The enemy team is two tanks, one bruiser, ADC, and Soraka. How am I supposed to function as APC?

Yenn·Aug 17, 2017·60 votes·3,375 views

I cannot utilize Liandry's and I built Void Staff as my third item. I cannot do any damage with poke. I'm dying in seconds if anything gets in range of me. I cannot get in range of Soraka without one of the three bruisers jumping on me; on the off chance I do, her passive allows her to escape me to one of the bruisers. I cannot do anything against this team.

Can we please fix this? This is really fucking stupid. Or if this is intended, can Riot please explain the intended purpose of an APC, because I really have no fucking idea what the intended counter play in this scenario is.

83 Comments

KirbyCakeAug 17, 201740 votes

you don't, you're a second support with utility and only doing damage on people who build 0 mr items

NoPaxtAug 17, 20174 votes

^^ You don't always have to carry, but you can always play to win.

YennAug 17, 201714 votes

{quoted}

you don't, you're a second support with utility and only doing damage on people who build 0 mr items

Yeah, kind of pointless when the two tanks and bruisers are barreling into my team at 600+ MS, and many APCs have little to no utility.

SpoofghoulAug 17, 20174 votes

600+ movespeed

so they were playing Sion Rammus Kled

either that or it didn't happen

koshkyraAug 18, 20172 votes

Volibear Olaf Warwick

Q RenAug 18, 20171 votes

Anivia could've stopped that and probably many other mages.

Starcraft243verAug 17, 201726 votes

Well, that's just kassadin isnt good versus 3 tanks + Healer + Adc team. What's the problem exactly ?

He picked an APC melee assassin against a team you cannot assassinate, He got drafted. Get over it. Not all champions are designed to do well in every single situation.

That's dishonesty to be like "omg ap carries are useless" when you pick a very specific champion with huge weaknesses.

Exemples of ap carries who could have done well : Cassiopeia : bully tanks, prevent dashes. Kayle : Sustained damage to kill tanks, protect your adc Orianna : Control, utility, depush Taliyah Velkoz Veigar Vladimir Ziggs Utility, depush

Just having some depush and control on your champ would have been enough since it would prevent them to take towers.

zero356Aug 18, 20172 votes

One, Kayle should generally never be used as an example for balance. EVER. The rest is fine

Second, generally speaking, if he's countered in terms of comp, there still needs to be something he can do. Maybe not much, but something. And if there is literally nothing, then his team should be able to do a damn lot. In this case, I would say he should splitpush. None of them should be able to fight (or at least kill) him 1v1 and then he rotates faster because R

The DeckownerAug 17, 201726 votes

Syndra press the gameplay button on Soraka

Its All SkillzzAug 17, 201722 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Deckowner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1kT5BqOj,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2017-08-17T04:04:31.808+0000)

press the gameplay button on

no decent soraka is gonna let you get close to her to press R even then she is just gonna locket R and redemption back to full while you sit in middle of her team an get exploded. its true ap is super weak i still cant belive im able to make ap ezreal work in near diamond lvl with how weak ap items are.

LichKing234Aug 17, 20172 votes

Exploded is an understatement

Weiss GuertenaAug 17, 20175 votes

But you don't get it. As Syndra all you need to do is exist within half a screen of a squishy, smash your fist on the R button and they'll be deleted instantly with nothing they could've done about it. According to the boards at least.

zero356Aug 18, 20171 votes

She pressed the skill button

MattwikiAug 17, 201712 votes

Draft properly then?

If you don't have a frontline, then you will get dove all game. If you try to frontline as any APC against a comp like that, you will die.

You're Diamond, why are you complaining about stuff like this. You should know how the meta works by now, and be playing accordingly.

YennAug 17, 201730 votes

{quoted}

Draft properly then?

If you don't have a frontline, then you will get dove all game. If you try to frontline as any APC against a comp like that, you will die.

You're Diamond, why are you complaining about stuff like this. You should know how the meta works by now, and be playing accordingly.

'Haha yeah, just always pick last and only play ADCs in mid lane, why are you complaining about broken and imbalanced shit?'

Are you done posting?

RalanrAug 17, 20173 votes

So you can't be counter picked?

rtbf221651412Aug 17, 20177 votes

{quoted}

'Haha yeah, just always pick last and only play ADCs in mid lane, why are you complaining about broken and imbalanced shit?'

Are you done posting?

"I can't kill tanks as an Assassin!"

No shit sherlock. That is how the game works. You think a knife penetrates metal armor easily?

