Nautilus Nerfs

Budupops·Feb 27, 2015·9 votes·5,271 views

Supposedly patch 5.5 was supposed to buff tanks, but just like veigar's "compensation" it is just another set of guttings to make them even more weak.

Nautilus Titan's Wrath (W) damage while shielded decreased to 15/30/45/60/75 from 40/55/70/85/100 Ripetide (E) cooldown lowered to 6/5.5/5/4.5/4 from 10 at all ranks Ripetide (E) mana cost lowered to 40/50/60/70/80 from 60/70/80/90/100 Ripetide (E) AP ratio lowered to .3 from .5 Ripetide (E) slow duration lowered to 1.25 from 2 seconds

Going to have to back on first camp without leash or second camp with leash (no more lvl 3 on first run) AP ratios lowered, he was just dealing too much damage lower slow time for no reason

20 mana buff that doesnt do sht and lower cooldown on a more useless spell.

TY rito, i used to love playing nautilus jungle but now i can no longer. Also looks my my nautilus support is going to have to go as well. Oh well, it is worth it for #lcsbigplays

Edit: This nerf will hit his early game hard but buff his lategame

40 Comments

MatezoideFeb 27, 20153 votes

LeeSin Hahwhawhahehauheauheauheauheuhaueaha

Seriously now. He is getting buffed.

SleepyLionCubFeb 27, 20153 votes

If it ACTUALLY is a nerf. then they will fix it.

To me it seems like a big ass buff though. Now u can riptide, auto, q, riptide combo people.

AbyssphereFeb 28, 20153 votes

"His W is core to his clear"

The whole point of these changes is to make it so E replaces W for that. Start E at level 1, then W at 2. It's not a nerf just because you can't bring yourself to start a different ability.

BudupopsFeb 28, 20151 votes

When was the last time you played nautilus?

Sightless66Feb 28, 20153 votes

About 2 hours ago. On the PBE. It's fine.

insaiyanbaccaMar 1, 20153 votes

you know if you had presented a valuable argument and didnt have that idiot insulting people in the comments i could have agreed but unfortunately i see neither and i believe its a buff

IncognonymousMar 1, 20152 votes

{quoted}

you know if you had presented a valuable argument and didnt have that idiot insulting people in the comments i could have agreed but unfortunately i see neither and i believe its a buff

Read my first couple of posts. Before these guys kept spouting Riot-style rhetoric and triggering me.

This is a nerf:

-W damage nerfed incredibly hard (62.5% loss at level 1, 25% at max) -Slow duration nerfed on E -Ratio nerfed on E

The cooldown reduction is fine, it's freaking great, but the mana reduction isn't enough to sustain this change as a buff the way people believe it is. Maybe they'll just have to see it in action first. In terms of pure damage, the incredible nerf to W is NOT compensated by E having a greater uptime. It simply isn't, and again, I feel this has to be reiterated-- the damage ratio is being nerfed with this change, by what-- 40%? That's enormous. Even if you build minimal AP, the difference is substantial.

TLDR: Nautilus will not be able to spam E to clear after these changes anymore than he can now. He does not have the mana pool for it.

Why isn't mana a problem currently? W is used to clear. E is used to facilitate W's damage in terms of catching someone and holding them in range. You fire E off, you catch up, you hit them. Damage splashes to other enemies also proximal in your slow/splash field. W can be sustained with more health.

Meanwhile, E scales.... off a stat you don't build, and even if you did the ratio just got dumpstered-- in fact, lower than W does offensively. So why reorient Naut to E instead of W? What's the rationale? You won't be able to spam it every time it's up-- you'll go OOM. It doesn't scale well. It doesn't slow well (or rather, it does less now). It doesn't even do that much damage barring maximum targets and maximum wave hits, even then it's not comparable to the sustained prechange W damage for a given period, assuming maximum targets. I'm not saying W is perfect, but it's very easily fixed.

Honestly, the worst thing about this is just.... why? Why his E? Of all the the things that Naut needs that could be buffed, why E? Why not his cooldowns across the board? His mana costs across the board? His physical damage passive? His on hit damage being tied to his shield being up? His laughable movespeed? His practically useless terrain hook? Naut had so many areas that could've been fixed with tiny changes that would've instantly revolutionized how playing him feels WITHOUT changing how he played, necessarily. Why focus on his E? This is Zed's Attack Speed nerf all over again.

