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Oh my god, somebody tell me this is a joke

Barcid··49 votes·3,443 views

Haven't been playing lately. Hate the direction the game took. So one-sided and stompy and yeah yeah we've all said it about a million times I might as well save my breath.

What the actual fuck is this Liandry's change.

What is this Spellbound Orb.

What the fuck is going on.

So like... okay, clearly you're hellbent on this whole "snowball meta" thing you got going on here. But Jesus fucking Christ, what is this mess I've come back to check in on?

You first of all took one of the most balanced items in the game - Liandry's, an item that has literally only had gold cost changes since mid-season 5 - and... what the fuck even? Why did you need to put even more damage onto this thing? It did its job - it's niche - it's purpose very well. It made you better at killing tanks and did negligible damage to squishies - that's what it was designed to do. That is perfect. It hasn't had any issues with being broken and no issues with being useless. In fact, just because of how utterly weak all other AP itemization was, that's the only reason it was seen on basically every single AP champ lately.

So you took that information. You looked at it long and hard. Considered it. And decided this was the item that needed a massive change. Gooooooooooood fucking job.

Well at least you swapped Morello around. You switched it from being the need-to-buy to being a niche item. So you know what, you do get props for that. I'm glad it's not the must-buy for every situation even when its passive doesn't matter. Kudos. Ya did one thing right. One thing out of, what, five things? .200 batting average is a little low, but I mean, you can still arguably stay in the majors with that.

But thank god you plugged in another completely asinine item with this Spellbound Orb. Oh good, a... deathfire of sorts that gives a window of burst. That sounds like a good idea other than that little 75% movement speed increase (albeit decaying, so you haven't completely gone nuts). Why - oh-fucking-why - does it last for 8 fucking seconds? Did we learn nothing from the Luden's release? When plugging even just 10% increased MS alone on mages that outranged the entirety of the game tended to turn the game into an ability lob-fest from 5 miles down the lane? Whether people want to appreciate this level of speed increase or not, it is without a doubt going to be one of the most asinine things to try and accomplish when the Lux you finally managed to catch just popped the active and scootered her ass so far down the lane she could arrive back at base before recalling would accomplish it. And Lux is just an example - I can think of so many mages that could abuse this even harder. You guys loved when Syndra was doing her thing, right?

Let's not even just keep it focused on mages. Let's just think about Fizz racing up to you and destroying you unopposed. Or doing that first outright and then just sprinting away afterward.

But I guess you have to make sure tanks still feel "useful" now that Liandry's will be dropping them faster than flies, right?

Eh, whatever. You gave Rylai's the 10 extra AP it desperately needed. Because... you know... that was the reason it was trash tier before. That 10 missing AP. Not because the passive is pitiful at best or anything.

I'm so fucking petered out at this point. Like... I am actually legitimately angry at what I'm looking at. And I shouldn't be. But I look back at what the live-game was, go, "You know, it's just this this and this that really needs to switch, and we should be fine." And then you guys do the same thing where you look at the live-game, consider it for a bit, and then you go inhale computer duster until your eyes bleed and try to see what you come up with. Which all right, I'm okay with that kind of partying, I can dig it - ya really need that kick to feel alive, I feel ya. But how about don't bring it into work?

sigh

............................................... At least spooky ghosts are back... and Rabadon's is relatively cost effective now...

Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay................

57 Comments

Sonasaurous35 votes

Obviously they're trying to make mages relevant again by giving them more damage so they can compete with all the other damage in the game. Because there's totally not an unstoppable power creep that just keeps increasing because Riot forgot about strategic gameplay in favor of flashy snowball plays.

DemonBoneJangles10 votes

[{quoted}](name=Le Kaikai,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1Q5o5yfr,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-02-08T13:15:09.080+0000)

Obviously they're trying to make mages relevant again by giving them more damage so they can compete with all the other damage in the game. Because there's totally not an unstoppable power creep that just keeps increasing because Riot forgot about strategic gameplay in favor of flashy snowball plays.

gonna agree with you here, as a team based game and a game that "should" require some level of teamwork, there is a surprising lack of team play beyond "help with dragon, help with baron, ect."

so yeah riot is making it harder and harder to have any sense of strategy and I agree that they are in favor of the flashy lcs and snowball plays that are prevalent in worlds and youtube

Shablagoo3 votes

"Trying to make mages relevent again" sorry where mages ever not relevent? Where does this idea come from that mages do nothing in the game? Even with Adc's being the main focus of the game, mages still have a dominating factor in the game.

