, shame on them). However facing Yasuo i would accept if he has some power elsewhere if his WW is weakened.

Sona Ping1 votes

FYI: It's not "next few patches", it's more "next year".

Riot moves very, very, slowly.

JustMyBassCannon1 votes

[{quoted}](name=UselessAsF ck,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1ysvWbv0,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-12-18T22:45:01.355+0000)

P.S. Teemo is like 5 kg, how he can travel through the wall, while a giant rocket cannot?

Never underestimate the power of the Scout's code.

Also, the concept of Wind Wall is based on the DnD spell of the same name. Projectile attacks are forced off their path and miss their targets, and since the majority of projectile weapon ammunition is destroyed upon use, it's basically wasted. So the reason a giant rocket can't pass through Wind Wall is because it's forced off-path. Maybe it got thrown into the ground. Maybe it was flung straight upwards. Maybe it flew off to the side. We'll never know, because rather than randomize the projectile reaction to Wind Wall, Riot just went with, "It's gone now."

SSShutTheDuckUp1 votes

Scout's code OP.

BTW is Teemo worth to be champion? It would probably be better if he is considered projectile as well (joking)

JustMyBassCannon1 votes

Personally, I'm still waiting for them to rework him. He's kind of all over the board in terms of mechanical design, and could use some work.

SSShutTheDuckUp1 votes

Agree. I cannot imagine a role where he could quite fit right now

LF Annie1 votes

it would be a lot less frustrating ability if it just diverted the abilities that hit it, but it flat out deletes them. it has power on par with 40% of the ultimates in the game, as a basic ability.

JustMyBassCannon1 votes

But it also only removes one subset of abilities. Projectiles.

It doesn't have near the universal strength of so many other comparable abilities. Because it has a much more limited scope of effect, it needs to have some sort of power to make up for that gap.

i.e. "Yeah, the Kensai sucks if he's wielding anything but his favored weapon, but he will tear shit up with his favored weapon."

LF Annie1 votes

projectiles make up a large % of game mechanics for a singular basic ability to delete, if it diverted it, moved it, sent it backwards, anything is better than 100% negation of anything flying through air.

JustMyBassCannon1 votes

[{quoted}](name=LF Annie,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1ysvWbv0,comment-id=0005000100000000,timestamp=2015-12-20T22:40:13.478+0000)

projectiles make up a large % of game mechanics

Less than half of champions use ranged projectiles for basic attacks, and less than half of longer than melee-range spells are coded as projectiles that Wind Wall can block.

Sure, the number of projectiles isn't insignificant, but considering that Wind Wall isn't useful against the overwhelming majority of champion abilities, especially compared to every other defensive effect--Untargetability, Shielding, Resistance and Healing--there's a good reason why it's stronger when it does get to block something.

LF Annie1 votes

my real hate for it comes from the fact that i'm a braum main, and i'm jealous. it makes my sheild feel small.

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