Fiddlesticks' Design is the Problem Not Power Levels

Troy242621··2 votes·954 views

TL;DR: Fiddlesticks' weaknesses all synergize with one another, and his strengths are far less relevant against competent enemies leaving him as a pubstomper, of which there are far better choices.

I'm going to list what strengths and weaknesses Fiddlesticks has but before I do, I want to point out that at the bottom, I am willing to discuss context and application, rather than discuss the champion solely in a vacuum. Such demonstrations are rarely fruitful otherwise, as describing a champion on its own is completely useless information.

With that said, onto what I see as his trade-offs.

Early Game

  1. He has to farm to 6 to gank well
  2. He has to wait ~140 seconds between ganks after 6
  3. He farms slowly and doesn't reach 6 very quickly
  4. Highly telegraphed ganks
  5. Extremely low pressure, relative to other junglers
  6. Prone to being counterjungled
  7. Very poor duelist
  8. If his ganks aren't seen coming, it's almost a certain kill
  9. Damage and CC in the same kit leads to strong ganks if they can actually be performed
  10. Theoretically, can solo dragon if he isn't interrupted and doesn't run out of mana
  11. Still highly mana intensive, exasperating his weakness to counterjungling

Mid Game

  1. Needs to continue farming to get item 3157 to teamfight, or people will simply burst him down if he ults in.
  2. People can out-run his ultimate radius pretty easily due to its limited range and casting time
  3. Extremely easy to avoid fiddle ults, because you can ward to see it coming.
  4. Casting time of the ultimate starts to matter more, because you cannot manually cancel it, unlike every other ultimate channel in existence
  5. CC interrupts his drain and ultimate, making wards even more effective.
  6. Can start to reap higher efficiency out of his ultimate, as it's AoE; the more potential targets he can get into the radius, the more efficient it becomes
  7. Given the above, it can be argued that his teamfighting becomes fairly potent at this point, although mid game wards are still a tremendous problem.
  8. His damage output begins to reach a relevant level for teamfighting at this point.

End Game

  1. Wards should be everywhere. This destroys any effectiveness Fiddlesticks can have.
  2. Teamfighting becomes far more difficult as the game has more wards placed, and teamfighting without summoner 4 becomes extremely difficult.
  3. Fiddlesticks' damage reaches near-carry or carry level, depending on how the game went. One good ult can cause catastrophic levels of damage.
  4. When everyone's' inventories are full, warding becomes harder.

Context If we look at the champion, we see he is gated at every point in the game. Early game, he requires level 6. Mid game, he needs hourglass and vision control. End game, he needs Flash and vision control with his ultimate and hourglass up.

HERE is where the issue with the champion lies. To gain vision control, YOUR TEAM MUST BE AHEAD. He has tremendously poor pressure compared to most other junglers. Chances are, his team isn't going to be ahead because of him. This is often the case with junglers that have a strong end game, and this is not the dealbreaker. **However, FIDDLESTICKS IS UNIQUE IN THAT HIS WEAKNESSES ALL SYNERGIZE WITH ONE ANOTHER. **

  1. His pressure is low, which can cost his team an early advantage. This in turn costs his team vision control, meaning that his mid game is by extension harder.

  2. He is prone to being counterjungled early game, but he has a strong reliance on blue buff, making it easy to set him back and deny him level 6 which lowers his pressure even further. Furthermore, he clears very slowly, making it easy to read his pattern and counterjungle him, or steal his camps. These all serve to again, deny him his mid game.

  3. He's very predictable. Through warding, knowing what it is that Fiddlesticks does, knowing where he can ult from, knowing his clear path, knowing he'll in all likelihood rush 6 and so on makes it very easy to assume what Fiddlesticks is going to do. This likewise means you know where to ward to prevent Fiddle ganks.

  4. You need vision control or summoner 4 to land a good ult on competent opponents. Your weak early/mid/exploitable weaknesses means your chances of having an early game lead are lower than the average jungler, making you less likely to have vision control against competent enemies, making it even less likely you will land your ultimate effectively.

What this all boils down to is that his effectiveness is largely in his opponents' hands as well as his own. The enemies need to fail to abuse his weaknesses. They need to not ward properly, to not counterjungle, to not out-pressure him early game, to not predict his ganks, to not predict his teamfight ultimates, to not ward dragon to prevent a solo, to not maintain vision control and to group up against a Fiddlesticks while going in blind while he's mysteriously MIA during a teamfight. The fact is, if your opponents will let you exploit Fiddlesticks, there are a LOT of other champions you could exploit a LOT better.