AirKingNeo1 votes

Mages literally the only viable mid laners right now and they'll still say "mages are weak"

THE RlVER KlNG3 votes

laughs in Katarina, Diana, Fizz, Talon, Jayce, Zed, Yas.....

AirKingNeo2 votes

Kata was nerfed away.

Diana? Fizz? Zed? Yasuo? Good joke.

Jayce? Play him top at that point if he's not banned.

Talon? Outscaled by 10 minutes if you don't feed.

Anatera25 votes

What's "going on" is Riot's balance team is making balance changes essentially by randomly throwing darts at a dart board with a blindfold on.

Romans VI XXIII5 votes

Well that's the result of not having to play the game in order to balance it, and their philosophy to make extreme play style changes to characters rather than tweak numbers.

Lord Phazanor 12 votes

{quoted}

What's "going on" is Riot's balance team is making balance changes essentially by randomly throwing darts at a dart board with a blindfold on.

Oh I thought they were taking direct orders from the Devil. Guess your version works too.

AMYS GRAVE12 votes

Never ascribe to malice that which can be explained by incompetence.

Lord Phazanor 5 votes

{quoted}

Never ascribe to malice that which can be explained by incompetence.

Can they incompetently follow malevolent orders? :p

Barcid1 votes

I mean they haven't straight up just shut down the entire game yet, so I think so.

Karfuss2 votes

{quoted}

What's "going on" is Riot's balance team is making balance changes essentially by randomly throwing darts at a dart board with a blindfold on.

Throws dart

Ezreal

Throws dart

Mobility

Throws dart

0.5!

"Ezreal isn't performing as well as we'd like against other champions. We're now reducing Ezreal's E by 0.5 seconds at all ranks."

Whip it good1 votes

More like:

Throws dart

Zoe

Throws dart

Q

Throws dart

0.25

"Zoe is a little bit too strong right now so we are increasing the window at which enemies can abuse her cooldowns and engage her"

Ryrynounet1 votes

Works too like this :

Throws dart

Ekko

Throws dart

E

Throws dart

Cooldown reduced to 9 / 8.5 / 8 / 7.5 / 7 seconds from 11 / 10 / 9 / 8 / 7.

"Ekko fares pretty well against mages when his cooldowns are up, so we’re giving him the tools to engage more often."

Abibyama18 votes

TLDR

Bitching

PurpleKingCrazy10 votes

Actually the thing is that the pure mage items builds are some of the BORINGest paths right now, and now they just build item 3165 . The item itself is too good for literally everything and now I would call it "The devil's slave item" just because it has everything in one item and it makes me sad that there isn't enough variety of building. I really want to take item 3070 item 3110 combo as an anti-aggro late game stance but it ends up being really slow and it would be often too late to admonish that early game.

For now, exclude Liandry's I think I am looking forward to this change more than anything (I did rate the items back then and I said Morellonomicom and Abyssal were the two best items in game now.)

Taliyah

Diamond2Kappa9 votes

one of the most balanced items in the game - Liandry's

eh

Automated Riven7 votes

{quoted}

eh

That's what I was thinking. It's literally the second best all around ap item. Survivability? √ Damage to tanks? √ Damage to squishies? √

It did pretty much everything. There is a reason that core builds on half the roster has been liandries/nomicon for a while now.

Nyarlathοtep5 votes

The reason liandrys is so popular is because it gives flat magic pen. Since nowadays everyone has only base mr, magic pen is very good stat.

Barcid1 votes

The reason it's been core is that by comparison all other AP itemization is pretty much a shitfest of useless.

Luden's offers a modicum of burst but gets outclassed by all AD itemization.

Zhonya's isn't such an important rush when Stopwatch is a thing.

Rylai's is a joke item and hardly sees play.

Archangel's can't even be built because games are so short.

Rabadon's is so costly and the build path is such shit that rushing it is utterly unviable just on top of the stats.

Void staff you aren't building until the enemy finally gets to building MR.

That really just leaves you with the Hextech suite (which all shares a cooldown), Lich Bane and Nashor's (which are on-hit situational), Liandry's, and Morello for your AP itemization needs. So yeah, I would say that given the complete joke that is AP itemization I can see why those two items would be the number one rushed things.

TeCoolMage7 votes

Twin shadows, Archangel's, Luden's, Morello, Rabadon's, Rylai's, void staff changes are a step in the right direction

GLP is debatable but I can see the definite flaw in being a non health item while relying on being battle mage close range. Not good for Asol earlier on, they'll have to go RoA.

