@Riot Galio has too much CC for his damage potential

Big Lincoln·Mar 8, 2017·9 votes·1,692 views

Or he has too much damage for his CC.

He has 3 hard CC spells in his kit. And yet despite that, he still builds quite heavily into AP and does a significant amount of damage between passive, Q, E, and R. This is just too much, combined with his HUGE damage resistance numbers and being able to give that to an ally when he ults.

I'd like to say it's the former and not the latter; we do not need another full-CDR CC bullet sponge. It's really boring, and we have enough of these fuckers already. Give us a proper anti-mage AP fighter instead; it'd be way more interesting to see and a far better place to take Galio where he can actually be a unique fighter. W and R are fine; I think his E shouldn't be a knockup.

34 Comments

RalanrMar 8, 20172 votes

Or we could stop having him build too much AP.

Big LincolnMar 8, 20174 votes

It's more interesting and makes him stand out.

I will refuse to play this champion if they slash his damage output in favor of full-tank builds.

RalanrMar 8, 20172 votes

Maybe you just shouldn't play tanks. :/

Big LincolnMar 8, 20174 votes

I'm not going to play a tank.

It would be a disservice to Galio and the game to make him one.

RalanrMar 8, 20171 votes

But he already was a tank.

WoonStruckMar 8, 20173 votes

Galio was never played as a tank.

Any time he was viable, he was an AP.

RalanrMar 8, 20171 votes

Which showed a failure of his original kit.

WoonStruckMar 8, 20171 votes

3 high-damage, high AP ratio abilities on a champion, and being build AP shows a failure of original kit when he only had one form of hard CC?

Do tell me more.

RalanrMar 8, 20171 votes

Considering he was supposed to be a tank but didn't have a reason to act like one except when his ult was up, yes.

Big LincolnMar 8, 20172 votes

How was he supposed to be a tank? Tanks don't have long-range poke like Galio and only one hard CC.

galio's a mage; new galio should be balanced as an AP fighter

RalanrMar 8, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1anXgJNx,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-03-08T14:41:12.687+0000)

How was he supposed to be a tank? Tanks don't have long-range poke like Galio and only one hard CC.

galio's a mage; new galio should be balanced as an AP fighter

Technically Sion, Braum, and Maokai all have long range poke as does the new Galio (it doesn't seem any shorter anyway). The problem was that Galio had two forms of long ranged poke and no close ranged basic abilities despite being melee. On top of having a close ranged ult that was a Tanks' wet dream. If he was supposed to be a mage, then he's autos would have been ranged (which they could have done easily). If he was supposed to be an AP bruiser, then they would have given him some reason to actually fight instead of poke you down like a mage.

WoonStruckMar 8, 20171 votes

He wasn't supposed to specifically be a tank.

He wasn't supposed to be anything specific.

He was classified as both a mage and a tank on release. Could he deal with magic damage very well, as intended? Yes.

Could he nuke a team down? Yes.

Where's the failure in design?

The only failure in design is League's direction invalidating half the roster.

RalanrMar 8, 20171 votes

Because being melee but having no reason to actually fight in melee besides an incredibly long cooldown ult is cohesive design. /s

WoonStruckMar 8, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Because being melee but having no reason to actually fight in melee besides an incredibly long cooldown ult is cohesive design. /s

Chogath Gangplank Illaoi Kassadin Ivern Kayle Nunu Pantheon Singed Sion

Yeah, sure let's pretend a melee having little-to-no reason to be in melee is bad design.

RalanrMar 8, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, sure let's pretend a melee having little-to-no reason to be in melee is bad design.

Cho: Vorpal spikes and ult.

Gangplank: Passive

Illaoi: W and her tentacle range is definitely shorter than Galio's harass.

Kassadin: so are we just ignoring his void blade or what?

Ivern: Can get ranged autos in bushes, has a Q which can make him dash, and isn't really supposed to be fighting people anyway. That's Daisy's job. Also a jungler, one who doesn't need to even kill shit.

Kayle: She has to use an ability to make her auto attacks ranged, and has a really old kit that needs to be reworked anyway.

Nunu: attack speed aura, also has an old kit, and is a jungler.

Pantheon: W gap closer and his E passive.

Singed: has a goddamn flip that requires him to get close and be in melee range. Even the champion with the most unique playstyle in the game has a reason to be in melee range despite not really fighting people.

