@RiotMeddler/Repertoire/FeralPony/Balance team, we need a centralized discussion thread on Karma
**Update, 24/1/2016 ** The amount of Karma discussions that have popped up within this week is massive!
20/1/2016
Over the past few days, there has been an influx on thread and discussions concerning Karma. Ever since the immobile mages update has been scheduled or proposed for June 2016, a number of Karma fans have now come forward to ask if she is included within the list of updates. Aside from FeralPony who has mentioned potentials and opportunities for Karma, no one else has had any idea about said champion and some of have kept quiet.
Every time I see a Karma thread, the views and upvotes that it receives are meager and usually the thread sinks in a few hours later. I don't think people are uninterested, but that since so little people know much about Karma and she small a little player base, people are inclined to ignore her. Since a number of you from the balance team (or anyone involved) have motioned concerned players to share their thoughts about her, I believe it's high time we have a centralized thread for any Karma related discussion, so that we can keep track of the progress, feedbacks, complaints and concerns that player have for her.
There has been 7 topics over the span of 20 days and I've taken the initiative to compile a list of Karma-related threads for you to see. Bear in mind I'm only keeping track of up-to-date posts, since we are in the preseason, every argument or feedback should be properly applied to the given context.
Feedbacks on tweaks to Karma's kits
- A player's attempt at reworking Karma
- A player shares his experience of finding Karma underwhelming
- A player writes in to explain the need for Riot to update/rework her significantly
- A player explains the second time of Karma's current problem and why she deserves to be changed
_A player expresses his thoughts about how Karma's 5.10 changes had deepened her dentity crisis as a mage/support and how her reworked had split up the fanbase in to two different conflicting groups _
- A player offers how Riot's rework had split up Karma's fanbase in two different groups, resulting in a difficult situation for everyone
- How 5.10's changes gutted Karma's power and overall kit
Threads inquiring about Karma's inclusion for an update
- A player's concern for Karma in terms of whether she is slated for an update
- Another player inquiring if Karma is a part of the mage update
_Non-related thoughts about Karma's gameplay, usually concerning lore _
An article written to explain the ongoing issues of Karma in League
I've also taken the initiative to dig up and compile certain ask.fm questions concerning Karma from various Rioter's pages, and included a rework-brainstorming idea that I and another player had liaised up briefly last year to present.
Taken from FP's page
With Karma being stagnated and in a constantly underpowered but versatile state, are you considering Karma for another rework, even if just a partial one, for the immobile mage update? If so, would you be open for suggestions from an ex-Karma main?
I dont think a full rework is needed, but there is totally opportunity for the champion. I absolutely wouldn't oppose any suggestions, my team specifically isn't equipped for any type of large rework (Ex - we have no artists) but I think especially in terms of differentiating her from other champions there is some room. Good ideas are always welcome :)
Another question from FP's page
I dont think the question that I asked was pretty controversial, hostile or trolly or anything but harmless. It was a question about Immobile Mages and how you considered Karma as one and what you will do to make her unique. So are you not answering because you think that question is controversial?
Your question wasnt controversial at all. 95% of the questions I dont avoid, its more a volume issue where I have more questions than I can reasonably answer. She could be considered in the immobile mage camp, but shes kinda more of a mage/support hybrid. I dont think we'd need to do anything to her in the unique playing experience as she is already pretty unique to play as. Strategically though, why youd select her in particular beyond if she's just really powerful atm though is a much tougher question I dont have a solid answer for. No idea if she'll be included in the update, but suggestions are always appreciated.
@Ququron months ago
Okay..so we talk about voice performance. [...] (A bunch of consequent comments and questions about VO and Voice Actors. Pastebinned: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=HHbgAyjf )
Well. I have certainly have no doubt about your passion for this topic. I dont personally have a stake in which voice actor does a position or not, as I tend to look at the output moreso than who is doing the input. Though, I like Danielle, I think shes nice and did well on old Karma.
Voices, and the characters they represent, are very nuanced topics. Tone is incredibly subjective, and has a million and one different ways a subtle change can change expression.
As I mentioned in the first answer, there are several reasons why a voice can change. It could be several of them meshing together. It could be wanting to separate a character from others with similar voices (perhaps with Ashe, all three sisters sounded too similar? Hazarding a guess.). I can't say, I don't have the context behind the people who made the decisions- but Im sure they had their reasons. We don't aim to change for the sake of change.
A lot of your examples point towards updates that are over two years old now at this point. I know it doesnt excuse the errors then, but we are trying to do much better these days. We were young then. We'll revisit them someday, but I cant say in good confidence theyre worth looking at over other characters.
We've made our mistakes. Karma and Trundle were especially good ones that people still ding us on. Theyre not bad characters, but theyre not fully the character that was known before. We'll still make mistakes, but please trust that we're making efforts to not repeat them.
And no, I dont think MsPudding was Sivir.
Taken from many months back, only part of the original question is shown on Ghostcrawler's page
Surely you would have something to say about this or that you feel similarly in some lines? The Karma fanbase is small and its even smaller for Beta Karma fans. Surely you can reach out to them. Im even willing send it pages worth of Karma discussion to have you talking about her to the team again.
I wouldnt say she is in a state that is acceptable to us. I wasnt here for the original rework, so Id just be guessing at the goals, but we've had a lot more experience with reworks since then. She isnt actively being worked on at the moment, which I say not so you lose hope, but just in the spirit of being transparent, but we will get to her. >
There are many other Karma sources out there, but Im only compiling things that I can recall. Perhaps some other Karma players would like to chip in with the list of compiled discussion we have on hand.
FYI, before any of you comment...
Karma will be receiving mana cost buffs to help her in keeping up with the current meta, courtesy of Ricklessbandon
Karma
Focused Resolve (W) mana cost lowered to 50/55/60/65/70 from 70/75/80/85/90
You should also read on Karma's rework thoughts that was released back in 2012, to get an idea of what went on then.
http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=3197509&page=1#post35330526
For those of you who are interested in finding out her old abilities and old lore, they are included in the link below,
http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Karma/Background
That is all for now, I'll be reserving several spaces for discussion and doing intermittent works to update everything, so that we'll have a compiled list feedbacks to openly discuss.
Once again, constructive feedbacks are preferred. No belittling or standard DKF arguments needed.
