Penetration - A Damage Creep Discussion

Stacona··2 votes·646 views

The game right now, in my opinion, just feels like everyone dies way too fast and even tanks since penetration and shredding has gotten out of hand. I actually think less penetration would be better for the game as it makes things easier to balance and replace it with alternate methods to kill tanks and squishies based on the effect and item being purchased. Most importantly, I want to make roles do specific jobs rather than jack of all trades and the one role that is weaker at it does not see play.

Games like League of Legends has 4 roles:

~ Tanks (meat sponges) ~ Supports (they help the team) ~ Damage (they hurt the enemy) ~ Flanks (Assassins should be reworked into this instead, where it is about neutralizing / taking out the enemy backline without the need to instant kill or kill at all even, creating a better game health experience without super mobile or other ways to get to the backline, fast kills)

Out of 5 champions per team, tanks and supports should occupy THREE (3) of the champions (1 tank, 2 supports - 1 support, 2 tanks) to be in a healthy state for the game. This means the game is balanced and there is not an extreme for too much damage or too little damage. This also means that players do not feel like they instantly die, which is what we want to avoid because helplessness is never fun for any game. Whenever I play an RPG, I HATE cheap instant kill deaths, there is nothing you can do about it and no strategy to play around it - bad game design - and this is different than being under leveled where you are solo Rex at level 5 getting one shot against the level 80 gorilla (Xenoblade Chronicles 2 for those that do not know what I am talking about), in this case you can clearly avoid the gorilla until you are leveled up and strong enough to eventually get your revenge in the late game.

Anyways, point is, when players play any game, they want to feel like there is something that they can do about it. Right now when an assassin jumps out of no where or a mage lands a stun and then you get instantly killed, there is nothing you could do to counter that, that has any kind of fairness of gameplay. Same with marksmen in the late game, they should be only about their sustain damage and deal LOW DAMAGE (emphasis on LOW) and instead of crits dealing more damage, they deal more efficient damage - burst mages and assassins can have the same treatment in ways that do not boost their bursty spells more against their target and instead have tools to have the damage that they deal to stick better, so they need multiple runs to kill their target rather than have no-counter-play unfairness.

I need to give some examples of what to work off of:

Marksmen: ~ Make them sustain damage, low damage dealers about killing tanks. ~ Critical strike damage REMOVED and replaced with critical strikes convert 50% of the damage to TRUE damage instead (Infinity Edge buffs it further). Have their damage low on purpose so that they are bad against squishies, but very good against tanks, like where they are supposed to be killing anyways.

Flanks (Assassins): ~ Rework this class completely, the champions need to be more defined and become unique TO EACH OTHER, as well as better gameplay for game health reasons and grant them team utility in some form. Make them Flankers, this way it specifies their job as not killers, but those that get to the enemy backline and disrupt it creating a much healthier gameplay pattern and an actual purpose for their team, offering more room for creativity to make this class of champions cool and different to each other with different forms of utility to get to the backline, disrupt it, and get out through either mobility means, stealth mechanics, or some new forms of cool and fun utility. ~ Removed lethality and % armour penetration and everything similar. Replace the last whisper items into physical damage flanker items, one will cause physical damage from spells to deal bonus damage to shields and the other is physical damage from spells applies grievous wounds. Stats and gold cost adjusted, but this allows the class to have their damage stick rather than make their burst stronger and grant better gameplay with reducing their damage, but not make them irrelevant since a weakened target makes them scared and the Damage does less damage since they are low on health. Applies on spell damage to keep marksmen away from it. ~ Black Cleaver shred could be looked at, make sure it is focused as a bruiser item, but not sure what direction it should be taken in.