Your list was terrible.

WoonStruckMar 8, 20171 votes

Not really.

Galio has just as much incentive to be in melee as them.

Makes his Q easier to hit, lets him stick to someone for longer due to E, has high base AD, W healing, and his ult.

So you admit that GP's borderline unused passive means he has less reason to be melee?

Cho's E+R is even less than Galio's entire kit which benefits from being melee.

Kassadin having one ability that he almost never uses unless he's going all in mean's he has reason to be in melee? Gee...sounds a lot like Galio.

Nunu's Attack speed is even less of a reason to be in melee than many aspects of Galio's kit.

Pantheon will never be in melee unless he's going all-in.

The list isn't terrible, your reasoning is.

RalanrMar 8, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Not really.

Galio has just as much incentive to be in melee as them.

Except he doesn't unless he's farming.

Makes his Q easier to hit, lets him stick to someone for longer due to E, has high base AD, W healing, and his ult.

So I guess everyone with a skill shot should have the incentive to fire it from melee range.

So you admit that GP's borderline unused passive means he has less reason to be melee?

No, it means that he actually has legitimate trading power in melee. More than Galio did outside of his ult.

Cho's E+R is even less than Galio's entire kit which benefits from being melee.

Cho'gath's R has less benefit from being on melee than Galio's entire kit? I must be reading that wrong because it sounded like a true damage execute that grants infinite scaling health gains equal benefit from its cast range as Galio does with hitting someone with a basic auto attack.

Kassadin having one ability that he almost never uses unless he's going all in mean's he has reason to be in melee? Gee...sounds a lot like Galio.

Except with Galio, it is (bolded for better understanding) An ult with a ridiculous cooldown while Kassadins blade is on a much shorter cooldown, restores mana, and helps with his quick combo that he can do much more often than Galio.

And even if people don't use it for the mana gain, that fact that it is there shows that he has an actual reason to get into melee range.

Nunu's Attack speed is even less of a reason to be in melee than many aspects of Galio's kit.

Nunu is also a jungler that interacts by counter jungling. He only melees to farm in the jungle, which he doesn't need to do because of his consume.

Not that Nunu is up to the standards of what a champion even is at the moment.

Pantheon will never be in melee unless he's going all-in.

You mean what Pantheon is supposed to do? All in you with his abilities? Gee it's almost like him being a melee character actually made sense with his kit. Unlike Galio.

The list isn't terrible, your reasoning is.

No, it's a really bad list and I think your reasoning could use some work. But we could disagree and downvote each other for the rest of the week and it wouldn't prove anything beyond that neither of us want to give up this argument to someone who doesn't matter.

Galio's been reworked, nothing is going to stop it from happening and the reasons don't really matter anymore beyond ego points.

So in conclusion, I agree with you on nothing else but our disagreement over Galio's need for a rework.

Good day.

Miror BMar 8, 20172 votes

I personally don't see what the rework actually accomplished, aside from giving him what are essentially two ultimates (vi's being his e and pantheon's kinda being his new ulti) combined with ivern's cc-shield. If he still has the same melee-auto problem that his pre-work kit had, then I highly suspect this to be another yorick.

Big LincolnMar 8, 20172 votes

you'll downvote now but guarantee when he launches like this we'll see the boards flood with complaints

xWatersMar 8, 20173 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1anXgJNx,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-03-08T04:39:58.713+0000)

you'll downvote now but guarantee when he launches like this we'll see the boards flood with complaints

knowing the boards, you're 100% right there will be complaints.

RalanrMar 8, 20172 votes

That has no weight whatsoever The boards complaining is the same as the sky being blue on a sunny day. Literally you could say something dumber and have more value to your point.

You could do your regular shit post and hold more weight than this comment.

WoonStruckMar 8, 20171 votes

People disagreed when I said he's a better Leona.

Same pattern, more damage reduction, more CC, more AoE, far more damage...he's even better on a low budget.

Hexs FortuneMar 8, 20172 votes

Everybody wants damage. Then they complain when the game is full of damage

Big LincolnMar 8, 20171 votes

I'm complaining that he has high damage and three hard CCs

ParoeMar 8, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1anXgJNx,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2017-03-08T04:54:39.501+0000)

I'm complaining that he has high damage and three hard CCs

He has an instant burst combo. thats not really "high damage". Hes a standard bruiser; and its nice that hes a standard bruiser.

