"The power of chilling smite was too high."

Budupops··52 votes·3,382 views

So instead of nerfing the power of chilling smite they nerf the power of smite. Another nerf to tank and low sustain junglers who take item 3713 and the few champs that takeitem 3715 . (Not mentioning item 3711 because no one uses it) #lcsbigplays LeeSin

Edit: This nerf to smite actually is more of a nerf to skirmishers and poachers than to trailblazer but still makes trailblazer weaker in certain scenarios. For example, your team mate is trying to catch up to an enemy under tower to kill him. Then the enemy minions come and act as a blockade. Unfortunately you are standing too far away to smite the minions and let your teammate secure the kill. Example 2: Amumu and Nautilus used to be able to use their Q on the enemy from 750 units away when minions were blocking them(This is where naut will shoot his q, then right as it is about to hit some minions he smites them so he gets a "sneaky" catch). Now they have to stand 250 units closer to the enemy team, in auto attack range of the ADC which will take them down in 2-3 seconds anyway, so its basically a terrible stratergy now.

46 Comments

Lord Graves III5 votes

Wait....what does this range nerf do to bother trailblazer? Even if you really needed smite range, its about the same against most monsters anyway.

This is a straight up buff to trailblazer. Its the only smite that doesn't give a damn about the new range. Poachers got hit hard, but poachers is for games where you decide to just live in the enemy jungle and ruin their jungler's life.

Phife4 votes

I'd 100% agree with you but lee sin isn't even good... hes not top tier any more.

Budupops22 votes

in lcs he is, especially now that they nerfed jarvan

Phife3 votes

{quoted}

in lcs he is, especially now that they nerfed jarvan

lmao, is this your pro bronze strats speaking?

Budupops24 votes

lee sin main detected

Phife4 votes

{quoted}

lee sin main detected

i havent played lee sin as my "main" since season 2.

Joe Dredd11 votes

Please don't give in to the retardation.

Narasimha1 votes

Normally, I don't really care, but this is pretty much the worst argument there is. Honestly. You are literally saying "He is top tier for less than 5% of everyone who plays League." And hell, that even makes sense. They ARE the top 5%. Of course they can use Lee well enough to make him top tier. The difference is, not everyone else can. You have to look at the bigger picture.

Budupops1 votes

Riot has specifically said they monitor lcs more than the majority of players elo(silver).

Ulquiorra9953 votes

{quoted}

Normally, I don't really care, but this is pretty much the worst argument there is. Honestly. You are literally saying "He is top tier for less than 5% of everyone who plays League." And hell, that even makes sense. They ARE the top 5%. Of course they can use Lee well enough to make him top tier. The difference is, not everyone else can. You have to look at the bigger picture.

The bigger pictures no better.

Lee is overloaded in terms of utility and in terms of damage. That is a fact. This means that, while there are noob Lees, facing a competent Lee is frustrating as hell since he will always have advantage because he is allowed to have ability damage that rivals assassins and support-level utility. Against a good Lee there is very little you can do.

youngjake935 votes

{quoted}

in lcs he is, especially now that they nerfed jarvan

He is less of a priority pick than J4, Vi, Rengar and Rek'Sai. He is a 2nd tier jungler and comfort pick. I've even seen Meteos pick Elise over Lee Sin multiple times and Elise is awful.

Budupops6 votes

http://lol.gamepedia.com/2015_LCK_Spring/Scoreboards/Round_Robin/Overview

Korean LCS: Riot's Favorite. Vi : 0 games JarvanIV : 57 games, 45% win rate. He got nerfed this patch so expect him to go down. Rengar : 7 games,43% win rate RekSai : 13 games but 38 bans, 62% winrate. Keep in mind this is an overview of the entire spring season, including all the patches(Rek'Sai had to get nerfed twice) LeeSin : 47 games, 47% winrate. Stronger than all of the champions you listed besides Rek'Sai.

Phife3 votes

47% win rate... freewin?

Budupops4 votes

higher than jarvan

Phife2 votes

did i say j4 is OP?

cause hes not.

Budupops7 votes

Then I guess people banned him for being too Demacian?

Dengeden1 votes

His win rate everywhere else is pathetic but what use are statistics if they don't prove your point, amirite?

youngjake931 votes

{quoted}

http://lol.gamepedia.com/2015_LCK_Spring/Scoreboards/Round_Robin/Overview

Korean LCS: Riot's Favorite. Vi : 0 games JarvanIV : 57 games, 45% win rate. He got nerfed this patch so expect him to go down. Rengar : 7 games,43% win rate RekSai : 13 games but 38 bans, 62% winrate. Keep in mind this is an overview of the entire spring season, including all the patches(Rek'Sai had to get nerfed twice) LeeSin : 47 games, 47% winrate. Stronger than all of the champions you listed besides Rek'Sai.

Well you said LCS not LCK. Anyway, Pantheon has a 100% winrate according to that, so is he OP? Also, I forgot to mention Nidalee who also has a really good jungle priority in LCS, but Korea seems to not play her in the jungle or in lane.

Part of why I like EU LCS is that even though they're considered least skilled, they are usually ahead of the meta. In Korea they kind of just become god at the mechanics of one or two champs and then only play those champs as long as possible.

Celeste Benal2 votes

Statistically speaking, the number of games played is not significant and is a very poor sample size. Using the LCS/K to provide stats is very misleading because it simply doesn't provide a big enough sample size.

At least 1000 games is a statistically significant sample size.

Hell Week1 votes

Jarvan got nerfed? wuuuuuut. What they do this time.

