How to design a good balanced champion in league of legends: Thresh.

Cräfty··10 votes·3,330 views

Hello everyone,

I just wanna take a moment and talk about one of my favorite champions in the game: Thresh and how his design should be adopted, by whoever is working at Riot Games, as a reference for good champion design, as he's been stable for more than 3 years now!

**Disclaimer: This is my opinion. As you can see, it's a very BIG opinion. If you're allergic to opinions and get butthurt and triggered fast by a different opinion than yours, then you should turn back and leave this place. This thread is not for you. Constructive criticism and new ideas are welcomed. **

With that out of the way, let's begin!

First of all, Thresh, in my opinion, is the best, most unique and balanced champion in the game, period! Let's investigate why?!

  • Overall, the champion is so satisfying to play. Every ability is so satisfying to use and the sound effects are just spot on! That sound of the hook landing on the target is so satisfying to hear and every time I throw my Q, I'm just waiting for that sound to play.

  • Passive: Thresh is not able to gain armor per level. Instead, you collect the souls of the dead around you, which in turn, gives you more armor and AP. This is a very neat mechanic since it emphasize the fact that you need to be near the fights to be able to get your souls, otherwise, no souls for you, mate! Nothing too fancy here, I just think it's cool how this has a mechanic where if you decide to be near the action and actually be useful, you're rewarded, if you're jerking off away from the action, however, you get nothing. And Thresh is all about decision making,as you will see later.

  • Q: You wind up and throw your scythe, hooking someone. Seems simple at first, right? But wait! Now what do you do?! Do you go in right when the hook land? Do you wanna wait for one pull then go in? Do you wanna wait for two pulls then go in? Or maybe you just don't wanna go in at all?! Maybe you need to hook a jungle camp and escape with your life? So many decisions to make depending on the situation you're in and you know what? I just LOVE this! In one spell, you'll have different outcomes depending on your decision making! If you land your hook, you're rewarded with multiple choices that allows you to be more flexible in various fights. And the best part is: you can actually move while an enemy is hooked! But If you take too long to decide, or you take the wrong decision, you're heavily punished! THIS, right here, is what risk vs reward is all about, my friends. Oh and if you're the enemy, don't worry, Thresh's Q is telegraphed and can easily be avoided if you see him wind up. Is that fair enough?

  • W: You have a lantern that collect souls for you, from a distance. Isn't that useful? But wait, There is more! This lantern can shield you and one other enemy (lowest HP). Isn't that cool? But wait, there is more! Your teammates can actually click on the lantern and dash towards your location, making for a very useful escape tool. But wait, there is more! You can use the lantern offensively too. Hook someone, go back, throw lantern to bring in a friend, take the hook and fly away to victory... or death, depending on how good your decisions are! But wait, isn't that too OP of a spell to have? This must be obnoxious to play against, right? Well, Enemies can actually stand on the lantern, or put a ward on top of it to block your teammates from taking the lantern. Is that fair enough for you? Moving on.

  • E: Passively, it grants you an empowered auto attack the longer you wait before attacking, which scales of the souls you collect as well (AD Thresh, anyone?). You flay enemies in any direction you want and slow them. This seems simple, right? But wait. You can use this in so many different ways: Pull in high priority targets, push back annoying enemy champions, interrupt some channeled abilities, interrupt dashes, set up your own combos,etc. It all depends, once again, on which decision you make and how do you wanna use the flay mechanic.

  • R: Probably the most disappointing thing about Thresh, tbh. You pull out a pentagon shaped cage which walls deal damage and slow enemies by a lot. You can use it to trap someone inside or just to zone out enemies . Not enough options here! 6/10! I kinda wish they rework his ult to be more thematically appropriate, because his current R doesn't fit his theme very well, imho.

So yeah, here you have it guys. As you can see, Thresh's full kit is balanced around decision making, and skill, of course. He is a champion that is not OP by any means and is ok to play against. He never feels too oppressive to the point where you think there is no counter play to him at all. His kit never feels overloaded despite all the options it offers you and all the decisions that you can make every game!