IncognonymousFeb 27, 20152 votes

Oh my fucking god, this better be a joke.

Pucking PurrfectFeb 27, 20152 votes

What the heck?

Is this for real?

Meep ManFeb 27, 20152 votes

I dont think you guys play Nautilus. His E does a lot of damage, usually hitting the target twice and always hitting a monster 2 times, sometimes even 3 if they are a big buff monster. The slow down time has been reduced to 1.5 seconds from 4 seconds with 40% CDR. This is a pretty major buff, slightly increasing his clear speed and heavily increasing his team fight presence. Also, the Jungler Tank enchantment is getting a buff that favors Nautilus incredibly, increasing his shield strength by incredible amounts and adding even more damage to his normal clear speed and increasing his team fight damage overall.

Also, who builds AP on Nautilus?

IncognonymousFeb 27, 20157 votes

[{quoted}](name=Inept Maverick,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1bFGk58s,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2015-02-27T23:20:46.796+0000)

I dont think you guys play Nautilus. His E does a lot of damage, usually hitting the target twice and always hitting a monster 2 times, sometimes even 3 if they are a big buff monster. The slow down time has been reduced to 1.5 seconds from 4 seconds with 40% CDR. This is a pretty major buff, slightly increasing his clear speed and heavily increasing his team fight presence. Also, the Jungler Tank enchantment is getting a buff that favors Nautilus incredibly, increasing his shield strength by incredible amounts and adding even more damage to his normal clear speed and increasing his team fight damage overall.

Also, who builds AP on Nautilus?

I do play Nautilus. W contributes more to his clear than E, which is why you start W. Nautilus's gameplay revolves around W. Why change that to E? While nerfing the damage and slow duration no less. What the fuck.

MorawrgFeb 28, 20151 votes

I suppose we should just be thankful they aren't nerfing the %max HP scaling on his W in light of the new tank jungle item. This change is good for his late game teamfight cc but dicks for his early camp clearing ability, which is the part he struggles with most as it stands. However, I do like the idea of just spamming out riptides every two and a half seconds late game, that will be lulzy.

Knight SoIaire Feb 28, 20155 votes

I do play Nautilus. W contributes more to his clear than E, which is why you start W.

and thats what the are changing , duh

also you know that you get level 2 and a 6 sec cd riptide after getting blue ? 6 sec cd is equal to old nautilus with 40% cdr

i think that he will become a clearing monster because his riptide will have insanely low cooldown while shield scales of his max hp, you dont realy need to max it anymore

IncognonymousFeb 28, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hagane No Arashi,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1bFGk58s,comment-id=000600000001,timestamp=2015-02-28T11:51:28.690+0000)

and thats what the are changing , duh

also you know that you get level 2 and a 6 sec cd riptide after getting blue ? 6 sec cd is equal to old nautilus with 40% cdr

i think that he will become a clearing monster because his riptide will have insanely low cooldown while shield scales of his max hp, you dont realy need to max it anymore

Except all that's fucking garbage. They change him to some kind of Sej/Amumu AoE pumping clone, nerf his soft CC (that's WHAT Naut is known for, why nerf it), nerf the attached damage ratio, and take the onus away from his completely novel on hit mechanic (that works fine, except for the easily rectified mistake that it's attached to his shield) and you kids are thanking them for it? Hop off Riot's dick, I'm so sick of those bastards ruining champs.

Not to mention that literally every part of his kit is STILL gated by mana and high cooldowns. What the FUCK does this change? Nothing. It's a nerf. End of story.

qetzelFeb 28, 20152 votes

It is a buff overall given that Riptide as a lower cooldown. Try thinking of it this way: Riptide before gave a 2 second slow per cast. This is 2 seconds every 10 seconds, or 12 every 60 Now, Riptide slows for 1.5 seconds a cast. Early game, this is 1.5 seconds every 6 seconds, or 15 every 60. Later on, this is 1.5 every 4 seconds, or 22.5 every 60 (60 seconds chosen for easier numbers). The point is, the slow has less downtime now.

Looking at the changes, you might also want to try starting with E. It could improve his clear times.

