Boards›Gameplay

To people that hate ADC.

Krytoric··8 votes·1,788 views

Give me a realistic reason on why you hate them, and not a "cause i died in 2 autos with 200 armor" cause no you didn't. No "well i lost 1v1 when i was fed and had more items" cause if you did, you suck. ADCs get literally one shot by EVERYTHING in this damn game, and have the least amount of items to compensate for it, even tho they have life steal, that doesn't prevent 2500 damage from an assassin in 0.5 seconds, it gives sustain for long drawn out fights.

Also no "the build path is so much cheaper than every other role" cause its not. Gold wise, its cheaper than some, more expensive than others, but every other role becomes useful after 0.5 / 1 item, whereas ADC needs 2-3 to actually start feeling decent.

Ive put 2 years of practice into ADC, and nothing feels good in that role. If you dont get Cait / Kai'sa, you're going to die all game with little to no choice on why or how.

Tanks being insanely OP, Conqueror being an awful addition to the game, towers being beyond useless, and everyone one shotting, makes ADC hell. I dont get how people can realistically say ADC is broken.

Also 90% of the time, supports are what dictate bot lane, a good support will borderline 1v2 a bot lane if they know what they're doing, zoning them off, warding at good times, backing at good times (not backing in vision REEEEE) roaming at good times and being proactive, will beat a good ADC any day.

Also, i used to be an ADC main, but i left that shit for jg / mid. Its so much easier to have a meaningful impact on the game, without having to rely on someone.

12 Comments

redniwediS4 votes

When a Marksman goes bot lane I don't hate them, I hate the support that foils everything I try to do. In this case it's less a hate hate, and more a "for the love of all that is good stop doing your job so well" hate.

When a Marksman goes top I hate them because I play immobile melee champions, and the only reason people take most Marksmen top is to abuse the strength of kiting. They are fine being human pieces of shit and don't really care if it's a good experience for me, so they more than earn my hate.

Ranmaru3 votes

you deal so much damage and all you do is get pocketed by your team and no tanks aernt insanely op

420 grams3 votes

I hate that if your team has an adc that's way behind or doesn't group, you have no realistic way to siege. If they don't want to do baron, your team probably can't safely take baron. You want to group and siege a mid tower but your adc doesn't want to? Can't take it. If your adc is behind and is getting pushed with no vision control, you can't contest dragon.

Winning the game strategically is just too dependent on them at least staying somewhat even with the enemy. A 0/4 top laner sucks but a 0/4 adc is devastating.

ZT Xperimentor3 votes

Just to prove your opening line wrong . . . https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/Jf8wEuwp-heres-a-thought-why-not-cut-ranged-crit-damage-down-to-150-instead-of-200?comment=001900000000

To retort in asnwer to your question I'll make a list, and yes I'll elaborate in greater detail on something if you ask. A) Marksmen have the most reliable and unavoidable damage in the game besides being at range, bar ridiculously extreme edge cases like veigar and nasus. Jax, teemo, graves, and quinn are the only ones capable of consistently denying their damage via blinding abilities. B) Have multiple damage multipliers unlike every other class; attack damage, attack speed, and critical hits; runner up carries such as mages have ability power and cooldown reduction, and melee carries generally have to be point blank to be as dangerous. C) Some of the cheapest item combos, not to mention several items to overcome their weaknesses; for a class that's supposed to be a glass cannon aimed at objectives. For example four of the prime critical hit items are only 2600 gold, the cheapest armor item (iceborn gauntlet) is 2700 gold, along with the rod of ages for mages. D) And have the widest variety of safety nets, not only in their items or kits (bet you'd be surprised how creative players are), but also from riot balancing every other class around them; supports got better shields and heals, assassins had their burst delayed, tanks made more kitable, mages repeatedly nerfed so they can't carry comparably , ext. E) Have been the sole mandatory class for over seven years; people like to say it's a 'blank' meta, but even when it's obviously true, when and how long to 'blanks' actually replace marksmen and remain viable?

If you're having problems playing marksmen, I'd suggest paying attention to positioning and build smartly; know what the enemy team is capable of and play against their favor, such as hiding behind your tank when a picker champion scoots up, or getting armor penetration if they have several tanks.

Krytoric2 votes

Those pictures are a joke right? in every single one of them, you were at about 50% hp, against 2+ people, and they all took 3-4 seconds to kill you. You should ALWAYS die 1v3 as a tank, the fact you lasted that long proves my point.

Point 1 - Their damage is as avoidable as everyone else’s, it has counter and it’s a simple one - armor. There’s multiple items in the game that can completely ruin an ADC, build 2 armor items thats all you need to do.