Liandry's, Spell orb are bad.

'One out of five' things gone right is just you going full on tunnel vision on two items and not even noticing more than 5 items were changed. It's 7 out of 10. Quit trying to farm upvotes from kneejerk reactions, thanks.

Personally I think spell orb should have a lower cap, lower base, and stat per cast to discourage the extreme bursts playstyle that has become the norm of even poke and DPS playstyles.

But, it shouldn't be a DPS (think Cass and Anivia) item, they already have Liandry's (even in it's current state it's very good) and they tend to do very well in general. So lower the duration to two seconds, and make it so that the bonus is so small that a full QWE combo will not see huge amount so of damage.

Lower the cooldown. Now it's a poke item with a decent niche

Handy Sandy 4 votes

It did its job - it's niche - it's purpose very well.

Liandry's was core in every single build, it was good against tanks as well as squishy champions. Now it's changed into a vs tank only item. Stuff like morde oneshotting ppl with it will probably be changed and for the most part isn't worth getting vs squishies alone. This is just the PBE after all.

lil koda2 votes

you realise making it do max hp damage increases it damage against everyone right <Removed by Moderation>? its not just a tank busting item

RocketRelm3 votes

Max HP damage is disproportionately more powerful against tanks, the intent is to make it a DoT Tank Shredder item. Sure, being overtuned is a problem, but they're trying to make "the Flat Pen item for sniping squish targets" and "the HP shred that deals with bloated tanks" not be the same item.

Barcid2 votes

No, Max HP damage is equal against everyone because it is just that - maximum HP damage. It will do the same percentage of damage to everyone, whether you want to view it as a raw number or not is your prerogative.

The % current HP damage was almost literally the same thing except it functioned by ripping into tanks while lessening the damage against squishies. To break it down:

I hit a squishy with an ability doing 400 damage of their 1000 pool. Liandry's procs off of this, burning that squishy for a portion of what their health is after damage. IE, instead of burning them for 1.5% of 1000 health points every second, I instead burn them for 2% of 600 health points because that's what's left of it.

I do the same thing to a tank out of their 3000 health pool. 400 damage off, but I do 2% of their 2600 remaining health pool instead of 1.5% of their 3000% health pool. Basically, because they're tanky and take less of their total health pool in damage, I wind up dealing more damage to them and whittle them down with Liandry's effect.

The literal only thing that was doing damage to squishies with Liandry's in the current scheme of things was the 15 magic pen - if you remove that, good news, the item doesn't kill squishies anymore.

As it stands, this item is now just as dangerous to squishies - if not more so now - as it is to tanks. % max health damage should not be on an item that is supposed to be killing tanks.

Nyarlathοtep3 votes

You do know that current liandrys has an identity crisis right? Its passive helps against beefy targets, yet it also gives a flat amount of magic pen. Like why is it even a thing? I might want to buy magic pen (because my targets are squishy), yet i will have an item that helps against tanks. If the current idea goes through, liandrys will be good on sustained damage mages ( cass, azir etc) and generally bad on burst ones.

RocketRelm1 votes

Basically this. Flat Pen is an "assassin" stat, % HP shred is a tank killing stat.

The "Old Liandries" with +15 Flat Pen is still around, it's just on Morellos now.

Häxel3 votes

You first of all took one of the most balanced items in the game - Liandry's, an item that has literally only had gold cost changes since mid-season 5 - and... what the fuck even? Why did you need to put even more damage onto this thing? It did its job - it's niche - it's purpose very well. It made you better at killing tanks and did negligible damage to squishies - that's what it was designed to do. That is perfect. It hasn't had any issues with being broken and no issues with being useless. In fact, just because of how utterly weak all other AP itemization was, that's the only reason it was seen on basically every single AP champ lately. Am, nope, wrong, no, can't find more words to tell you that this is just not right. You say nicheitem adn at the same time it was basicly seen on every Champion: How is that niche? Neglibable damage to squishys? Excuse me? Is getting 33magicpen with sorcery botos and doing truedamage to squishys neglibable damage to squishys? Voidstuff is actualy a ebtter tankshreditem with it's %magigpen, the flatpen of liandrys was actualy FOR squishys. it is not a balanced item if every Mage and Assassin on Mid, Jungle, even Rumble Top, always bought that no matter the situation, as second Item. And niche is that definetly not. To split away the magicpen on a new item makes actual sense. So tehy took the RIGHT information and looked at it cause they have actual data and are not people who just haven't played much latly and threw around assumptiosna bout niche etc. There is no competive game where both Midlaners went haunting Guise second if they were mages, but sometimes even Corki built that. AND CORKI ISN'T EVEN A TANKSHREDDEr, he is a squishyburstchampion and Liandrys helped him to burst (plus ok, helped him little mroe to deal with tanks, but nto so much as a Voidstuff or Last whisper or more crit).