IncognonymousFeb 28, 20151 votes

{quoted}

It is a buff overall given that Riptide as a lower cooldown. Try thinking of it this way: Riptide before gave a 2 second slow per cast. This is 2 seconds every 10 seconds, or 12 every 60 Now, Riptide slows for 1.5 seconds a cast. Early game, this is 1.5 seconds every 6 seconds, or 15 every 60. Later on, this is 1.5 every 4 seconds, or 22.5 every 60 (60 seconds chosen for easier numbers). The point is, the slow has less downtime now.

Looking at the changes, you might also want to try starting with E. It could improve his clear times.

It would be a net buff if W remained as is. With the attached nerf to W it's obvious this is meant to entirely shift his PvE and playstyle. I'm not anti-E changes, I'm anti-W nerfs.

Slow reapplication is useless when this game has as much instantaneous, soft-CC immune mobility. Slow duration at least allows for a chance for extended combat, however little.

Knight SoIaire Feb 28, 20151 votes

Slow reapplication is useless when this game has as much instantaneous, soft-CC immune mobility. Slow duration at least allows for a chance for extended combat, however little.

well they cant make it a knockup with the amount of hard cc he actualy has

owerall his damage will go up the main change is that the his main damaging skill will change, but i think thats also better his shield scales mainly with hp (i think hp gives him more than base values) and its realy unpredictabble way of increasing damage since it can be broken and you can get ignored

IncognonymousMar 1, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hagane No Arashi,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1bFGk58s,comment-id=0006000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2015-02-28T21:25:18.120+0000)

well they cant make it a knockup with the amount of hard cc he actualy has

owerall his damage will go up the main change is that the his main damaging skill will change, but i think thats also better his shield scales mainly with hp (i think hp gives him more than base values) and its realy unpredictabble way of increasing damage since it can be broken and you can get ignored

No, but they can not nerf the slow duration. Even at max rank, max CDR, at current slow duration the enemy will still have a moment to escape. The shield being tied to damage is very easily fixed. That's not even an excuse anymore.

Knight SoIaire Mar 1, 20153 votes

Even at max rank, max CDR, at current slow duration the enemy will still have a moment to escape. The shield being tied to damage is very easily fixed. That's not even an excuse anymore.

yeah but right now at full cdr enemy will be sure to escape once the slow ends with this change you get a better shot at reaplying it, thus getting better damage off and better cc off

so its like saying that you dont like the change because it still sucks, despite it sucking less than what we have currently

also the shield being tied to damage problemm the entire thematic concept of the shield is to give him damage while it persists, i think you just wanted to make his damage amp last when shield breaks (not gonna happen i htink)

Knight SoIaire Feb 28, 20152 votes

nerf his soft CC (that's WHAT Naut is known for, why nerf it)

naut is known for sheer amount of cc, nnot for soft cc

I'm so sick of those bastards ruining champs.

me too but notice one thing veigar and morde got indeed nerfed, they barely even got something that would compensate the nerfs naut gets a total powershift beetwen his abilities that increases both his damage and his cc while also making him more reliable

maybe this will be their first good change in this season

Not to mention that literally every part of his kit is STILL gated by mana and high cooldowns. What the FUCK does this change? Nothing. It's a nerf. End of story.

yeah besides the fact that his e will have like 2.6 sec cd if you get 40% cdr (high cooldowns you said) him still picking the purple smite up, so mana gets obsolete and him being able to get a frozen heart ?

he is a tank, the only thing that gates him is his base dmg and cooldowns, he can itemize the rest or just smite stuff

unlike you i dont cry. becuase i did read the changes and i compared gains and losses, naut gains more than he loses so its a buff

IncognonymousMar 1, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hagane No Arashi,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1bFGk58s,comment-id=00060000000100000001,timestamp=2015-02-28T21:19:27.551+0000)

naut is known for sheer amount of cc, nnot for soft cc

me too but notice one thing veigar and morde got indeed nerfed, they barely even got something that would compensate the nerfs naut gets a total powershift beetwen his abilities that increases both his damage and his cc while also making him more reliable

maybe this will be their first good change in this season

yeah besides the fact that his e will have like 2.6 sec cd if you get 40% cdr (high cooldowns you said) him still picking the purple smite up, so mana gets obsolete and him being able to get a frozen heart ?

he is a tank, the only thing that gates him is his base dmg and cooldowns, he can itemize the rest or just smite stuff

unlike you i dont cry. becuase i did read the changes and i compared gains and losses, naut gains more than he loses so its a buff

Yes, soft CC is included in his identity. It's a massive AoE, multihit, long duration slow. How in god's name is that not counted in his thematic total of CC abilities?