Burst Mages: ~ Remove flat magic penetration, Void Staff remains the same (maybe a small boost to its penetration with flat pen removed). Reason why Void Staff remains the same, with possibly a slight boost to its % penetration, is because mages do not have another system to use that says it is specifically meant to help kill tanks, they are on a champion by champion basis and % pen is not great against squishies anyways and good against tanks. % armour pen has the same logic, but making tank busting in crit chance makes sense for the aspect that crit chance is meant to be like a vital, lethal shot anyways and is a stat only marksmen can use, allows for the opportunity to make marksmen FOCUSED into tank busting and weak against other squishies by lowering the amount of damage that they deal and since only marksmen build crit chance (rework Yasuo anyways), it is a perfect way to have it turned into the tank busting aspect and help better balance marksmen, so no longer a need for armour pen. ~ In its place will grant alternate effects in the same vein as flankers, bonus damage to shields and grievous wounds, Morellos would just become cheaper with its magic penetration removal. Oblivion Orb's cost is the same, but its magic penetration is replaced with dealing magic damage causes the target to have its next shield or heal against it to be reduced by x% within x seconds. Oblivion Orb will gain an alternate upgrade, same stats and costs as what Morellos would be at, but instead of magic damage applying grievous wounds, magic damage deals bonus damage against shields - of course you could eventually get both items for grievous wounds and shield destruction if you so desire (reminder, you are giving up other potential items in the process). ~ This just allows for the damage of the burst mage to stick, but not increase the burst damage for the opposition does not feel cheated to their death and there is something that they can do about what is going on. ~ Sorcery Boosts obviously would get a change too, so maybe something like Haunting Guise's passive would be fitting, grant something nice for mages without granting unfairness from burst mages - but still can be useful for burst mages' second round of abilities after waiting for the damage amp to heat up. Pretty much grant something in a similar fashion of what the magic pen did, but with better gameplay to it that grants some kind of fairness for it.


Thanks for sticking with me for so long for those that made it through all this. I just want League of Legends to be a fun game to play and right now I am enjoying Paladins since the game is not about instant killing and I feel like there is something I can do to live or play better, plus I am getting the sense of what brought me to League of Legends in the first place. One game is providing the fun while the other is in an awkward phase right now, and here I may have only talked about penetration, but the runes do play a massive part in the damage creep as well - and maybe some over buffing on some abilities - but I just wanted to talk about one thing at a time and give ideas to help improve the game for I can find it fun again.

I cannot be the only one that does not find it fun, at all, where the game has it where you just instantly die and it is super snowbally where the opponent gets a bunch of gold from you by denying your minions, killing the turret from one death, and how unfair it is from how fast you die as well. Turrets die too quickly (in part because Riot gutted their durability) and they have slightly lackluster damage as well just adds to the snowball which adds to the damage creep since the gold they get gives them an item lead, which gets you to die even faster, which grants them more gold and exp, and look the game is over before 15 minutes... AND IT WAS NOT EVEN AN OPEN MID... (I do wish players would consider time as an important commodity too, and when the game is lost, just let it end and move on with our lives, we are not having fun anymore with flaming each other, so we NEED to move on to something or another game to keep our sanity instead of being stuck in a hell hole).

I started with a calm discussion and starting to rant, so time to end... BAI~ BAI~! [sg-kiko]

2 Comments

The Bad Touch1 votes

If the game was balanced we'd seee ADC/APC/Tank/Support/Bruiser or Fighter every game. (In this context Zed is an ADC and FIzz is an APC) Bit it isn't.

What we really see is ADC/ADC/ADC/APC/APC-support.

What we'd like to see is Maokai/Jax/Azir/Ashe/Janna. What we get is Zed/Talon/Jhin/Fizz/Brand.

Simple fact is tanks need 3 items + T2 boots before they can tank anything. Assassins need a Duskblade to kill you.

Stacona1 votes

There are more layers that need to be addressed, but rather than complaining about it, I actually gave some kind of feedback with ONE of the systems that can change to help improve the game.

This was never meant to address everything, this is just talking about one of the overlying systems. Other things that can be addressed / looked at is the rune system being adjusted since it is really adding to damage creep and give tanks nothing that helps out their defenses for building defenses and rewards those going full damage instead, which is weird - plus an insane amount of damage (and mobility) rather than other utility effects.

Then there is looking at items and how much damage each ability does, but should address the systems that effects everyone first before fine tune balancing. Item would be the 3rd thing to look at then champion balance last, challenging smite and ignite are problematic things too.

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