Barcid1 votes

You took quite literally only one aspect of the item. One teeny weeny aspect that when runes were still a thing was just a negligible stat. Basically the aspect of the item that doesn't play into its identity at all.

This is what we call "cherry picking" in an argument. So I'm going to explain to you very carefully what the issue is so that you don't tunnel-vision again:

The magic pen removal isn't the issue and isn't the item. It's an aspect of the item and can be done away with. It doesn't fit.

What was also changed - and that you're completely ignoring - is the % current HP change to % maximum HP change, this also being the reason that Mordekaiser is at risk of doing 100% of someone's HP with his ult. This change makes the effect just as effective - if not more effective - against squishies as it is against tanks.

So since you clearly can't come to the sheer logical conclusion yourself, I've spelt it out for you. The magic pen doesn't make the item like it does for Sorcerer's boots. Before this season, Liandry's was only for DoT mages and for when you needed to drop tanks - it's never been about just the magic pen. That stat can go wherever it wants. That new effect change is what fucks it.

Häxel1 votes

You took quite literally only one aspect of the item. One teeny weeny aspect that when runes were still a thing was just a negligible stat. Basically the aspect of the item that doesn't play into its identity at all....Before this season, Liandry's was only for DoT mages and for when you needed to drop tanks - it's never been about just the magic pen. That stat can go wherever it wants. That new effect change is what fucks it. Again, not realy right. item 3136 second/third was there literaly for 2 years. It amybe got more popular for the removal of Magic Resistancerunes, but good players valueded the early magicpen before runes reworked too. Every removal of early Magig Resistances is important. And yea, runes regorged lost mr runes on enemies, but also magicpenrunes and permamagicpenmasteries. Even before Runes Reforged you could do Truedamage. And pros used that. Since the Mageupdate 2016 where Abyssal went to be a tankitem ine xchange for Banshees, People used Liandrys far more often. You could see that on Oriana every Competive game (ori is nt a dotchampion). Or on syndra (literaly a burst champion). Ofcourse it is a Diffrence if you just build item 3136 or item 3151 , but cause item 3136 got you early the mpen vs squishys and teamfights already happen early around 12-15 min, it was effective to upgrade the item instant. Splitting the Item up between Magicpen and Tankbuster is definetly a better choice. Numbers can change, even on Pbe it was looked so Mordekaiser doesn't oneshot anymore. But you valudate the magicpen to low and at some point, either current or nerfed numbers on liandrys, the amgicpen clearly outshines damage o squishys. Ofcourse vs tanks who have 100 or 200 maigc resistance the 15magicpen of item 3165 can't hold up, but even on a Champion with 63 Magicresistance, reducing that with boots to 30mr makes a huge diffrence.

Barcid1 votes

Good job. You've once again managed to obsessively chase after the magic pen point while doing literally nothing to justify the actual passive change, which I've already specified was the issue that I have with the change.

I told you not to tunnel vision and you tunnel visioned so hard that you could make a literal tunnel to China. That is impressive.

Häxel1 votes

well, ignoring a tunnel which is already there to china and trying to take the hard tour to sail over the troublesome sea. You tell me that i tunnelvision on the magicpen while you originaly tunnelvision on the passive is even far more ironic.

Barcid1 votes

You're continuing to tunnel vision, since I had already said that the removal of magic pen was fine. I also originally said that Liandry's prominence as a second item was only widespread due to the rest of AP itemization being garbage tier by comparison. Making other items stronger is fine.

Liandry's never needed to be helped and it didn't need its actual passive changed. But here you are. Tunnel visioning on the magic pen as hard as ever. Do you read? Do you learn? I'm legitimately curious at this point since you've quite literally gathered nothing from everything I've said yet, there it is, all there to read. You just won't.