He does have fucking abysmal cooldowns. He will have fucking abysmal cooldowns after. This is not a buff. It's bringing Naut in line with other tank junglers because Riot despises variability.

You don't cry because you are a quisling, appeasing, yellow belly who will take Riot's load to the face and ask for more. This is not a debate. Naut was nerfed.

Knight SoIaire Mar 1, 20153 votes

He will have fucking abysmal cooldowns after.

2.6 seconds on his e compared to 6 secoinds, both values with 40% cdr

realy abyysmall

This is not a debate. Naut was nerfed

just like ahri got nerfed when riot removed her charm amp and made her burst almoust equal to the one with thte charm amp

when they proposed it i also thougfh it was a nerf

cry yourself to death, but take some time to calculate how much he gains and how much he loses, compare one to another, and cry some more

i base myself on logic, it never fails

Judge ArcadiaMar 1, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hagane No Arashi,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1bFGk58s,comment-id=0006000000010000000100000000,timestamp=2015-03-01T11:02:06.477+0000)

2.6 seconds on his e compared to 6 secoinds, both values with 40% cdr

realy abyysmall

just like ahri got nerfed when riot removed her charm amp and made her burst almoust equal to the one with thte charm amp

when they proposed it i also thougfh it was a nerf

cry yourself to death, but take some time to calculate how much he gains and how much he loses, compare one to another, and cry some more

i base myself on logic, it never fails

EU > NA in this regard.

Knight SoIaire Mar 1, 20152 votes

what floats your boat

Judge ArcadiaMar 1, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Except all that's fucking garbage. They change him to some kind of Sej/Amumu AoE pumping clone, nerf his soft CC (that's WHAT Naut is known for, why nerf it), nerf the attached damage ratio, and take the onus away from his completely novel on hit mechanic (that works fine, except for the easily rectified mistake that it's attached to his shield) and you kids are thanking them for it? Hop off Riot's dick, I'm so sick of those bastards ruining champs.

Not to mention that literally every part of his kit is STILL gated by mana and high cooldowns. What the FUCK does this change? Nothing. It's a nerf. End of story.

Except the fact it is a BUFF, whether you are capable if seeing it or not. Like others have said, he will be able to have consistent damage now. Currently he has to relay on his W for his entire clear thanks to high CDs. And God if the Enemy jungler decides he want to come say hi, all they would have to do is wait until you shield goes down, and boom they now hve a kill or at the very least your flash.

The nerf to his soft CC is a response to the uptime and how frequent you will be able to use Riptide. You effectively will have a 1.15 down time on the slow with 40% CDR. (If I did my math right)

So stop bitching.

IncognonymousMar 1, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Judge Arcadia,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1bFGk58s,comment-id=00060000000100000002,timestamp=2015-03-01T11:00:37.754+0000)

Except the fact it is a BUFF, whether you are capable if seeing it or not. Like others have said, he will be able to have consistent damage now. Currently he has to relay on his W for his entire clear thanks to high CDs. And God if the Enemy jungler decides he want to come say hi, all they would have to do is wait until you shield goes down, and boom they now hve a kill or at the very least your flash.

The nerf to his soft CC is a response to the uptime and how frequent you will be able to use Riptide. You effectively will have a 1.15 down time on the slow with 40% CDR. (If I did my math right)

So stop bitching.

Riot's gifts are poisoned. Once the Naut homogenization goes through, we shall see. You can sit here and continue this circle jerk with your buttbuddies until you're blue in the face. I'm out. It won't matter when the numbers roll in and it's obvious how garbage these changes are. How unoriginal the new Naut will be.

ModAcademy KaynFeb 28, 20154 votes

So, relying on a shield that can be taken down is what you prefer for waveclear? Not a low mana, not to mention blue buff, low cd aoe that can hit multiple enemies? While you also have your shield out?

futuresight23Feb 28, 20153 votes

{quoted}

So, relying on a shield that can be taken down is what you prefer for waveclear? Not a low mana, not to mention blue buff, low cd aoe that can hit multiple enemies? While you also have your shield out?

