Vayne stupid stealth is what breaks her atm.

dominusx·Jan 3, 2017·58 votes·2,693 views

Dancing around melee champions unpunished because you cannot reveal her. goddamn proactive gameplay.But she can miss her skills and dont do enough dmg? oh well 100% of her dmg is autoattacks too bad.

60 Comments

RalanrJan 3, 201712 votes

Apparently Riot doesn't think so since that stealth duration nerf never made it through.

In all honesty I wouldn't mind if Vayne was gutted.

KraDEsluP282Jan 3, 20172 votes

nobody would mind. i t would be like removing a tumor from a tumor.

SlythionJan 3, 20175 votes

no one ever minds if the champions they hate are gutted, but the honest truth is that no champion deserves to be gutted (yes, that even includes Yasuo)

RalanrJan 3, 20172 votes

This is true. No champion deserves to be gutted.

Unless they are incredibly game breaking on their own (like old Poppy).

THE RlVER KlNGJan 3, 20174 votes

Vayne is gamebreaking. If even slightly ahead she denies melee champions being allowed to play.

MelledoneusJan 4, 20172 votes

What I hate more than anything is that she is slippery, bursty, shreds tanks, has good sustain with lifesteal, has self-peel, ffs what doesn't she have besides a moustache, a cigar, or an OCD surrounding the number four?

I naturally hate things that have %HP true damage, but god damn Vayne is a whole package of frustration of all the things I hate in this game except for annoying split-puahers.

poustrayJan 4, 20171 votes

The problem at the moment with vayne is that items and keystones are extremely efficient on her. I think especially keystones have brought too much damage/heals and it's being toxic to the game to the point where they should just be deleted.

MelledoneusJan 4, 20172 votes

No, that's the problem with ADCs like Twitch who are standing turrets that melt everything.

Vayne herself has been an issue since as long as I can remember, especially even in the days of Cinderhulk dominance. Fiora and Vayne are the two possibly stupidest champions to deal with because they have a stat that basically fucks over your health bar without you being able to do a damn thing about it. While also bursting your squishies.

Until %HP true damage is reworked into something you actually need to work for or crit itself is removed, these two will be stupid as hell for eternity because Riot refuses to come up with actually clever ways to fulfill a fantasy than slap a stat that shouldn't exist in the game.

SlythionJan 4, 20171 votes

she lacks range and any non-single target damage, both of which are actually pretty significant.

She also lacks any real self peel (her is is single target and fairly short range tbh) and has to rely on her kiting-intensive kit that is only viable through her Q. And ya, being kited is extremely annoying (this is coming from a tank/juggernaut main) but it's also important to know she does have weaknesses and to say things like "ffs what doesn't she have" because she actually lacks a lot, she just excels incredibly at a few things.

MelledoneusJan 4, 20171 votes

Allow me to point out that a Vayne that is behind can 1v1 a Twitch that is ahead because of her burst and stealth.

SlythionJan 4, 20171 votes

and Vayne was specifically intended for 1v1's/skirmishes while Twitch is more of a late-game teamfighter, he was never supposed to 1v1 a vayne

although ya, vayne's burst is a bit overtuned rn, I'm just pointing out how it was a bad example

MelledoneusJan 4, 20171 votes

Twitch is actually an assassin because of his burst, and is infamous for it. Vayne can even burst a Jhin faster than he can burst her. The only ADC that absolutely dominates Vayne through sheer force is Draven.

salty testiJan 4, 20171 votes

[deleted]

SlythionJan 4, 20171 votes

not even azir deserved getting gutted. He was amazing in the competitive scene (same as Kalista, they are practically the same exact cases) but in solo queue he wasn't that bad.

He was a balance issue, but gutting him is not the answer and it;s their temporary solution to buy time to find an actual change to his kit to solve his gameplay issues.

Khada Jhin GDJan 5, 20171 votes

{quoted}

no one ever minds if the champions they hate are gutted, but the honest truth is that no champion deserves to be gutted (yes, that even includes Yasuo)

aatrox did lmao. you couldnt lane against him no matter who you played. :c i miss aatrox

SlythionJan 5, 20171 votes

don't confuse "gutted" with "nerfed"

Khada Jhin GDJan 6, 20171 votes

{quoted}

don't confuse "gutted" with "nerfed"

no hes gutted every does his job better then him. they even said they left him in this state on purpose. He was too oppressive when they released him. Then nerfed him to no return besides a rework/relaunch or a broken item

SlythionJan 6, 20171 votes

ya...he was gutted. I'm confused how that's relevant to my statement of "no champion deserves to be gutted*

is your argument that because it happened, it must be right? I'm completely lost at what point you're trying to make

Khada Jhin GDJan 6, 20171 votes

{quoted}

ya...he was gutted. I'm confused how that's relevant to my statement of "no champion deserves to be gutted*

is your argument that because it happened, it must be right? I'm completely lost at what point you're trying to make

No, a champ deserves to be gutted when they are release without proper testing if you release a champ thats impossible to balance its better to gut them in till you can fix them. Past examples Pre-Rework/relaunch Poppy and Yorick .

ßurstJan 4, 20171 votes

He stealth is ridiculous tbh you finally catch her she just q's and made it a good 700 units away from you oh you wanna catch up to me again. E

KraDEsluP282Jan 3, 20177 votes

'member the good old days when vision trinkets would reveal her completely instead of showing red dots that you can't select

dominusxJan 3, 20172 votes

I MEMBER PARTNER. GOOD OL DAYZ .