Did you get boosted or something? This is common knowledge for people below your elo.

DuskDaUmbreonAug 17, 20175 votes

Just gonna say that, depending on the type of metals used, yes. And it depends on how the armor is worked. If it's sheet plate, even I could punch a sufficiently durable knife through that.

But you do have a very valid point. OP is literately complaining about being counterpicked.

OyddAWqJ5rAug 17, 20178 votes

Utility. Your job is to provide utility to the team as well as consistent magic damage to force the enemy to build magic resist and therefore less armor so your ADC and other physical damage components of your team can do more damage.

This is how it's always been.

YennAug 17, 201712 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sleeper Cell,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1kT5BqOj,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2017-08-17T03:51:15.446+0000)

Utility. Your job is to provide utility to the team as well as consistent magic damage to force the enemy to build magic resist and therefore less armor so your ADC and other physical damage components of your team can do more damage.

This is how it's always been.

Except no, that's not how it's always been. Once upon a time, MR was hard to itemize, AP carries had higher AP values, and you could deal with health stacking via DFG.

OyddAWqJ5rAug 17, 20177 votes

Once upon a time AD was hard to itemize against too. Thus why we had rampant Tristana's, Jax's and Yi's.

Don't spread fake news fam.

Munchbox01Aug 17, 20177 votes

You have to play Champions with extremely high and consistent DPS/Burst and a form of hard CC, in my case Velkoz who can whittle people down with consistent True damage procs and provide decent peel for your team and slow running enemies.

Anything else is pretty much just a handicap for your team 9/10 depending on enemy team comp, you're sadly not allowed to play what you want anymore because the game just doesn't allow for it. I'm just lucky that what I consider fun is actually viable.

nice tableAug 17, 20176 votes

by a apc you mean an ap assassin that's supposed to be countered by this team comp right? because that's what you were playing while the enemy tanks and bruiser were fed and you lost your lane.

RankOneUgandaAug 17, 20175 votes

double triple tank comps are way too strong.

as an ad assassin its worse. at least you can waveclear safely and one hit the ad carry or poke them down

Iota ThetaAug 17, 20175 votes

Time...for more context! Because all you told us was their basic team comp and that you were an APC. (Hope I found the right one)

Enemy: Gnar (11/4/16), Rammus (8/2/21), Galio (5/4/17), Xayah (13/4/11), Soraka (4/2/25).

OP's team: Yorick (6/11/1), Vi (5/8/5), OP as Kassadin (1/6/4), Caitlyn (1/7/4), Brand 5/9/2).

Now, I don't know who had had an early lead, how the fights typically went. But you probably couldn't have done much different because they have a stronger teamfight comp, even just a 4 man fight while Gnar splits. A Banshee's Veil and/o Zhonya's Hourglass might've helped since you had no defense to begin with, then the spellshield and stasis could've help you survive dying until you can ult out.

Other than fighting, have cait, brand, and maybe vi stall a lane while you and Yorick split push, because that's where your team has more power it seems. After all, your team got 10 towers, so either bashing on the nexus or 1 tower short of doing so.

paisyAug 17, 20175 votes

Okay the enemy team counter picked you, so what

Linna ExcelAug 17, 20174 votes

Can your champ split push?

YennAug 17, 20178 votes

[{quoted}](name=Linna Excel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1kT5BqOj,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-08-17T02:25:42.520+0000)

Can your champ split push?

Kassadin, no. I've had this exact scenario with Ahri, Kennen, and other AP champions: they just cannot function against compositions like this.

Very few mids can split push either way, they get shit on by high mobility bruisers if caught alone away from a turret.

Handin Out NapsAug 17, 201712 votes

Kassadin is a really good split pusher though.

InstaPoppyAug 17, 20173 votes

I agree, if you work together to set up some vision kassadin can splitpush very well and be long gone before they come to stop you.

DuskDaUmbreonAug 17, 20174 votes

Ahri does just fine in this situation. E>Q literately anyone (or just Q, if you're afraid of an assassin hitting you), back off, wait for CD, repeat. Soraka has a limited health pool. As long as you're evading her Qs and consistently harassing, she'll run out eventually.

Or you can split-push as her, since it's hard for many champions to pin her down.

SqueyAug 17, 20174 votes

called kiting back and peeling for ur adc who will kill them all. If there soraka or adc get out of position then its your time to shine.