Every champion deserves waveclear built in. Every champion deserves tools to deal with things. Every champion deserves to have the ability to do things.

When you take those things away, you get "pigeonholes" who are only capable of utilizing their kit properly in one or two situations.

Big LincolnMar 8, 20174 votes

he has more than just 'instant burst.' cd is low enough he can apply passive repeatedly and spam Q with impunity once he finishes a mana item. he is a high damage champion.

every champion deserves

that's nice, billy, but trade-offs should exist. Galio does too much damage for being able to rival pure tanks in CC output, with or without building full tank himself.

ParoeMar 8, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1anXgJNx,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2017-03-08T05:16:43.846+0000)

he has more than just 'instant burst.' cd is low enough he can apply passive repeatedly and spam Q with impunity once he finishes a mana item. he is a high damage champion.

that's nice, billy, but trade-offs should exist. Galio does too much damage for being able to rival pure tanks in CC output, with or without building full tank himself.

Werent you in the thread i made a few weeks ago? Waveclear is not and should not be a tradeoff. VERY few champions suffer for their waveclear. The ones that dont have waveclear were never intended to solo lane to begin with.

Galio has an ult (which shouldnt count for your argument - its an ult), a taunt (do taunts proc CoC? I honestly dont know), and a displacement skill shot. The only one you could argue is to strong is MAYBE the AoE taunt.

If you take away a champions ability to lane well, then you make them into something like shen... a counterpick champion whose entire identity is press R. Those kinds of champions are extremely boring both to watch AND play. The jungle is also designed to need waveclear right now - it is NOT a place for single target champions and the jungle mobs themselves are fairly tanky especially when counter jungled.

Big LincolnMar 8, 20171 votes

Waveclear is not and should not be a tradeoff.

completely solved by 'do bonus damage to minions.' and the issue is now solved; do less damage to champions, waveclear unharmed. But since you're either so adamant on how he needs everything and the kitchen sink or you're just hung up on this one minute aspect of a champion, let's talk about how he has 8 seconds of damage reduction that'll climb over 60% with a full tank build and has only 3 seconds of downtime before it's back up, and the charge can't be interrupted by CC so you'll never get anything less than the full 8 seconds if you so desire to have the full 8 seconds. Or how he's able to give another teammate that damage reduction every time he presses R, or how he gets up to 500 magic damage on his passive that WILL be applied multiple times in a teamfight, in an AoE, just for building full tank and a Sterak's. Or his 1k magic shield that he gets passively, which WILL make him a definitive hard counter to any and all magic threats. Or his ranged poke that still remains relevant thanks to high base damage and the extra % damage to boot. All of that, on top of his THREE hard CC spells, two of which have MINUSCULE cooldowns and the third being his ultimate.

But god forbid I say that Galio needs some of this power trimmed off, huh?

Big LincolnMar 8, 20171 votes

interesting how this never gets a response :^)

Dominick DestineMar 8, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Waveclear is not and should not be a tradeoff.

Vayne ?

ParoeMar 8, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1anXgJNx,comment-id=000300000000000000000001,timestamp=2017-03-08T06:29:24.415+0000)

?

Vayne does not have a waveclear this is true. But at the same time vayne isnt designed to solo lane... and has one of the most powerful abilities in the game. The allmighty right click with crit itemization.

WoonStruckMar 8, 20172 votes

The ones that dont have waveclear were never intended to solo lane to begin with.

Jax Irelia Fiora Kled original Poppy who was intended as a laner; her being nerfed didn't change her waveclear Quinn Shen

yeah, okay

ParoeMar 8, 20171 votes

{quoted}

original who was intended as a laner; her being nerfed didn't change her waveclear

yeah, okay

Jax has his E. Irelia has her Q. Fiora has the almighty right click.
Kled has his E. Current poppy has her Q. Quinn has the almighty rightclick. Shen is a press R champ with little value outside that.

You really underestimate the value of the rightclick. It is an exceptionally powerful ability that, when combined with AD, serves as psuedo waveclear.

WoonStruckMar 8, 20171 votes

You clearly have a misconception about waveclear if you think ANY of that is accurate. lol.