I've played hundreds, if not thousands of games with Thresh, across all my accounts, and not even once I got bored of him. You never feel like you're playing on autopilot with him. There is always, actively, something to do, decisions to take, skillshots to land properly on the right targets,etc. And what's even better is that he doesn't have a million dashes, 1k HP shields, Heals, insane tankiness or absurdly insane damage output. He's just " perfect ". And this is why Thresh, imho, is the best,most unique and balanced champion, in the whole game, and Riot should go back and relearn how to design actual good balanced champions like this.

The game, atm, is just not as fun as it used to be. Too much damage, too much mobility, too much heals, shields, CC... The game is just too overloaded man... Just relax Riot... just breath and remember Thresh... and Ekko! (I was gonna include Ekko too here but this thread is already too long. Maybe another time :p)

EDIT: I never said Thresh was perfectly balanced since day 1. Of course he had some bug fixes and some numbers tweaked here and there. But even then, he was never OP, per say.

The latest big change thresh received in a patch was in June 29th, 2016, in patch 6.13:

Dark Passage

  • REMOVED: AP ratio.
  • NEW EFFECT: Shield strength increases by 1 for each collected Damnation soul.
  • REMOVED: Thresh walking into range when targeting beyond maximum cast range.
  • NEW EFFECT: Casting beyond maximum range during Death Sentence makes the lantern land at maximum range in the target direction.
  • NEW EFFECT: Lantern remains for a short duration if Thresh slightly exceeds maximum leash range by moving towards Death Sentence Death Sentence's tethered target.

This started the famous Bunnyfufu engage, with the Q1 + flash + lantern + Q2 combo.

Before that, the biggest change he got is in patch 3.8 where they removed the flash + Q combo. Before that, in patch 3.12, they added in the 3 sec refund mechanic to his Q, if you land it.

Otherwise, the champion has been stable since patch 6.13 (and even before that) and had no other big changes that affected his playstyle. During these last 3 years, he got some minor bug fixes and got some mana cost changes and cooldown changes to go with all the new items and runes added to the game.

For 3 years now Thresh has been consistent, fun to play, far from OP, not overloaded and actually fair to play against. That's due to his abilities being a well designed overall kit with no overload of any kind, if that makes sense.

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

38 Comments

Daddy Ants3 votes

Go youtube thresh q hitbox.

see for yourself

Luther King Jr V3 votes

stop spamming this thresh isn't balanced in any way

Cräfty2 votes

thresh isn't balanced in any way

Explain yourself. Don't just throw such a statement out there and leave, lol!

What's not balanced about him and why?!

Luther King Jr V2 votes

pro play doesn't love balanced champions that should be enough hint he is tanky af for a catcher he doesnt deal damage but the role of catcher isn't damage and his cc chains never end i dont think thresh is what i'd like to call balanced

Cräfty2 votes

pro play doesn't love balanced champions that should be enough hint

Wait... what?!

So you're telling me that all these champs: Braum Corki Ezreal Gragas LeeSin Nami Olaf Poppy Rumble Skarner Syndra Thresh Varus Viktor Xayah XinZhao Zilean are OP and broken and that's why they're played in pro play, right?!

It's not like there is something called counter picks and team comps... Nah! They must be played in pro play only because they're not balanced!

Come on, bruh!

Luther King Jr V3 votes

yeah most of these seem braindead op to me ty for proving my point

Cräfty2 votes

Oh really?!

In that case, I hope all the new champions are as

braindead op

as these champs. League would be much better like that!

[zombie-brand-facepalm]

Luther King Jr V1 votes

thankful you are not on riot's balance team

SoftCounter1 votes

I may be 7 hours late, but tell me which champs you play?