Häxel1 votes

so where is the proof that it does not needs its passive changed? where, who says that? beside you ofcourse. Is the proof mordekaiser ult? can be balanced, cna be changed, morde regardless needs a rework. You tell it needs not to be changed. Well, riot thinks it needs to be changed. otherwise they woudln't do that change. It's not that they have just a bunch of silverplayerdesingers there. They actualy talk with players from all elos about feedback, from bronze to challenger. they have a bunch of diamond plus playtesters. Otherwise as theis only exception of mordekaiser you mentioned there seem not much problematic. Look, it is maybe the same as with the introduction of gargoyels stoneplate and the frear that it is broken on cho'gath. Which it was. Gargoyels used max health for turning into all bonushealth, which his ult scalded. Riot changed so gargoyels turns base health into basehealth and bonus health into bonushealth. Sure, cho is still kidna strong with that item. But it got fairer and cho got basicly again forgotten, out of meta. Can easiyl happen the same with mordekaiser. Or not. But only for mordekaiser not doing a change would be dumb. Thigns can get balanced on pbe or after it too. Look their is the fedback and maybe you see it otherwise, but this will happen. As you told with your words "So you took that information. You looked at it long and hard. Considered it. And decided this was the item that needed a massive change. Gooooooooooood fucking job.", it is their job. To hear things, to decide, to make own descisions on balance. They can't try to go into every concern on the boards, cause the boards self not have one opionion altime. Or the comunity. 5 championroles, players of all kind, palyers who want yasuo buffs, players who want yasuo nerfs, rito ahs to decide what has to be done. Aczept that. Cause all you ahve done on your 2 coments on me was saying i have to look up again on mordekaiser and the passive and not tunnelvision. not more you told. and not more is there to tell. Cause after all, i'm not the riot dev team. You can do a thread on the pbe board maybe. Or on reddit. or complain as the first if a broken mordekaiser appears 8.4. or just stop playing for quite some tme or entirely. More you can't do.

TrevorAlu3 votes

These new item changes are so fucking dumb, like what the hell. Why are mages item costs going up when it should be the ADCs costs being raised. And why the hell does the new morellos give 300 hp??? Why would I want that over 400 mana??

Zed genius2 votes

Conspiracy theory: Riot saw all the people complaining about ap champs so they decided to break them to prove the point that they are OK in their current state

Iffy Jarl1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zed genius,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1Q5o5yfr,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2018-02-08T18:34:56.091+0000)

Conspiracy theory: Riot saw all the people complaining about ap champs so they decided to break them to prove the point that they are OK in their current state

Well people complained about dmg and people not having utility with mage build paths

Cowseed2 votes

You know... not too long ago a post suggesting that the item be split in two got upvoted quite a bit. So can you step back a bit, take a breather and maaaaaybe consider that just because it's a change it might not be.... a bad one? I know right? Crazy

Barcid1 votes

All right. I'm just going to use a straight example of difference between current Liandry's and the new effect. I won't even use Morde as the example:

Liandry's dealt less damage to you the lower your health pool was as it was based off of current health. Liandry's could not kill you unless you were literally at 1 point of health.

Liandry's now deals the same amount of damage period from beginning to end, meaning a damage over time effect can kill you 3 seconds after the effect has ended.

You just stepped on a Teemo shroom. In addition to the base damage off of his shroom as well as Aeri procing you, you have now suffered a total of 10.5% of your maximum health in damage from just Liandry's.

In an area. To everyone nearby you as well. Regardless of how much health you have left.

You don't want to know what Brand does in teamfights.

Teyloune2 votes

The Liandry's change is ok, its just a small Buff to Mordekaiser, making his ult deal 100% of your Max HP. Thats fine, at least that will make him viable until he gets a propper rework. [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Barcid2 votes

You're worried about Morde killing one guy.

I'd be more worried about Teemo killing your whole team while he's splitpushing on the other side of the map.

It Hertz When IP1 votes

Meanwhile, supports just lost their Catalyst item. GLP has now been reworked into a mage item. Yay. So now as an enchanter support, NONE of the items that can proc Glacial Augment are particularly useful to me.

And oh yay... more CDR on everything. Looks like Transcendence just became the new mandatory rune choice.

TeCoolMage3 votes

Take twin shadows. It is way better than you'd expect

It Hertz When IP1 votes

Assuming it's the same as the original, it's good, but not as useful for that "OMG the enemy just dived my ADC" reaction.

xelaker1 votes

none of it is a real step in the right direction. It's like saying we have to go north, and we go Northeast. it's not as wrong as going south would be right?

Ralik0981 votes

Another case of Riot trying to fix that which is not broken.

Revali1 votes

Anivia item 3151

Ive always hated this stupid bird, looks like banning her is going to be a legitimate thing now.

Wolvahulk1 votes

You think this is bad take a look at what they did with jungle items lol.

ModJikker1 votes

Removed an unnecessary insult. Let's make sure that we keep it friendly in here

Carry on

[poppy-wink]

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