Point 2 - Everyone in the game has the same amount of “Damage multipliers”

You can build the EXACT same items on Master Yi and 2 shot an ADC and shred everyone, but he remains unstoppable. Tanks have damage reduction items, cause they SHOULDNT have damage, but they still do. Juggernauts have built in Damage Mulitpliers, 9 time out of 10, if you’re remotely close to a Juggernaut as a squishy, you’re getting ulted with a point and click true damage execute, that usually insta kills. Bruisers like jax have so much on hit power and gap closers, that you can get 3 shot before you can move. Mages have over time damage, without having to be in range after casting the ability, Malz E, constant Ziggs Q’s, Cass poision, Ryze can CS and you can die by being close to your own minions.

Point 3 - This one is my favourite by far cause you don’t realize how dumb it sounds, yes our CHEAPEST item is 2600g, but alone it’s beyond useless, attack speed and crit is pointless without an IE, so an ADC hits their spike at 5000g, whereas with your CHEAPEST item, you get Armor, CDR, Mana, on hit damage, and an AoE slow, so with a single item, you get as much as an ADC gets with 2, for half the price.

Point 4 - What? Almost every single champ in this game has loads of CC, if you’re some how playing a champ with no CC, you can literally build it. Assassins HAD delayed burst, but not anymore Rengar, LB, Zed, Talon, Fizz, Ekko, Akali, Evelynn, Katarina, Shaco, hell anyone that builds Drakthar becomes an assassin. Assassins needed counterplay (they just did it in the wrong way imo) Assassins are right back to how they used to be, 90% of the champs in this game, can do what an assassin does because everything does way too my damage. And mages can’t carry? are you joking LOL? There’s a reason they’re permanently played in the LCS, there’s a reason why teams without AP almost insta lose, even lower tier mages do absurd damage, Ziggs, Taliyah, Xerath, just to name a few do SO much damage, with a single item. Do we need to talk about Zoe?

Point 5 - Every game is like that, every MOBA, even games like WoW have the exact same mechanics, you need a mix of range, tank, melee, supportive and combinations of them. Tanks are mandatory in this game, AP is mandatory in this game, CC is mandatory in this game, Supportive champs are mandatory in this game, junglers are mandatory in this game.

And i know i didn’t play perfectly, i’m not Faker, i make mistakes every game, but a majority of my losses came from things i couldn’t control as an ADC, that i can with jungle. People act like ADC have some hellish grip over the game and you can’t win if the other team has one, but i’ve literally never had a problem with them, obviously some in their prime were OP, but that’s the same with every role in the game.

ZT Xperimentor2 votes

The death recap only shows the highest sources of damage, I was usually tagged by aoes but it'd only amount to 5~15% of my health, hence those don't show up. Not the point however, compare the defensive and offensive items then notice how much damage was dealt in the short time frame.

Dodge hasn't been a stat for over 5 years, tell me how you avoid ranged auto-attacks without cheating. Ignoring kalista being the only exception by herself from lacking vision; again look at the example screenshots where I have 2-3 armor items and still loose thousands of health to marksmen in seconds.

Since when do mages critically hit with spells? Just how effective is attack speed on a tank? Not to mention lifesteal is amplified by damage, attack speed, and critical damage; which neither of those mentioned classes benefit from.

Oh number three . . . item 3046 item 3094 item 3085 item 3087 all are only 2600 gold, and two of which were rush items in the meta for over a month each. How about those extra effects shall we? First has damage reduction in duels and boosted movement for kiting and chasing, second increases range significantly and adds bonus magic damage, third conditionally triples all other on-hit effects, fourth also adds magic splash damage that can critically hit. item 3193 item 3025 item 3110 item 3143 The first I forgot about (it's at 2500) but it offers little armor unless surrounded which is more useful against assassins and tanks than marksmen, the second only offers armor which is still mediocre, the third still only offers armor but it's passive effect is a noobtrap from pitiful effectiveness, and the fourth is only useful if the marksmen forgoes any armor penetration.