Luther King Jr V1 votes

i play everything i don't randomly call op champs balanced tho

SoftCounter1 votes

Half the champions he listed aren't even b tier, braum gets countered by hookers like pyke, gragas by thresh, nami by and hooker. I've only seen nami and ez in the past 40 games I've played and they got shat on, so either something about your "statistics" are wrong, or we should be "thankful you're not on riot's balance team" [zombie-brand-facepalm]

Luther King Jr V1 votes

yes your judgement is better than pro players

SoftCounter1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Luther King Jr V,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1EjxLA60,comment-id=000200000000000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-31T13:53:07.147+0000)

yes your judgement is better than pro players

Thank you for contradicting yourself and proving a collective point, ggez

Luther King Jr V1 votes

contradict myself lool sure have fun with that idea if it makes you feel better

SoftCounter1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Luther King Jr V,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1EjxLA60,comment-id=00020000000000000000000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-31T13:56:37.202+0000)

contradict myself lool sure have fun with that idea if it makes you feel better

"yeah most of these seem braindead op to me ty for proving my point" "yes your judgement is better than pro players" A sarcastic insult about me having a better judgement than pro's, you saying that you know what the pro's think only makes your statements contradict, and saying a blatant excuse for when you have no idea how someone saw through your illogical cover up about how "champs that no one plays are busted" only proves my standpoint, ez noob [sg-ezreal]

Luther King Jr V1 votes

you are so smart wow! i was sure proven wrong

SoftCounter1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Luther King Jr V,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1EjxLA60,comment-id=0002000000000000000000010000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-31T14:09:02.884+0000)

you are so smart wow! i was sure proven wrong

You're not even trying at this point and that's no fun, where did your spunk go? Did it leave when I broke your trashy cover up? [sg-miss-fortune]

Luther King Jr V1 votes

[slayer-jinx-wink]

Exin01 votes

{quoted}

Explain yourself. Don't just throw such a statement out there and leave, lol!

What's not balanced about him and why?!

He is with lux most picked support by far, others have lower pick rate by magnitude that alone should rise a flags. We can discus if he is op or not for days but numbers show there is definitely something going for him. Maybe he isnt broken in terms of too much damage or immortal but he is quite tanky and his Q is literally death sentence and that is probably his strength, spamming Q until you hit and that means enemy death. Even without any changes his Q is now more powerful due to higher damage then years ago.

Genocide Victim2 votes

Agree, I've never thought Thresh was poorly designed or unfair even when he was a top pick. Meanwhile there are plenty of champions that can be up and still make you want to kill yourself.

King Braum2 votes

People thought Thresh was busted and overtuned when he was first released.

Cräfty1 votes

I never said Thresh was perfectly balanced since day 1. Of course he had some bug fixes and some numbers tweaked here and there. But even then, he was never OP, per say.

The latest big change thresh received in a patch was in June 29th, 2016, in patch 6.13:

Dark Passage

  • REMOVED: AP ratio.
  • NEW EFFECT: Shield strength increases by 1 for each collected Damnation soul.
  • REMOVED: Thresh walking into range when targeting beyond maximum cast range.
  • NEW EFFECT: Casting beyond maximum range during Death Sentence makes the lantern land at maximum range in the target direction.
  • NEW EFFECT: Lantern remains for a short duration if Thresh slightly exceeds maximum leash range by moving towards Death Sentence Death Sentence's tethered target.

This started the famous Bunnyfufu engage, with the Q1 + flash + lantern + Q2 combo.

The champion has been stable since then and had no other big changes that affected his playstyle. During these last 3 years, he got some minor bug fixes and got some mana cost changes and cooldown changes to go with all the new items and runes added to the game.

For 3 years now Thresh has been consistent, fun to play, far from OP, not overloaded and actually fair to play against. That's due to his abilities being a well designed overall kit with no overload of any kind, if that makes sense.

The thigh guy2 votes

I’ve always said thresh is by miles, the single best designed champion in the game.

Irelia Bot2 votes

Because Thresh didn't get several changes through his existence?

He literally legitimized Morgana as a support after years of her being seen only as a mid laner.