Mira Arya EntheJan 3, 20175 votes

Vayne's stupid stealth is why she has always been broken*

There fixed it.

dominusxJan 3, 20173 votes

No i have to stop you there. when pink wards existed vayne has enough counterplay. SHe ults? poop a ward and deal with her. Now she ults? you dead.

GULAG 4 UJan 4, 20173 votes

wasting an item slot doesn't help that much when she gets ms and ad anyways

MhihnjJan 4, 20172 votes

i am srsly not a fan of combat stealth

GULAG 4 UJan 4, 20171 votes

Can agree with that.

A is for AtlasJan 4, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mira Arya Enthe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1Upkv4vG,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-01-03T20:12:24.806+0000)

Vayne's stupid stealth is why she has always been broken*

There fixed it.

Well, you USED to be able to counter it with a pink.

aspects1Jan 4, 20175 votes

miss skills-> no skillshots flawless reasoning

ZT XperimentorJan 4, 20171 votes

If you aren't jax fizz or yasou, you're going to take damage from her auto-attacks. Don't forget she has 2 steroids in her kit, and a targeted knockback.

Surfer AsheJan 4, 20171 votes

Yes but it's a poor argument.

Lux can obliterate most non-tanks, even two to three simultaneously from the safety of 1000 range, but because it's occasionally avoidable (hardly likely in a teamfigh or chokepoint), it's fine?

Vayne trades that range for reliability of damage.

ZT XperimentorJan 4, 20171 votes

And you don't understand that you cannot dodge auto-attacks, which means vayne cannot miss you; thus being unavoidable damage if she clicks you. That's his point, she shouldn't need any AD steroid given she can't miss, and she already has bonus true damage as a passive. Range isn't much of an issue with the rapidfire cannon.

aspects1Jan 4, 20171 votes

who gets firecannon on vayne? you have tumble to get in range and you need shiv for waveclear

ZT XperimentorJan 5, 20171 votes

I've seen it a couple times so nothing close to common, though it adds more burst damage on her tumble if she's patient.

aspects1Jan 5, 20171 votes

shiv does more damage than firecannon, esp if she crits, because firecannon damage cant crit, but shiv damage can

ZT XperimentorJan 5, 20171 votes

Indeed; but shiv doesn't work on towers does it?

aspects1Jan 5, 20171 votes

tru, but vayne doesnt go for objectives, she goes for kills

ZT XperimentorJan 5, 20171 votes

And what does she do after the enemy team is dead . . . twiddle her thumbs?

aspects1Jan 6, 20171 votes

indeed

WalkingInACircleJan 3, 20174 votes

I think its the bonus damage on her q myself. Also could make condemned a skillshot.

5000000000000000Jan 3, 20173 votes

Agreed. I'm pretty sure it's the damage that breaks her, not stealth. That is a core part of her kit. Someone proposed this already on the Boards, but I agree that her kit should be focused on tank busting with stealth and silver bolts. Make her DPS instead of burst.

salty testiJan 4, 20171 votes

[deleted]

drakuIa421Jan 4, 20171 votes

the thing is, the statik shiv infinity edge build is still better than the BotRK build, because she burst AND do insane dps at the same time, and thats not balanced.

5000000000000000Jan 4, 20171 votes

A proposed solution was to remove AD steroid on her ultimate or the bonus AD on her Q, thus making crit builds weaker, or giving her a situation interaction that allows critting with on hit effects (presumably not just doubling damage).

Ben SwoIoJan 4, 20172 votes

I think the AA silver bolt true damage proc crap is what ruins her. Condemn needs to be used at the right time and you can't just waste tumble or you might get killed. Both require the summoner to press a button to activate them too. But, as long as you keep AAing you will deal massive damage every third hit, which feels like every hit after she builds attack speed. Silver bolts should be an activated ability or something. Makes her too easy. Honestly sick of seeing her, about as much as lee sin.

MikTa JinJan 4, 20172 votes

I can't believe there are still threads like these while Veigar and Annie can LITERALLY 1 shot the entire team.... I have never seen a Vayne kill an entire team with one Ability... EVER!!! I'm sorry.. I have to down vote this.. VEIGAR SHOULD BE GUTTED! ANNE SHOULD BE GUTTED!!!

dominusxJan 4, 20172 votes

mages dont get nerfed except the one that are pick and ban in lcs. dont expect nerf to these 2 shitty designed champs

SteelflameJan 4, 20172 votes

Imo, no, that isn't. What makes her stupid is the 30-80 AD steroid which gets put through her Q which can further crit. I've said she should get a mini-rework on her ult for a while now, remove the AD boost entirely, double silver bolts damage (Mathed out this is no where as bad as it looks, and massive nerfs her 1v1 potential against other ADCs, while only being a minor boost vs tankier targets until significantly late into the game, where vayne is SUPPOSED to shine), and some booster to her E, perhaps a longer KB range.

Combo that with nerfing her Q crit interactions, and Vayne would be rather healthy, with a niche of being a tankbusting late game champ, with massive self-focused utility/peel. She wouldn't be the monsterous 2Shotter we got now who can instakill an ADC from stealth faster than they can humanly react thanks to her Qcrit with shiv.

Papa SlothyJan 4, 20172 votes

personally I think it's the Q damage