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Here's how I would have nerfed jax instead

Tychusfindlay918·Nov 30, 2018·25 votes·10,882 views

Counter strike stun duration from 1 second >>>>> .5 seconds +.25 seconds for each enemy champion auto dodged, up to 1 second

This way jax is rewarded for better timed counterstrikes rather than "I'm just gunna activate this so I can jump on you and bash your face in."

Counter strike is hilariously good as a purely offensive initiation tool when it should be more of a defensive tool.

One of Jax's most ridiculous trading patterns in lane is E > Q > AA > W > walk away while you're still stunned. There's little reason to save counter strike as a defensive option when you can use it for a ridiculously strong offensive option. This way if he jumps on you and tries to go HAM without caring about timing E to really dodge autos then you can turn around the fight on him before he can just walk away.

His late game is good but it's not as insane as people make it out to be. He isn't the best dueler and his teamfight is kind of trash. The current nerf is pretty silly and will end up being one of those "well its better than nothing" nerfs.

25 Comments

OneMustFallNov 30, 20188 votes

He isn't the best dueler

Uhh what?

ThefrostyvikingNov 30, 20181 votes

{quoted}

He isn't the best dueler

Uhh what?

Pretty sure Fiora and Yi beats him if they build for it, not entirely sure though.

Tryndamere might also do it.

Could be possible for yasou as well.

SexualNutsNov 30, 20184 votes

Absolutely not even close. Yi? Jax is literally Yi's biggest counter in the entire game. There is no way Yi should even take 10% of Jax's HP on full build unless Jax used his E on someone else... but that's not a duel.

ThefrostyvikingNov 30, 20185 votes

{quoted}

Absolutely not even close. Yi? Jax is literally Yi's biggest counter in the entire game. There is no way Yi should even take 10% of Jax's HP on full build unless Jax used his E on someone else... but that's not a duel.

The idea is that Yi can either bail out by running with his ungodly movespeed or Q to avoid the jax stun and Yi has the highest DPS of any melee in the game, just something like rageblade+bloodrazor+1 more damage item and he melts through almost anything.

I got that deal playing Shyvana, had one deal 1,3 k true damage in less than 3 seconds and 1,7 k AD damage in the same timespan.

However admittedly its probably in Jax´s favor still but i have no doubt that one bad move and Yi wins......well goes for either side really.

SexualNutsNov 30, 20183 votes

You're talking with someone who has had this matchup possibly hundreds of times. I love seeing Yi on the enemy team as a Jax main.

You're theory crafting. I'm speaking from experience!

It's true Yi can medicate or alpha through the stun part of counterstrike. But the reality is Jax mitigates a lot of Yi's damage through his counterstrike, while being tanky enough to take Yi's damage and also has enough damage to melt through Yi. Actually I'm more than confident full build Jax could 1v1 full build Yi even without his counterstrike.

This is before we even consider Jax with lifesteal (Bork or gunblade) will heal back up a good chunk while he is using his counterstrike and then if Jax has Essence reaver, his counterstrike is literally STRAIGHT back off CD as Yi has no CC to stop jax from stacking his passive.

The outcome is Jax does more damage than Yi because he can mitigate Yi's damage, while being a lot tankier. Yi can't run away because Jax just saves his Q for the stun portion of his E.

Jax item 3078 item 3748 item 3508 item 3146 item 3124 item 3047

Jax could also destroy Yi with a tanky build or even AP build. He could go AD crit build and oneshot Yi.

Haze97Dec 1, 20181 votes

Trynda is the only duelist who can on a similar level. Jax's counter strike allows him to do everything between spamming abilities, auto-attacking, and setting up the herald. To add to that he can stun an entire team at once at the end of the two seconds. Fiora doesn't even come close to how close Jax is.

To add to that he can use ward hops to get over walls without having to use flash which makes him anazing at split pushing (at which point you send more than one person to stop him.)

Tychusfindlay918Nov 30, 20184 votes

{quoted}

He isn't the best dueler

Uhh what?

I know this sounds insane. But he's not the best dueler.

He loses out to late game nasus, loses out to a decent fiora late game, loses out to tryndamere late game, and even has a hard time dealing with illaoi late game if she gets a spirit pull before pressing R.

He's not the best dueler LATE GAME which is exactly what I said in the OP and which you conveniently left out.

Mid game if he doesnt fall behind in lane he's a hilariously potent dueler sure.

SexualNutsNov 30, 20183 votes

Dude, you are wrong. While I agree with the topic, and wouldn't mind your suggestion, this is wrong.

I have mained Jax since S2 and I can honestly, genuinely tell you that the only time Jax loses a duel at full build is by an outplay from a mage - which isn't technically a duel. (I.e. squishy build on Jax but brand, ziggs, lbl, xerath etc manage a perfect combo and get out of Jax's stun). But again this would be an outplay rather than due to being stronger 1v1 late game.