Cräfty1 votes

I never said Thresh was perfectly balanced since day 1. Of course he had some bug fixes and some numbers tweaked here and there. But even then, he was never OP, per say.

The latest big change thresh received in a patch was in June 29th, 2016, in patch 6.13:

Dark Passage

  • REMOVED: AP ratio.
  • NEW EFFECT: Shield strength increases by 1 for each collected Damnation soul.
  • REMOVED: Thresh walking into range when targeting beyond maximum cast range.
  • NEW EFFECT: Casting beyond maximum range during Death Sentence makes the lantern land at maximum range in the target direction.
  • NEW EFFECT: Lantern remains for a short duration if Thresh slightly exceeds maximum leash range by moving towards Death Sentence Death Sentence's tethered target.

This started the famous Bunnyfufu engage, with the Q1 + flash + lantern + Q2 combo.

Before that, the biggest change he got is in patch 3.8 where they removed the flash + Q combo. Before that, in patch 3.12, they added in the 3 sec refund mechanic to his Q, if you land it.

Otherwise, the champion has been stable since patch 6.13 (and even before that) and had no other big changes that affected his playstyle. During these last 3 years, he got some minor bug fixes and got some mana cost changes and cooldown changes to go with all the new items and runes added to the game.

For 3 years now Thresh has been consistent, fun to play, far from OP, not overloaded and actually fair to play against. That's due to his abilities being a well designed overall kit with no overload of any kind, if that makes sense.

SoftCounter2 votes

I read the title thinking this was gonna be a post bashing thresh, good to know I was wrong [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Daddy Ants1 votes

Fix his hook and flay hitboxes to be a bit fairer and he'll be perfect.

Cräfty1 votes

Hmmm... I didn't see or feel any problems with his Q and E's hitboxes. Care to explain, please?

giannishannibal1 votes

He means about any hook or grab, If you search it will find videos about Thresh/Blitz etc throwing their Q 5 degrees away from you but suddenly it turns and connects. The problem isnt Thresh/Blitz etc but champions hitbox that isnt matching with their body and as a result you see 'AAH i seem to dodge it for 1 milimeter" but then it connects.

eg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjouYhbvX0I this video is one of the few i found that demostrates what Im trying to say. But again its isnt Thresh/Blitz etc bug but champions hitbox bigger than it looks in game. (So players unfairly blame Thresh etc).

Cräfty1 votes

Ah, I see what you mean.

Well, some people don't realize that with hook-like abilities with Thresh Blitzcrank Pyke and Nautilus, not all the animation you see is the hitbox, but just the tip of it.

Let me illustrate my point with Thresh, for example.

  • His Q has a max range of 1100 units. When he throws it, you see the scythe travel the full 1100 units. But what some people don't realize is that not all the 1100 unit worth of chain + scythe have a hitbox, only the scythe part of it has. The chain that link the scythe to thresh's hand actually has no hitbox.

  • So when you throw the Q and time it very well while enemy minions are arriving to lane, for example, if the scythe part travels in front of the minion before the minion hitbox actually reaches it, what happens is that the scythe will continue traveling forward, since no other hitbox has come to contact with it yet and still has range left to travel. But since the enemy doesn't know this info, he thinks he's safe behind that minion so tries to hide behind it.

  • Then, the illusion happens: What the enemy sees is that he got hooked through the minion wave, or that the hook " curved " and hit him because they see the chain part going inside the minion wave, when in reality, it's just that the part of the hook (the scythe), that's actually the only one having a hitbox, already traveled past the minion, and him trying to hide behind it made it so his hitbox (enemy) came into contact with the scythe's hitbox, thus grabbing him.

The same thing applies to the other similar champs with a hook ability.

And thresh's Q hitbox is actually very fair, it's thin and exactly has the same thickness to it as the animation you see.

Champs like Lux and Morgana, on the other hand, have a case of bad hitboxes and need to be fixed asap! Their Q hitbox (and R hitbox for Lux) are not fair and are way bigger than the actual animation of the spell shows!

