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Conceptually: Why does Tryndamere's Spinning Slash have an AP ratio?

Illabethe··8 votes·6,602 views

Anyone notice that there's a huge influx of AP Tryndamere ?

It couldn't just be Q's heal. That would be ineffective....

Nah..... it's Spinning Slash..... with a 100% AP ratio but only a 130% BONUS AD ratio.

But what happened recently? Oh Right. They cut spinning Slash's Cooldown 2 seconds.

In other words, Tryndamere's kit actually scales harder to AP than AD, because:

AP has all the move speed items. AP has an abundance of CDR items, shortening his cooldowns earlier. Ap has more raw stats to shove into his damage. Spinning Slash resets with Auto attacks...

Kind of sad when a Melee champions which more or less hasn't changed since Season 1..... that SHOULD be building AD..... is using AP items better than most mages can.

I just watched a rerun of this game

https://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2843457069/243999882?tab=overview

Tryndamere literally was crossing the entire map in about 13 seconds flat........ because that's how spammy his E was, and how much move speed he was pushing.

His Autos were weak to jungle mobs until late game, but his Spin would 1 shot them.

(I'm not debating the actual match; they sucked balls. just illustrating the point).

Just some thoughts. Why does Spinning Slash have AP ratios in a game where they seem to want to specialize champs (I still miss AD Evelynn)?

34 Comments

OurLestrade13 votes

Have you ever seen someone fly forward by spinning? That sounds pretty magical to me.

Meep Man2 votes

He embraces his inner helicopter.

LordGeovanni1 votes

i mean if it wasnt magical it would be garen spin

ModWulf Helhammer6 votes

It’s a remnant from when “AP” increased the damage from all abilities”. There wasn’t such a thing as AD or AP ratios, just AD increased auto attack damage, and AP increased the effects of your QWER buttons.

DragonShea1 votes

[{quoted}](name= Król Wilk Sam,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=19nrL0id,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-08-11T18:26:11.092+0000)

It’s a remnant from when “AP” increased the damage from all abilities”. There wasn’t such a thing as AD or AP ratios, just AD increased auto attack damage, and AP increased the effects of your QWER buttons.

What he said. And Trynda needs to lost ALL AD radio.

Edit. I meant AP, NOT AD. MB

GripaAviara3 votes

Why?

DragonShea1 votes

{quoted}

Why?

Sorry I meant AP, not AD. Typo.

Death by Glamour1 votes

I wouldn't say that, not all champs had ap ratios on abilities.

generally I think the AP ratios on AD champs were used to limit the power on those champs, pre rework MF for example had a terrible late game because 3/4 of her abilites scaled solely with AP

aaaustindestroy11 votes

It's also partially from when Riot was all like "Varied options! AD AND AP ratios! 'Gee, Bill, your mom let you have TWO builds to choose from?"

Ifneth1 votes

[{quoted}](name= Król Wilk Sam,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=19nrL0id,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-08-11T18:26:11.092+0000)

It’s a remnant from when “AP” increased the damage from all abilities”. There wasn’t such a thing as AD or AP ratios, just AD increased auto attack damage, and AP increased the effects of your QWER buttons.

Wow. That’s... so old. O_O

YoRHa 2B6 votes

Every time... guys... Tryndamere need to crit to reduce cooldown on E

SugeMinPikk1 votes

45% CDR + 35% crit means he needs 4+ items to match the cooldown with an AD build

Illabethe1 votes

Pretty much. 35% crit rate is plenty when you already have a low cooldown to begin with. Level 5 Spinning Slash on 45% CDR is what? 3.85 seconds? 2 Crits per fight automatically resets that. 1 is enough to get it spammable. On AP he's on URF status. On AD he's "Manageable" until late game.

GripaAviara3 votes

To diversify the champion play possibilities. That was the philosophy back in the day and it was a healthy and fun one. The problem is the new balance team forgot about it and they can't or won't balance champions based on all build paths, be them niched

The Ecdysiast2 votes

Trinity Force previously gave some AP, and was intended as a buy for pretty much everyone. That's the only reason.

AnAggravatedPimp1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Uber Deer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=19nrL0id,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-08-11T21:05:58.266+0000)

Trinity Force previously gave some AP, and was intended as a buy for pretty much everyone. That's the only reason.

I swear that was just Phreak memeing. That guy is amazing

Provengreil1 votes

But it's totally true. In modern days though, I think there's only 2 champs left (kayle and jax) who legitimately wanted every stat on the thing, and only a few more who actually used every piece.

GripaAviara2 votes

The problem with trynda is not his AP build, is his freaking ultimate, which renders the guy totally unhealthy and impossible to proper balance

Yet he hasn't got any rework, but i see that a fine champ like Ez gets one

Illabethe1 votes

Tbh anyone whose been around a long time should know how to deal with his ult.... Play cat and mouse. Be close enough to engage him after it's over, but face him so he can't maximize his slow, and then just focus on ccing him until it runs out.

I can 1v1 a Tryn easily on champs who can do that. Problem is, once he's AP built, there is no escape, CC is far less effective, and he's spam lord. 1 Friggin mistake = certain death.

GripaAviara1 votes

Play cat and mouse.

Yes and?

AP trynda's power is that he has with the heals like 7 - 10 seconds of invulnerability and can proc item 3100 for 5 times. That's a lot of cat and mouse in the current state of the game when TF last on average 3-5 sec. On top of that he gets MS which makes the cat and mouse game harder to play for opponent.

