Are we still in a tank meta, and is Riot trying to take the game out of it?

AstroFerrari ·Dec 30, 2015·2 votes·666 views

I usually play JG and ADC, but most of my mainstay champions are on the squishy side. In my earlier days, playing tanky champions never appealed to me. Lately I've been opening my mind more, and trying these kinds of champions out. I play and it's almost as if I don't have to focus on what I'm doing to win lane. I played in the jungle for the first time today and had a perfect KDA, not to mention a very easy time clearing camps. I've yet to try but he's also built tanky if I'm not mistaken.

In essence, I many people having great success with tankier champions like this and it makes me wonder, with the new assassin item coming, is Riot going to try and end this meta games of tanks/CC heavy teams?

18 Comments

MLDzXnRRRDec 30, 20154 votes

I suggest you to look the most popular champions this patch - the only tank in the top 15 is Malphite with 14 % pickrate. Lee and Vayne are around 30 %.

PennsDec 30, 20151 votes

Thats because they are Lee and Vayne. Everyone wants to be a Lee or Vayne pro lol. Tanks or bruisers or whatever are most likely still the best class.

RatbertDec 30, 20151 votes

But then wouldn't there be more tank pros to emulate? Wouldn't fotm hoppers literally spam tanks all game, warping the rates?

Pierce The VealDec 30, 20152 votes

The answer to the title questions are yes and no respectively.

Assassins basically have no way to deal with tanks atm. Unless they are 1-2 items ahead of the tank the tank can just laugh them off. Assassin's dagger won't change this one bit.

IcyPepperDec 30, 20155 votes

Aren't tanks supposed to counter assassins in that regard, in the same way assassins assassinate marksman for the most part?

If you can 100-0 a tank without being ahead of them, what's the point of playing a tank?

Pierce The VealDec 30, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Aren't tanks supposed to counter assassins in that regard, in the same way assassins assassinate marksman for the most part?

If you can 100-0 a tank without being ahead of them, what's the point of playing a tank?

Yeah I agree with that. But I really don't think tanks should outduel assassins. Juggernauts should, yes, but tanks shouldn't.

IcyPepperDec 30, 20151 votes

Honestly, ~~can~~ should tanks outduel anyone? o.O

Though, I guess this really depends on the assassin, the tank, and the builds. Tanks who build item 3068 for instance and have some aoe heavily punish melee assassins, so a Zed player who does not respect the zone of control (as I call utility mage/tank range of effect) is going to get his ass kicked by that Nautilus for a moment.

But it also depends on how long the fight goes on. When you build no defense, you're squishy. Tanks got some good upfront burst to punish those who don't respect their zone of control, and I think that's okay. When you have poke, range, and mobility, you should be punished if you decide to stay in melee range of someone like Sejuani.

But if both an assassin and a tank are playing smart, the assassin would poke and poke and then go all-in. The tank would win the match-up by stalling until a teammate arrives, and then lockdown the assassin.

I guess it really depends on the player.

Pierce The VealDec 30, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Honestly, ~~can~~ should tanks outduel anyone? o.O

Though, I guess this really depends on the assassin, the tank, and the builds. Tanks who build for instance and have some aoe heavily punish melee assassins, so a Zed player who does not respect the zone of control (as I call utility mage/tank range of effect) is going to get his ass kicked by that Nautilus for a moment.

But it also depends on how long the fight goes on. When you build no defense, you're squishy. Tanks got some good upfront burst to punish those who don't respect their zone of control, and I think that's okay. When you have poke, range, and mobility, you should be punished if you decide to stay in melee range of someone like Sejuani.

But if both an assassin and a tank are playing smart, the assassin would poke and poke and then go all-in. The tank would win the match-up by stalling until a teammate arrives, and then lockdown the assassin.

I guess it really depends on the player.

More often than not an assassin poking down a tank is basically impossible.

PennsDec 30, 20151 votes

The same way adcs are supposed to counter tanks? Because the only adc that can even think about doing anything against tanks or bruisers is Vayne.

IcyPepperDec 30, 20153 votes

By herself, you mean.

The way I see it, tanks and adcs do their job best when they have an ally to protect [them].

Tanks don't do a lot of damage, so they're useful when they can soak up damage meant for an ally while that ally dishes out the damage.

Adcs do a lot of damage, but they take a lot of damage having usually no or little defenses, so they work best when there's someone in front of them.

When tanks or adcs are too independent, issues crop up.

PennsDec 30, 20151 votes

Yeah but usually (by usually I mean in every normal game ever), characters with sustained damage should beat tanks alone anytime because tanks ""dont do damage"" and sustained damage dealers ""melt them"". Idk what went wrong in League lol.