In conclusion, he has too few windows of opportunities, and too much counterplay in his current iteration to be very successful. He specializes at something that just isn't very effective against competent enemies and as a result, the buffs and new jungle item (Which he also cannot even use very well) will not make him a desirable jungler.

5 Comments

Those Beyond2 votes

If you can't gank pre-6 with Fiddlesticks, then you must be doing something TERRIBLY wrong.

His silence and fear alone can pressure out a lane if ganked correctly, an even kill if you do so perfectly. An trying to DUEL a Fiddlesticks who's not a potato is literally a waste of time. He can just darkwind fear you an run off laughing, or Fear you as he drains as his laner comes to join the fight.

The reason he wasn't good was simply because he didn't work well with sheen. Now that's it gone, I can bet he will resurge back into the game. An you don't have to rush Zhonya Hourglass, Normally I get that third or even fourth. Normally getting Liandry's Torment or Rylai's Crystal first for the huge damage.

Troy2426211 votes

[{quoted}](name=Those Beyond,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1GhZ4Vwt,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-01-14T17:52:17.012+0000)

If you can't gank pre-6 with Fiddlesticks, then you must be doing something TERRIBLY wrong.

His silence and fear alone can pressure out a lane if ganked correctly, an even kill if you do so perfectly. An trying to DUEL a Fiddlesticks who's not a potato is literally a waste of time. He can just darkwind fear you an run off laughing, or Fear you as he drains as his laner comes to join the fight.

The reason he wasn't good was simply because he didn't work well with sheen. Now that's it gone, I can bet he will resurge back into the game. An you don't have to rush Zhonya Hourglass, Normally I get that third or even fourth. Normally getting Liandry's Torment or Rylai's Crystal first for the huge damage.

I'm aware he can gank pre-6,....But, just like I didn't describe Fiddle in a vacuum where mobility, counterjungling and wards don't exist, I'd ask that you don't, either.

Other junglers can gank pre-6 far, FAR better than he can. Frankly, other lv. 6 junglers gank better than him post-6, too. A huge amount of his power budget is consumed by his potential power. Potentially, he can land a 5 man ult and win the game.

Other junglers, even many other post-6 junglers, can gank better than he can early game. Yes, he still certainly can and yeah, it can work. I'm just describing the probability of it.

TeemoJenkins1 votes

I played quite a bit of Fid in S5, his ganks pre-6 are great, provided your laner isn't a potato. I also played him in lane in S5 and rocked it.

Tohob1 votes

personally i'd remove the channel on his ult and move the blink from the ult to a different ability (i'd go with the fear so that you have to blink on top of someone to fear them) that'd make landing his ult much easier and faster, and would greatly improve pre-6 ganks.

if that were to happen, Dark Wind would probably have to become a completely different ability, as he'd probably be too strong if he had fast reliable early ganks, a faster and more reliable ult, AND got to keep his targeted bouncing crows of doom.

Hilary Clintbag1 votes

I jungle Fiddle sticks often, so Im glad I can contribute to this thread.

I will tell you that out of the many games 'Ive jungled Fiddlesticks this season, the HARDEST thing about jungling him is mastering the Ultimate. Positioning, such as ulting past the enemies and yet having them in-between you and your allies so they become trapped between them and the out edges of your ulti, and who to cc, are the only factors when mastering it. Its really not that difficult. A good fiddle Jungle is NOT going to Ult jump over terrain to Gank if he notices the champion(s) on the enemy team are hesitant to come nearer to his Jumping point because of wards, or if they run back due to having seen him via a ward nearby. A good fiddle sticks is paying attention to the reaction of the team when near. His Ult jumping routine is merely a patience play. Its a learned skill, and yet is not that difficult.

He is Easily countered in the Jungle, and very heavily reliable on Blue Buff, but a good Fiddle jungle KNOWS that he needs BLUE right OFF from the start so he can drain away the field before he first goes B. Should he get countered, as I have been, before first B whilst having blue buff, Ive rarely ever had issues draining away the counter jungling play along with a fear and silence.

Most of my ultimates after early game dont always involve me ult jumping over terrain either. I know better than to engage in a team fight with an enemy team that has ample opportunity to retreat. This is where positioning comes into play. Once a team fight is engaged, I run up and ult in given majority of the enemies are already busy trying to fight the near squishies/tanks. I will Only engage a team fight via Ult if My flash is up. The weaknesses you described are nothing more than learning curves when playing fiddle sticks. This applies to every champion though, So Im going to say leave him unchanged, Please.

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