Ur not saying which champ you are playing but pretty much all mages can do at least this much. If u happen to have high dps like corki, syndra, ori, taliyah, cass, or malz then your pretty effective against front lines.

rtbf221651412Aug 17, 20174 votes

item 3116 item 3151 item 3135 item 3165 item 3001 item 3102 item 3111 item 3027 item 3020 item 3157

So you are telling me out of all these items, you couldn't build at least 6 of them?

And that Crystal Scepter has no cc?

What is wrong with you?

ThefrostyvikingAug 17, 20173 votes

Depends on the champ you were playing i think?

Looking at comments i saw a Syndra so i´ll go and make a example of this.

Just stand back and DPS at first, stun them if they seem about to do something important if possible and when you have enough speheres out just ult to kill any possible in target in range because 1 dead is better than 0.

Her DPS between W and Q at some point isn't bad at all for a non dps mage.

GreatWhiteNorthAug 17, 20173 votes

Beg your adc to build item 3123 item 3033 (But ur adc likes losing, so).

Done25Aug 17, 20172 votes

Who were you even playing as?

Mecha IncognitoAug 17, 20172 votes

I don't understand all the AP stuff on these boards. When I play mages I don't ever feel like I'm at a disadvantage at all.

Though playing against Soraka at the moment can feel like AIDS because of Ardent, but that's just a broken item.

Shadow HazardAug 17, 20172 votes

Flash -> unload -> hourglass -> pray the team follows up

Dream HighAug 17, 20172 votes

I go liandries void staff then rylais if i manage to get to that point in the game. Just cc and peel for your adc as much as you can.

Elkington VIAug 17, 20172 votes

Grievous wounds and penetration. item 3165

You're not going to be killing everyone unless you're fed, but you can sure as hell make them easier to kill with GW and capped CDR.

Kitty Cat ToshaAug 17, 20172 votes

Pick Velkoz?

AlmightyAug 17, 20172 votes

Question: What AP Carry were you playing?

Almighty.

AimléssAug 17, 20172 votes

Everybody has comps where they can't do anything in, an assassin vs 2 tanks a bruiser, w.e mid and a Tristana is gonna be useless, cause he's just gonna get cc'd all day and the only target he can get on, is an ADC with a ton of peel and an escape. Or an ADC against 3 assassins, a mage support, and w.e ADC is gonna be useless cause they will pop like a balloon every single fight.

Yes, everyone has this same problem not just APC, but I upvoted this, why? Because that is completely retarded, this isn't Over Watch, we can't change our champ mid game, so why the hell can our champion be determined 'useless' in champ select??? That just makes another factor of this game that is luck decided. Riot should add a ton more items, specific runes, and summoner spells, so players can build very specific items for specific team comps, so losing in champ select can somehow be dealt with in game.

Dr PoroAug 17, 20171 votes

As an ARAM player, I can safely say that mages really suck in the lategame. You have to gain an advantage during the early or midgame. That's where mages shine.

I'd like to see some mage items scale better into lategame. Luden's for example becomes pretty useless at this point. It needs more AP scaling on the passive.

Sad TyrantAug 17, 20174 votes

unless you are veigar.

no what we need it bigger AP ratios on champions that need them. so if they wish to get a Rabadon's, they shouldn't feel bad about it

Dr PoroAug 17, 20171 votes

Yes, you're right. There are some top tier mages that would just abuse an item buff. I didn't think that through enough.

Sad TyrantAug 18, 20171 votes

I can't tell if Sarcasm, inflection is so hard through text.

Dr PoroAug 18, 20171 votes

Haha, no it's not sarcasm. I actually changed my mind because of your comment and admitted you're right. I know that doesn't comply to the etiquette of the gameplay boards. Sorry for causing confusion.

DengedenAug 18, 20171 votes

Waveclear, CC and poke.

OHminusAug 18, 20171 votes

I was more engrossed in figuring out which APC you were playing than reading your actual post.

Let me guess... since you can't utilize Liandry's that eliminates Malzahar Morgana Cassiopeia Velkoz AurelionSol Viktor Swain Rumble immediately

Since you don't do any damage with poke, I guess you're not Xerath Ziggs Azir Anivia Orianna Syndra Lux Ahri Heimerdinger Taliyah Leblanc

If you die within seconds of them getting in range of you (aside tip: Zhonyas), I guess you're not Ekko Fizz Lissandra Vladimir

If you can't get onto the Soraka, that doubly rules out Fizz, and I guess that rules out Annie too (because she can also use Liandries quite efficiently)