IcyPepperDec 30, 20151 votes

shrugs

And there's people who think burst champions should outright beat them too. From the way I see people talk about them, it's like tanks (not bruisers or juggernauts, just pure tanks) shouldn't outduel anyone except maybe a Soraka.

Honestly, I'd chalk the "adc vs tank" thing to whether or not the adc can utilize their range (a very strong part of their kit). If they can stay outside the tank's zone of control, they'll win GG EZ. If they try to duel while standing still in melee range of the tank, eh... and it still depends on the tank (Volibear would definitely win a fight if you can't kite him, and Nautilus probably hits for less but he'd probably just stall for time so you get flanked).

Again, shrugs

PennsDec 30, 20151 votes

Tanks (and bruisers or juggernauts, however you wanna call those bs classes) should beat high burst champs, but if they beat adcs as well, who beats tanks? Other than Vayne? The problem is that, in League, there is damage based off defensive stats. And there is A LOT of it.

BeuhlakorDec 30, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Yeah but usually (by usually I mean in every normal game ever), characters with sustained damage should beat tanks alone anytime because tanks ""dont do damage"" and sustained damage dealers ""melt them"". Idk what went wrong in League lol.

Because you are understanding wrongly how the game works.

Tanks (and by tanks I mean true tanks, not Juggernauts or weird bruiser/tank mix) do have a little amount of damages. But ADC have so little defense and health that many tank CAN kill ADC in a 1v1 scenario unless the ADC can kite well.

It's a bad example, but imagine an ADC that has 1800 health and can deal 4000 damages to a tank who has 200 armor over a period of 10 seconds (and thus, much more damages against squishy targets) and a tank that has 4000 HP who can deal to squishy targets only (60 armor and 1800 HP) 1800 damages over a period of 8 seconds. Let's also imagine that both the ADC and the tank are standing still.

The ADC will lose. Plain and simple. Because ADC have so little defense that you don't need a lot of damages to kill them. Despite the ADC having a much much more higher DPS than the tank.

But at the same time, replace your ADC by a tank and you will never be able to deal with the ennemy tank / juggernaut / bruiser because you won't have the damages at all to kill them while they disrupt your team to death or take all the CC while allowing their carries to do the job.

TL;DR :

ADC is a teamfight oriented role. Most ADC are not duellist and we all HATE to lose in 1v1 scenarios. Also, we heavily tend to NOT trust our teammates (hence the "soloQ") in providing peel so that you can do your job in teamfights.

This is also why we all hate champions like Jax, Riven, Yasuo, Vayne, Tryndamere and so on (every duellist in the game in fact). Because nobody likes to be exterminate in 1v1 even though the natural answer is "Don't 1v1 them, just group and teamfight". 1v1 is a battle of ego and we do not trust our teammates in teamfight.

IcyPepperDec 30, 20152 votes

It hasn't been a tank meta for quite awhile.

I'd say it's more of a snowball, juggernaut/bruiser meta.

Please, please, please don't be the guy who thinks "being tanky = tank champion." You don't seem to give that vibe, but putting Darius as an example worries me since he is most definitely not a tank.

Although, that said, a few tanks are a little powerful right now, but that goes for any class. There's strong mages in the meta (Lux, Brand), assassins, marksman (obviously, to be fair), and supports. More than I can name.

So no, it's not a tank meta. I'd say it's a bit more diverse than that, and while the meta does lean a bit toward disruption, it's more snowballey than tanky. After all, it's easier to snowball when you have a tank to aid you, as many Yasuo mains would attest when a Malphite is on their team.

xReadyPlayerOnexDec 30, 20151 votes

No, we aren't in the tank meta. Stop feeding them. Tank Champions do really REALLY well with a few kills under their belts, even if their KDA is bad, THAT's why they do well. Deny them farm and kills and grab a LD or MR and they die like any other champ.

Biggest change in this meta is that DEATHS MATTER. 5 deaths in a game is feeding. It's almost 10k extra gold to the enemy team if your entire team dies 5x. That's Insurmountable. Tanks benefit from this the most because they're able to use that to buy items that make them harder to kill... I really hope people can understand this and I don't need to finish the math for them.

AstroFerrari Dec 30, 20151 votes

damn was this really that bad of a question? -3? you guys are so anal hahaha

TroiannDec 30, 20151 votes

Some tanks are really strong, rammus, volibear, trundle, mundo are all insanely strong. They honestly were very good and frustrating to deal with before, but now it just feels like they are ever so more unbeatable even with a lord dominiks or moral reminder.