On point four; assassins have never been a healthy class purely from design in a pvp environment, either being dead-weight on the team or being able to instakill the enemy; I don't care about those so called 'pros' riot obsesses over, and riot has been making the newest champions the more overloaded than the previous (compare vi to thresh, bard to ekko, and obviously zoe to ornn) for several years now, mostly thanks to the previously mentioned awareness of esports. However that's not what I'm getting at; some support items gained 'heals and sheilds are +XX% stronger' passives, the mastery rework added more options of sustain, and some of the marksmen items themselves offer more than other class counterparts. Phantom dancer gives damage reduction in duels, death's dance slows burst damage taken ontop of having lifesteal, essence reaver makes mana costs and cooldowns a non-issue on any critical built marksman, guardian's angel has been changed twice to benefit marksmen more than any other class, maw of malmortius has a free anti-magic shield and had conditional lifesteal tacked on without a price bump, mercurial scimitar also gained lifesteal while keeping it's cc-shed active, rapidfire cannon alows them to occasionally poke from safe distance, the runaan's hurricane was a niche pick until riot traded some attack speed for critical chance, bloodthirster originally didn't have an overheal shield. Knight's vow allows another champion to partially bodyblock all damage they take, other armor items have lost armor for health loosing next durability (most obvious being thornmail). Nearly every mage item have lost ability power since their 'class update', practically requiring the deathcap for any significant damage spike, which is still one of the most expensive items in the game.

A mixed team is fine, however every position has mas multiple classes viable for a lengthy period of time except the physical carry. For a few months multiple marksmen teams were meta, think about that. Marksmen were needed for objectives, the towers and jungle bosses; however towers have been repeatedly nerfed for years making them unnecessary for that, and damage creep has made the jungle bosses solo-able to anyone aware of their exploitation (except support), don't overlook the minion buff they added for increased snowballing. Despite other classes being able to take objectives relatively quickly, marksmen remain mandatory for 7 years. Neither tanks nor mages nor assassins have had such luxury for noticeable time. With a handful of competent supports who needs a tank because they have loads of heals and shields? With a few good mages who needs assassins to blow up someone? Got a bunch of front-liners so why bother dodging enemy spells when they won't reach anyway? Each of these metas last only for a month or two then quickly removed, either by changes to items/champions, or a better synergy being discovered; however marksmen haven't been repeatedly replaceable, and the month they did, riot buffed several things to put them back ontop, just look at season six. Mage carries were still a huge thing in season five, then couldn't keep up in season six, and never really recovered in season seven.

Neither am I, especially since I've been out of practice; and you bring up a reoccurring problem, some people want to be able to solo-carry, others want a group effort for victory. I think there should be some middle ground where both are viable options, but riot hasn't appeared to be interested in that. Thing is, riot has always played favorites with marksmen and (flashy champions), whenever another class outperforms they get kneecap nerfs, but marksmen just get a slap on the wrist, just look at the current patch; some mages and tanks got a few big nerfs to impact their effectiveness, but couple marksmen got several slight nerfs to call it a nerf but hardly does anything. Granted unconventional and unusual kits need more tuning than others, but overloaded kits should have terrible ratios for cost since they have the capacity to so so much (ever try nautilus as a mage? Remember when tank ekko was abusive?).

Danni Chimes2 votes

[{quoted}](name=ZT Xperimentor,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1KrdpNXI,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2018-04-20T21:25:38.703+0000)

The death recap only shows the highest sources of damage, I was usually tagged by aoes but it'd only amount to 5~15% of my health, hence those don't show up. Not the point however, compare the defensive and offensive items then notice how much damage was dealt in the short time frame.

Dodge hasn't been a stat for over 5 years, tell me how you avoid ranged auto-attacks without cheating. Ignoring kalista being the only exception by herself from lacking vision; again look at the example screenshots where I have 2-3 armor items and still loose thousands of health to marksmen in seconds.

Since when do mages critically hit with spells? Just how effective is attack speed on a tank? Not to mention lifesteal is amplified by damage, attack speed, and critical damage; which neither of those mentioned classes benefit from.

Oh number three . . . item 3046 item 3094 item 3085 item 3087 all are only 2600 gold, and two of which were rush items in the meta for over a month each. How about those extra effects shall we? First has damage reduction in duels and boosted movement for kiting and chasing, second increases range significantly and adds bonus magic damage, third conditionally triples all other on-hit effects, fourth also adds magic splash damage that can critically hit. item 3193 item 3025 item 3110 item 3143 The first I forgot about (it's at 2500) but it offers little armor unless surrounded which is more useful against assassins and tanks than marksmen, the second only offers armor which is still mediocre, the third still only offers armor but it's passive effect is a noobtrap from pitiful effectiveness, and the fourth is only useful if the marksmen forgoes any armor penetration.