Do you see where the problem actually lies? I doesn't really matter the AP on his Slash. I mean it does, it helps him, but that's not the core of the AP build and why he is so threating

Illabethe1 votes

You would have the same exact problem on AD builds if his ult was the problem.

You're kind of shooting your own argument in the foot.

AP spin hits harder, has more access to CDR, and more access to move speed items.

About the only Move speed item AD Tryn gets is item 3087 , and the sheen procs hit for less.

GripaAviara1 votes

No, because AD builds don't offer you enough heal on demand (ex lifesteal where you need constant contact)

Also have you ever played AD damage tryndamere?

item 3142 item 3078 item 3147

You deal way more damage than AP build, but you lose 1-2 sec of sustain which are basically's what AP build does better. The moment you add item 3812 it changes everything in that build. But then again, it takes way more time and missed the point like AP build

Illabethe1 votes

That's not even a common Tryn build lol.

item 3031 item 3087 item 3153 is a common Tryn build.

It's not like his rage meter takes more than 4 secs killing minions to fully charge and heal off of, and you can get life steal runes.... and life steal items are core on him.

GripaAviara1 votes

It's not like his rage meter takes more than 4 secs killing minions to fully charge

Indeed, but you need contact, and that's hard to maintain as trynda in a TF

VoraciousX2 votes

You realize Trynd had no movement speed items in his build right? Except for Lich Bane anyways, and it's not THAT amazing. We could also argue the same about Katarina. She uses daggers, but she's more AP than AD(and far worse off for it too because no good spellshield item)

{quoted}

With her you can at least claim some sort of magic ability behind her. Shunpo = phasing. Guided Bouncing Knives would either have to be on a string or guided by a Ki. Throwing and Bringing back in thousands of knives (R) when she only carries like 4...... would also suggest ability.

Tryn...... he spins a Sword. He auto attacks. He Shouts. The only part of his kit that's "supernatural" at all is his Q heal, and his R (which could just be Adrenaline keeping him moving for a bit.....)

You realize her Shunpo is a full AD ratio right? It also deals physical damage. Her ultimate doesn't bring her daggers back into her. She just spins in a circle throwing knives out. And if you're going to argue about her full physical damage full AD scaling Shunpo being magic, you should think about Talon, because he used to have the exact same ability, except his also silenced.

Just 4 Memes1 votes

AP Trynd is an abomination [sg-janna]

CasterGilgamesh2 votes

Tryndamere himself is an abomination....a hot one but still god awful

SugeMinPikk1 votes

He's an old champ, from the times of random AP ratios

Sire Hippington1 votes

Because back in the daz, AP really ment Abillity Power and increased the power of all abillities. Back when i started, the only abillities that didn't scale off AP but instead of AD that i can think off were Ashe's W and Corkis E, even Tryns E scaled purely with AP till the rework, and the AP-scaleing skills also did all magic damage back then. The concept of an AD caster first was introduced with pant, and since people weren't used to it he often got played with the typical AS-focused built you'd see on Yi or Tryn aswell...

To be honest, i kinda miss that, it caused ad and ap to be more different allowing offbuilts to have meaningfull impact on you're playstyl and you could go for hybrid builts if you wanted mixed damage.

that aside

AP has all the move speed items.

don't think so... item 3046 item 3087 item 3095 item 3071 item 3078 item 3142

AP has an abundance of CDR items, shortening his cooldowns earlier.

Mostly depends on his builtpath item 3142 item 3078 item 3071 item 3156 item 3508 item 3812 item 3147 plenty cdr options if he wants it

Ap has more raw stats to shove into his damage.

Nope, just Nope, his damage with ad/crit builts is way beyond his AP builts.

Spinning Slash resets with Auto attacks...

not entierly right, it resets with crits, which means a crit tryn will reset his E alot faster than an AP tryn IF allowed to AA than an AP tryn

The main reason for AP tryn beeing strong is that he needs not more than E+1AA to do most of his damage, he clears waves in one E, he has huge tower dps, and most of all his insane sustain and mobillity make it near impossible to take down, especially with his Ult buying the time he needs against CC+burst combos. This allows him to consistently preassure sidelanes with next to no risk. Another reason is that guinsoo's+nashor add 0.25ap to every AA so he still has more dps than one should expect from an AP built on him. And despite that, crit tryn still performce better https://euw.op.gg/champion/tryndamere/statistics/top all his non AP builts have higher winrates than his AP built...

Wyrmblade1 votes

It's an ability.

jocomotion1 votes

I mean, why does Katarina sharp knives do magic damage and scale better off AP?

The world will never know....

Illabethe1 votes

With her you can at least claim some sort of magic ability behind her. Shunpo = phasing. Guided Bouncing Knives would either have to be on a string or guided by a Ki. Throwing and Bringing back in thousands of knives (R) when she only carries like 4...... would also suggest ability.

Tryn...... he spins a Sword. He auto attacks. He Shouts. The only part of his kit that's "supernatural" at all is his Q heal, and his R (which could just be Adrenaline keeping him moving for a bit.....)

Akali is SO HOT1 votes

Back in the early days of League it was basically AD increases auto attack damage and AP increases ability damage. That's why you see AP Ratios slapped onto so many random abilities like Trynd's E or Sivir's Q.

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