Budupops1 votes

lowered his armour

ForgiveColour1 votes

i dont remember the last time i saw lee sin in lcs. Its either vi/reksai/j4 and L lee sin in silver takes like 5 seconds to ward jump if you lose to that im pretty its your problem

FastAsHeck4 votes

lee sin isn't even good

bro what are u smoking

ForgiveColour3 votes

this thread is why you are silver 5

IcyPepper1 votes

I didn't know there was a rank requirement in order to have an opinion.

Variks the Loyal3 votes

It's not really a nerf to the Trailblazer, since you can only hit monsters with it. It's really just a nerf to Stalker's and Skirmisher's.

Budupops5 votes

Keep in mind this is a nerf on smiting Baron and dragon, two game-changing elements. You now have to be closer to it to smite it. Now lets think which junglers can easily get to it back and forth over the wall:LeeSin and a lot of chilling smite junglers . Meanwhile Udyr and other non mobile champs can just get zoned if they doesn't blow flash.

WhiskerWow10 votes

It's not actually a nerf for dragon or baron. The new smite is calculated from model to model, not center to center. Baron and Dragon have large models so the smite range should be the same.

Sarchiapon3 votes

Question: who is that jungler champion that can get near an enemy with his skills pre-6 so that the new smite range nerf is pratically not even there for him?

Come on, it's easy.

Partholonian1 votes

Answering this question may be easy, but landing max-range skillshots on an unslowed champion is not. That's why a long range point and click slow on any jungler who wants one was a bad idea.

Budupops1 votes

thats why lee has a ward hop and a huge range slow so he can use his abilities ez

Mandang02 votes

The problem with chilling smite WAS the range. Riot says as much in the patch notes.

RasCaelestis1 votes

Aye, but the problem is that they didn't just nerf the range on Chilling Smite. They nerfed the range on Smite, which affects all its upgraded versions, not just the Chilling one.

I can understand nerfing the strongest one (though buffing the inferior ones makes more sense, at least in my opinion) but this is a nerf to things that weren't as strong in the first place.

Partholonian2 votes

Technically the range affects all smites, but it most meaningfully affected the one that was most likely to be used from max range so that you could land skillshots at long range. Nobody is going to have trouble lining up skillshots on a mob camp if they don't slow it first to stop it from juking.

RasCaelestis1 votes

I agree, and will admit I worded things poorly in my post, but I still don't understand Riot's balance system.

Narog2 votes

smite rework is too much of a failure , i dont see anything positive coming from it , i think riot need to rethink the entire jungle.

Arveanor1 votes

Guys everybody please calm down and take a step back. Let's all take a moment to think about this.

We can not continue just upvoting anything that's negative and edgy, we need to think before we post.

In what way do you actually consider trailblazer and saber affected, in any way, by this change? Just think to yourself, and try to come up with a single use case that is affected by this.

Dengeden1 votes

I like how you don't even mention how they nerfed smite. This change is about as relevant to the smite upgrades you mentioned as the nerf to Jarvin is to his early game.

JevelFaithful1 votes

What did they do? Last I heard, they reduced it's champion-range, suposedly it wouldn't change it's monster-range because (meaningful) monsters are supposed to have bigger hurtbox. At least that's the official explanation.

KaisadiIIa2 votes

That applies to Baron. That does not apply to Krugs.

JevelFaithful1 votes

So the only case where it applies is when attempting a buff steal right in front of the other jungler or with ranged junglers. SInce any other times, you'll be in melee with your monster. Right?

I'm not sure if the nerf is sensible when it comes to lane, but I don,t see it change much in the jungle.

Jungle Lux God1 votes

The only change to Smite that hit all of the jungle items was the price on switching jungle items.

The range changes on Smite are exclusively on Chilling Smite because of how you use the other items.

It's not a nerf to Ranger's Trailblazer or Poaching Smite because their Smites are more farming-focused. You use them when you are farming. Ranger's Trailblazer also does have the utility of giving a little extra waveclear, and that doesn't get hit too hard because on most champs that use it, you wouldn't use it at max range most of the time. There are edge cases where it gets nerfed, but overall it doesn't affect it too much.

It's not a nerf to Skirmisher's Sabre because it's only useful when you get in range of your opponent. It is useless if you use it without being in range of your opponent, and you only use it well within range of the opponent, much closer than even what the current range is.

Stalker's Blade was a clear target for this nerf, and, compared to the other items, got nerfed relatively hard compared to the other three jungle items.

Partholonian1 votes

Specifically, I think it was targeted at "start whatever smite suits your champion, then switch to chilling because its ganks are OP".

Which is good -- that needed to be changed.

Whether it will be enough to have junglers like Amumu Zac Volibear Udyr Rammus Hecarim make comebacks... well, we'll have to see.

youngjake932 votes

{quoted}

The only change to Smite that hit all of the jungle items was the price on switching jungle items.

The range changes on Smite are exclusively on Chilling Smite because of how you use the other items.

It's not a nerf to Ranger's Trailblazer or Poaching Smite because their Smites are more farming-focused. You use them when you are farming. Ranger's Trailblazer also does have the utility of giving a little extra waveclear, and that doesn't get hit too hard because on most champs that use it, you wouldn't use it at max range most of the time. There are edge cases where it gets nerfed, but overall it doesn't affect it too much.

It's not a nerf to Skirmisher's Sabre because it's only useful when you get in range of your opponent. It is useless if you use it without being in range of your opponent, and you only use it well within range of the opponent, much closer than even what the current range is.

Stalker's Blade was a clear target for this nerf, and, compared to the other items, got nerfed relatively hard compared to the other three jungle items.

It definitely is a nerf to Poaching Smite. The whole point of the item is to run in, smite a camp that they are doing smiteless and speed boost away. You'll have to get really close in order for it to work now meaning it is EVEN MORE risky.

Budupops3 votes

Keep in mind skirmishers also reduced damage taken by 20%. If you are running from an adc you have to be in AA range to smite them

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