On point four; assassins have never been a healthy class purely from design in a pvp environment, either being dead-weight on the team or being able to instakill the enemy; I don't care about those so called 'pros' riot obsesses over, and riot has been making the newest champions the more overloaded than the previous (compare vi to thresh, bard to ekko, and obviously zoe to ornn) for several years now, mostly thanks to the previously mentioned awareness of esports. However that's not what I'm getting at; some support items gained 'heals and sheilds are +XX% stronger' passives, the mastery rework added more options of sustain, and some of the marksmen items themselves offer more than other class counterparts. Phantom dancer gives damage reduction in duels, death's dance slows burst damage taken ontop of having lifesteal, essence reaver makes mana costs and cooldowns a non-issue on any critical built marksman, guardian's angel has been changed twice to benefit marksmen more than any other class, maw of malmortius has a free anti-magic shield and had conditional lifesteal tacked on without a price bump, mercurial scimitar also gained lifesteal while keeping it's cc-shed active, rapidfire cannon alows them to occasionally poke from safe distance, the runaan's hurricane was a niche pick until riot traded some attack speed for critical chance, bloodthirster originally didn't have an overheal shield. Knight's vow allows another champion to partially bodyblock all damage they take, other armor items have lost armor for health loosing next durability (most obvious being thornmail). Nearly every mage item have lost ability power since their 'class update', practically requiring the deathcap for any significant damage spike, which is still one of the most expensive items in the game.

A mixed team is fine, however every position has mas multiple classes viable for a lengthy period of time except the physical carry. For a few months multiple marksmen teams were meta, think about that. Marksmen were needed for objectives, the towers and jungle bosses; however towers have been repeatedly nerfed for years making them unnecessary for that, and damage creep has made the jungle bosses solo-able to anyone aware of their exploitation (except support), don't overlook the minion buff they added for increased snowballing. Despite other classes being able to take objectives relatively quickly, marksmen remain mandatory for 7 years. Neither tanks nor mages nor assassins have had such luxury for noticeable time. With a handful of competent supports who needs a tank because they have loads of heals and shields? With a few good mages who needs assassins to blow up someone? Got a bunch of front-liners so why bother dodging enemy spells when they won't reach anyway? Each of these metas last only for a month or two then quickly removed, either by changes to items/champions, or a better synergy being discovered; however marksmen haven't been repeatedly replaceable, and the month they did, riot buffed several things to put them back ontop, just look at season six. Mage carries were still a huge thing in season five, then couldn't keep up in season six, and never really recovered in season seven.

Neither am I, especially since I've been out of practice; and you bring up a reoccurring problem, some people want to be able to solo-carry, others want a group effort for victory. I think there should be some middle ground where both are viable options, but riot hasn't appeared to be interested in that. Thing is, riot has always played favorites with marksmen and (flashy champions), whenever another class outperforms they get kneecap nerfs, but marksmen just get a slap on the wrist, just look at the current patch; some mages and tanks got a few big nerfs to impact their effectiveness, but couple marksmen got several slight nerfs to call it a nerf but hardly does anything. Granted unconventional and unusual kits need more tuning than others, but overloaded kits should have terrible ratios for cost since they have the capacity to so so much (ever try nautilus as a mage? Remember when tank ekko was abusive?).

Bodied.

ZT Xperimentor1 votes

Hmm?

Danni Chimes2 votes

Your rebuttal was 100% on point.

ZT Xperimentor1 votes

Oh, thanks.

makkii1 votes

What I find amusing is how people have explained in detail ad nauseum why they think adc is overpowered, but there’s always some retard on this forum who’s like “no but really, give me some actually reasoned arguments that aren’t adc instakilled me with 200 armor” as if these arguments don’t currently exist.

At this point I’m unsure of the quality of adc mains reading comprehension.

DigitalExile1 votes

After playing about 3 seasons and getting to D5, you're more likely to see people struggling against ad's in low elo. Most players don't know how to abuse early game weakness in low elo hence why high percentage of players pick adc when starting off, It progressively gets harder to play adc as you grind up which is why I stick to jg as my secondary. In my assessment, low elo players are more likely to struggle against champs they find annoying - such as adc - and champs that require minimal micro (lux, annie, etc).

In the end, I feel supports are bit overtuned but you will still see these hate threads pop up. Nothing you can do about it

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by Krytoric

Towers are insanely bad
Gameplay79 comments
189
votes
I wish riot would come out and explain what they're doing with league, as it seems so broken.
Gameplay96 comments
117
votes
tfw you get killed and riot doesnt even know what happened to you
Gameplay46 comments
77
votes
The most awkward story i have regarding league
General Discussion27 comments
68
votes
Flex Queue is awful..
Gameplay14 comments
16
votes
I dont like that theres no mana sustain on AP champs
Gameplay19 comments
12
votes