How should Riot change the MMR/Ranked System?

Randomonium··2 votes·1,438 views

There's been a lot of outrage on the boards (rightfully so) about the matchmaking system and how it seems like the system is designed to force you to a 50% win rate by giving you worse and worse teammates the more you win.

A lot of this anger comes because a player's rank severely lags their MMR. A player may have the MMR of their true rank but due to the rank system it may taken them hundreds of games to get there. From personal experience when I was silver 1 trying to get into gold last season I was being matched against players who were gold 3 to platinum 4. Why the hell should someone have to beat high gold or low platinum players in order to get into gold 5?

However, I don't want this to be just a complaint thread. I want this to be a thread where we offer suggestions to Riot to improve the ranked experience. Please share how you'd like to see the ranked system changed.

Personally, I'd like to go back to a variant of an elo system. Obviously the numbers could be adjusted but this is the general idea of what I'd like to see:

Each rank broken into a 1,000 elo range: Bronze = 0 - 999 Silver = 1000 - 1999 Gold = 2000 - 2999 Platinum = 3000 - 3999 Diamond = 4000 - 4999 Master = 5000+ Challenger = top 200 of Masters

This makes it extremely easy to know what rank someone is. You know immediately if someone's rank is in the 2000s then they're roughly gold.

Players would be matched off their elo so that both teams would have equal combined elos and so that lane opponents would be the same elo, within a certain tolerance.

How much elo a player gets for a victory or how much they lose for a defeat would be dependent upon their win percentage over the past week (recalculated daily.) Base elo gained or lost per game would be 25. The amount a player would gain/lose would go up/down by 1 for ever 2 percentage points a player was above 50%.

Win% - Win - Loss 40% - 20 - 30 42% - 21 - 29 44% - 22 - 28 46% - 23 - 27 48% - 24 - 26 50% - 25 - 25 52% - 26 - 24 54% - 27 - 23 56% - 28 - 22 58% - 29 - 21 60% - 30 - 20

This would allow players to quickly rise or fall to the elo where they belonged. The system is also completely transparent so people aren't confused why they are losing more LP for a loss than gaining LP for a win.

Long term I'd even love individual ranks for each role (since the system knows what role it's assigning you when it makes the match.) This would resolve the whole "which ever team has more auto fills loses" argument. This would also encourage people to get better at multiple roles and give players who like to fill more incentive to do so.

Those are just my ideas. Feel free to share yours.

7 Comments

Lexyy2 votes

Remove that mmr matchmaking. Meaning if I'm S5 let me play with and against S4 and B1.

MysterQ1 votes
  1. Move Solo/Duo above Flex in the client. Why is the most popular option not listed first? I get that it is a team game, but if Solo/Duo is the "default" mode it should be on top. Or Flex should be promoted more to become the default.

  2. Get rid of placements/make them optional. I would much rather be place bronze 5 then do 10 placement games to get placed bronze 5maybe4. Like seriously, why am I wasting 10 games to maybe get placed into bronze 4. Just let me start climbing. I know for higher ranked players this is terrible. But let the plat play placements and get gold whatever. Or just get rid of placements and always place someone a few ranks below last season (what placement is already doing).

I just don't want to play 10 games that I don't care about, that don't matter at all.

  1. Complaint, the your MMR matters your rank matters thing is annoying. If I am bronze let me fight bronze. Once/IF I get to silver, then start pairing me up with silvers. If I am on a win-streak in bronze, don't expect me to carry my team in the next few games. It is a team game not a solo ego-boosting game. I am not saying I hate "lesser" teammates, but if I have 4 people who are objectively worse (by MMR) why am I being paired with them to average it out (if the queue is large enough to get a closer game). Honestly I don't even know the formula used, so I can't talk much on this.
Gregor Gysi1 votes

I agree, I too want elo back. With that being said I am a huge fan of "Elo" so I'd like the system to be similiar to chess. The old Elo numbers were similiar to those in Chess (with about 3000 being the best that is possible) and you understand why you gain/lose Elo. Now I do understand why Riot is not too fond of that system as it allows for a great deal of anxiety for those poor souls that are moving between eg Silver and Gold elo. One loss will put them into Silver so they are afraid to play.

To solve this problem I'd love some inspiration from chess: make it so that there are titles (but more titles than chess) that can be earned by staying in a certain elo range over a certain time while playing a certain amount of matches.

In addition to those titles there should also be titles that can be earnt in tournaments - I love playing tournaments but most people do not even know the tournament page and I think tournaments are the way League should really be played.

That means that you would get one title for the MMR range (Gold, Dia etc.) and another for the tournaments (the name of that title depends on the Elo of that tournament, LCS players would get a "Grand Master" title).

Both titles would be represented by badges in the loading screen, you keep the highest over the most recent one. That means if you are a Grandmaster in 2016 and get International master in 2017 you would keep the Grandmaster one. Same with the League title.

MysterQ1 votes

How do you stop tournament smurfs.