WoonStruck1 votes

Incorrect. He was poorly designed kit-wise from where LoL stood at his time of release. He was overloaded and overtuned as fuck.

He doesn't look poorly designed in today's LoL because Riot almost always overloads new kits to the extreme.


Are you even aware of how much they've removed from Thresh? And he'd still be overloaded when he was released.

Cräfty1 votes

I never said Thresh was perfectly balanced since day 1. Of course he had some bug fixes and some numbers tweaked here and there. But even then, he was never OP, per say.

The latest big change thresh received in a patch was in June 29th, 2016, in patch 6.13:

Dark Passage

  • REMOVED: AP ratio.
  • NEW EFFECT: Shield strength increases by 1 for each collected Damnation soul.
  • REMOVED: Thresh walking into range when targeting beyond maximum cast range.
  • NEW EFFECT: Casting beyond maximum range during Death Sentence makes the lantern land at maximum range in the target direction.
  • NEW EFFECT: Lantern remains for a short duration if Thresh slightly exceeds maximum leash range by moving towards Death Sentence Death Sentence's tethered target.

This started the famous Bunnyfufu engage, with the Q1 + flash + lantern + Q2 combo.

Before that, the biggest change he got is in patch 3.8 where they removed the flash + Q combo. Before that, in patch 3.12, they added in the 3 sec refund mechanic to his Q, if you land it.

Otherwise, the champion has been stable since patch 6.13 (and even before that) and had no other big changes that affected his playstyle. During these last 3 years, he got some minor bug fixes and got some mana cost changes and cooldown changes to go with all the new items and runes added to the game.

For 3 years now Thresh has been consistent, fun to play, far from OP, not overloaded and actually fair to play against. That's due to his abilities being a well designed overall kit with no overload of any kind, if that makes sense.

WoonStruck1 votes

He was OP. He was pick/ban for over a year iirc due to his Q and W alone.

What was in the game at the time could not keep up with what he provided for a team.


NOW he looks fine since everything is broken, but in the context of old league he was not at all. He's part of the slippery slope that made this game so shit now.

Cräfty1 votes

He was OP. He was pick/ban for over a year iirc due to his Q and W alone.

Being picked/banned for over a year doesn't mean that he was OP. It just means he was really unique and good at supporting overall. He was the best support when he 1st came out, I'll give you that. But was he OP because he was the best?! Hell, no!

What was in the game at the time could not keep up with what he provided for a team.

I disagree. Thresh had many counters to him in lane, and many counters to his playstyle in team fights. Heck, so many teams lost with Thresh on their side, because he was useless vs the enemy comp. Even Madlife himself lost so many times on thresh, come on man! Why do people always exaggerate?!

NOW he looks fine since everything is broken, but in the context of old league he was not at all. He's part of the slippery slope that made this game so shit now.

Don't blame Thresh for Riot's mistakes and all the problems the company caused to the game. That's not fair! You think the game was all rainbows before Thresh?! Of course not. The game was sh-t before Thresh was released, and it is still sh*t after Thresh came out.

[zombie-brand-mindblown]

xelaker1 votes

Every kit doesn't need to be overloaded with 15 different ways to use it with 8 paragraphs of text... An ult can just put up a slowing wall man.

Cräfty1 votes

You missed the point of this thread, my friend!

JackMcCarry1 votes

Thresh was one of the OG overloaded champions, and many people complained and complain about him whenever he's meta because he's a "do it all" kinda support.

Not saying your opinion is wrong, just showing how tricky it is to release a champion people will not call out.

Cräfty1 votes

...how tricky it is to release a champion people will not call out.

I agree. People will always complain about something. They will deny any change or new unique champions, at first. But they'll come around it!

But what I'm trying to say in this thread is that, if you take the current Thresh, who's been stable for over 3 years now, and make it the baseline for champion design (since now, Riot should know what a balanced champion should look like), I think Riot will actually release new champions who will be better designed and more prone to be balanced later on (because no champion is balanced at release) which makes things easier for the players and even for Riot itself!

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