Want evidence? I will happily do a custom game and show you. Jax can literally oneshot a Fiora without taking damage. Don't get me started on tryndamere. Jax only needs essence reaver and he can suddenly have almost perma E to negate all of Tryn damage and with gunblade Jax will heal back up during his counterstrike and stun. Illaoi? I have played twice vs Illaoi in my last 4-5 games and absolutely destroyed her past level 6. And Jax KEEPS scaling like that to the point where he can duel anyone without taking any damage practically - mainly due to essence reaver right now.

Trust me on this - before Essence reaver I would say he was the strongest duelist 100% but could lose maybe a couple of late game fights (but overall the best). But with ER there is not a melee champ who can come near him. I had 2.5 million mastery points on Jax this season on my other account, the most in EUW at the time. Trust me ;)

KVbqbFsC8eNov 30, 20183 votes

They should have just nerfed Conqueror and Ignite, which would solve a bunch of problems, including Jax. I don't think he himself needs direct nerfs.

SexualNutsNov 30, 20183 votes

I'd rather them nerf/change ALL of these items as they can break champions.

Conqueror item 3078 item 3748 item 3508

BUT, as Rito just won't. I'd rather any of the below nerfs:

Q has 50 less range (so that he doesn't have such an easy time leaping onto champs who flash away mainly) E has a 1 sec higher CD at all ranks Ultimate has less bonus resistance scalings (Full AD/HP Jax gets 200 armor bonus on his ult at the moment....) Lower base attack speed (aimed at Jungle Jax)

I'd be fine with any of these. The change you suggested could work, but I honestly think reducing his CC moves him CLOSER to the likes of Tryn, Yi, Fiora and Yas. I don't want another full ham melee carry. I want a bruiser hypercarry.

Warlord RhinarkNov 30, 20182 votes

Make it so it doesn't have to be Champion Autos and it can be any Autos and you have my support.

Tychusfindlay918Nov 30, 20184 votes

[{quoted}](name=Warlord Rhinark,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1LOExA82,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-11-30T07:50:57.454+0000)

Make it so it doesn't have to be Champion Autos and it can be any Autos and you have my support.

No that's stupid.

Warlord RhinarkNov 30, 20182 votes

{quoted}

No that's stupid.

No u

>:/

PoskeNov 30, 20182 votes

1 second stun is low as it is so I disagree

Jax needs a new W primarly

Iota ThetaNov 30, 20183 votes

{quoted}

1 second stun is low as it is so I disagree

Jax needs a new W primarly

A one second stun is low, but that’s about par with some other similar fighters. But a big issue with it is that people don’t use it as the defensive tool it’s supposed to be, but rather before a trade starts to get the stun and win the trade unless the opponent can somehow turn before he backs off, especially if he’s doing it with a Conquerer proc.

SaezioNov 30, 20181 votes

{quoted}

1 second stun is low as it is so I disagree

Jax needs a new W primarly

New Ult wouldn't be bad I think. Maybe give him some resistances passively and the active turns him into a more damage heavy but less tanky champ. At the moment the decision of " When to use my ulti?" does not exist, well if you got reaver you might need to actually be a tad more careful about when to ult for more efficiency but all in all you always just press it because the CD is not too bad and the defences are not even that detrimental that you are at too much of a disadvantage when it is on CD. I guess W has the same issue of never having to think " When to use this spell ".

I dislike these abilities that just have a face value and that is it all the time, same value, can't be missplayed

Tychusfindlay918Nov 30, 20181 votes

{quoted}

1 second stun is low as it is so I disagree

Jax needs a new W primarly

It's really not, his animations are fast. In the time he AA > W he can walk away with half the stun still remaining.

R35URR3C710NNov 30, 20182 votes

The power of on-hit builds, Conqueror, and the reduction to tank options has really made Jax's life easier. His offensive options are really strong right now (Rageblade, gunblade, tforce, bloodrazor) and the current defensive item climate favors bruiser/skirmisher types over pure tank options (Maw, Steraks, Visage to synergize with LS/SV). Jax really only needs to survive long enough to get a second rotation off if his first didn't kill you outright, so his defensive items help him survive burst, and he just heals through sustained damage.

I believe it is the current damage climate that suits Jax that is to blame for his strength, as he's historically only been obscenely strong when he's able to abuse items that are out of line. I predict that if the meta were ever to shift back to a viable tank meta he'll need to be rebuffed.

HügöNov 30, 20182 votes

I would have changed his E that while he uses it, he can't attack.

Sire HippingtonDec 1, 20181 votes

that would just play into the current playstyle, activate E, jump in and directly stun and then burst the target duering the stun thx to the double reset from W+Titanic. It would just push him more into the unhealthy assasins pattern and away from his actuall bruiser roots.

hewhodoesnotcareNov 30, 20182 votes

Stop trying to convince riot on how to balance because they don't listen. And are shit. Riot deserve to burn in the burning shit hole they have dug and refuse to acknowledge it.

Starcraft243verNov 30, 20181 votes

One of Jax's most ridiculous trading patterns in lane is E > Q > AA > W > walk away while you're still stunned.

Why would he walk away since you are dead or nearly dead after this combo ?

Scorpio SznDec 1, 20181 votes

Jax is literally the best duelist in the game simply because out of every champion who can abuse ER he gets the most benefit out of it.

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