Gregor Gysi1 votes

Well, the same way as it is right now, by reporting them.

Randomonium1 votes

I like this a lot. I loved playing in tournaments but once I got Triumphant Ryze and they nerfed the RP prizes I stopped playing them.

As far as the demotion issue goes I have a solution that I forgot to mention in my original post. Have there be a buffer toward demotion. For example, in my system once you hit 1000 you get promoted to silver. My idea is that you wouldn't get demoted to bronze until you hit 900. This gives people some wiggle room after they get promoted not to get instantly demoted again.

DeathBurst1 votes

There's been a lot of outrage on the boards (rightfully so) about the matchmaking system and how it seems like the system is designed to force you to a 50% win rate by giving you worse and worse teammates the more you win.

Whaat? That's totally not how the system works. The system gives you better and better not worse and worse partners the more you win, both in your team and in the enemy team. In fact, you said :

Players would be matched off their elo so that both teams would have equal combined elos and so that lane opponents would be the same elo, within a certain tolerance.

But the first part is already the case, and the second part is impossible to implement (just take a few minutes to think about a few ways to game the system and see how you would go about trying to minimize them, I'll watch).

So say your ELO is 1000. You're matched with other people at around 1000 ELO. Then you win a bunch of match, and you get to 1200, so you're matched with other people around 1200. In both teams, not just the enemy team. You get better teammates on average.

But you also get better opponents, so you'll win less games. And if you got a lucky streak and you don't actually deserve 1200 ELOs, you'll lose a bit more than you win and you'll get down to 1100 or something.


The system forcing you to 50% winrate is a myth. The goal of matchmaking is to put you at 50%, but that is not how it actually performs the matching. It simply tries to match you against opponents (and teammates) of the same level as you, so you should naturally win 50% of the time.

All this misunderstanding comes from the fact that matchmaking doesn't actually know your true level of skills, it just has your ELO as the best information available. If you get a win streak and you get your ELO higher than your real skills, the matchmaking will give you matches too hard for you and you will lose, but that's fair, because you actually deserve to lose ELO.

And the system most definitely does NOT gives you bad teammates to force you to lose! Just try to see the situation from the point of you of every player. Because in your scenario there are three kinds of players (you, unfairly screwed; your bad team; the good enemy team) but for the system there is only one kind of players: those it has to match in order to create a game.

If it wanted to force a loss on you because you had won "too much", who does it put in the "bad team" with you? People from lower ELOs that are at 50% winrate? But why would it punish those players and give them a free loss? And who's gonna be in the "good team"? Because these lucky guys just got handed a free win. Who does the system should give this free win too?

Whatever way your turn it over, it just doesn't make any sense.


From personal experience when I was silver 1 trying to get into gold last season I was being matched against players who were gold 3 to platinum 4. Why the hell should someone have to beat high gold or low platinum players in order to get into gold 5?

If the system matches you against Gold 1 players (or gold 3 to plat 4, I don't care), it means the system think you deserve Gold 1. If it's right, you'll win 50% of your matches and all is nice and good. "But what about my Rank, it only displays Silver 1?!", you'll say. Yes, but it will still climb. You will only win 50% of your matches, but you will earn something like 30 pts per win, lose 15 pts per loss, and over 10 games (5W-5L), you'll have won 75 pts, almost a full division. You will climb. There is a little problem with Promos but I'll come back to it later.

But what about if the system is wrong, you don't actually deserve Gold 1, you just deserve Gold 3? You'll lose more than you win, because the system overestimates you, but you still deserve to be Gold, and you're still stuck in Silver. Totally unfair, right? ... Except you're not actually stuck. Over 10 games, you'll do something like 4W-6L, but with 30pts/win - 15pts/loss, you'll still get 30 more points in the end than when you began. You're still climbing, even with a negative winrate. But since you are below 50%, the system will understand it was overestimating you, it will correct your rating, and for the next 10 games you'll be matched against Gold 2, not Gold 1 anymore. Still too strong for you if you only deserve Gold 3, but every game you play the system gets closer and closer.

In the end, all is nice and good. (Problem is, "the end" is "after everyone has played a few hundreds games", and a lot of people don't play so much, so in reality, all is mostly nice and good with a few quirks sometimes.)


The problem with Promos: if the system correctly estimates your level and gives you a 50% winrate, well, you are kind of stuck with Promos. Winning a Best-of-3 means getting a 66% winrate, and a Best-of-5 a 60% winrate, and you can't do that with a system that gives you 50%. So the system I described above kind of screw you with Promos. But there are 2 factors that alleviate that: first, that's why Promo Helpers were introduced. With Promos Helpers, you need only 1 win over 2 matches for Bo3 (exactly 50% winrate), and 1 win over 3 matches for Bo5 (barely 33% percents), so you can pass them easily. Second, even without Promo Helper, we're talking about averages here. You may not get your Wins in the right order to actually pass the promo the first time, but with enough tries you'll get it, and when you're into the next division, you can start rocketing through league points right away.

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