That is the biggest takeaway. I'm certain every Nautilus player has run into that scenario where they are clearing a camp and then the shield breaks and you start taking a lot of damage while your damage output on the camp goes way south. God forbid if the enemy jungler runs into you without your shield CD up because you won't be able to fight that battle. At least a lower CD Riptide with the same damage as before (assuming you built tank) increases Nautilus's ability to actually fight and clear the jungle without his shield being up.

IncognonymousFeb 28, 20151 votes

{quoted}

So, relying on a shield that can be taken down is what you prefer for waveclear? Not a low mana, not to mention blue buff, low cd aoe that can hit multiple enemies? While you also have your shield out?

No, I'd prefer Riot give Nautilus a meaningful buff in line with his playstyle and make the on hit damage passive on his W (and single target) with the splash corresponding to the shield. The E as it stands exists so that, you guessed it, Naut can stick to people and hit them with his huge fucking anchor. It's AoE, because, you guessed it, his on hit is splashed. This nerfs the duration of his slow, and the damage from his W. Naut's E was never about it's AoE damage, it merely facilitated the splashing of W's damage to multiple targets.

This changes that for no fuckin' raisin.

Knight SoIaire Feb 28, 20151 votes

Also, who builds AP on Nautilus?

only trinity force

it wrecks just too hard

but yeah owerall its a buff 25 dmg less oh his w which was unreliable anyway 20% less ratio on e, he was a tank so ap wants used on him anyway, its barely even a change less slow

but he gets to cast ower twice as much riptides as he used to meaning if you want numbers themn lets go one pre nerf riptide dealt its base dmg +0,5 your ap 2 after nerf riptides deal 2x the base dmg +0,6 of your ap

owerall you were able to get 6 sec cd on pre nerf riptide with 40% cdr now you get to have lower cooldown without that cdr and with cdr you will get a spanking 2,4 cd on his riptide so for someone who uses mainly base dmg its an insane buff

owerall i think that riot did a good job when they decided to pack his power into riptide instead of titans wrath if riot would pack power into his shield then nautilus would be only a threat till shield breaks, by buffing riptide they actuamy made him strong without creating any toxic interactions, like adc just tapping him twice to break the shield and ignoring him completly

so owerall conclusion is that they enforced his shield as a shield, and made him able to clear fast

StephenizgodFeb 28, 20152 votes

Hmm this is actually a buff though.

The Bearded BardMar 1, 20152 votes

ITT: People that don't play Nautilus pretend they know what they're talking about.

Seriously, the only thing that's bad about these changes is that I might have to be a bit more conservative with my mana. Wouldn't mind a half mana cost refund when using the Q to get around the jungle.

ModAcademy KaynFeb 27, 20151 votes

Hey, you've seen the new Jungler enchantment? A 'sunfire cape' like item that stacks with Sunfire Cape? Add that on to his shield, and watchu get? Edit: Was misinformed about the sunfire cape stack thing. Ignore.

MorawrgFeb 28, 20152 votes

It won't stack with Sunfire, since Sunfire Cape's recipe is being changed to build out of Bami's Cinder and the unique passive will carry the same name of Immolate.

Judge ArcadiaMar 1, 20151 votes

Damn this dude salty over buffs. Im sorry you are a one trick pony who doesn't understand why things get shifted around to what they are.

I wish you the best of luck in your gaming.

IncognonymousMar 1, 20151 votes

The salt from my tears is still less salty than Riot's semen. Supporters of these changes should probably have their sodium levels checked.

DoFrMar 1, 20151 votes

this affect his level 1 clear.

usually i can in this current jungle clear my blue or red as my first clear, thanks to my 80-120 damage from shield, and not to mention the shield ITSELF shields me from most of the damage, making his First buff clear is somewhat easy.

i'd say give him his 40 Damage on his FIRST Point, and then reduce it at later levels.

his W is essential on his early jungle monster

with this current changes i hontesly thought riot would give nautilus his full duration on W, and not to limit it on his shield (seeing the mega nerfs on his W damage)

from 40 (20 damage per second) to 15 (wtf? 7.5 damage Per second?) that went from Titan's Wrath to a Titan's Fart, and don't get exicted just yet, the damage gets removed completely, like you don't get your 100 damage on hit (that's also 50 per second btw) anymore, it's just a lame 75 dmg.

i enjoyed playing top lane nautilus while it lasted, i had such an amazing run with him.