Why would I ever start red side as a jungler now?

Eedat·Nov 22, 2016·30 votes·4,451 views

Why would I ever choose to start on the red side of the jungle as a jungler? Raptor and Krug camps are sooooooooo much more difficult than the blue side camps. Especially at level 1&2. Doesn't even matter if you have AoE or not because blue side is still noticeably easier for both. Krugs and raptors straight up maul you.

So now I'm stuck in a predicament where if I'm blue team I have to either:

A) start red buff anyway for the better leash from bot lane then waste time running to the other side of the map. Or get my entire health bar chunked by trying to clear a red side camp at level 2

B) start blue buff and get a weak leash from top. Save time because I can clear my blue side first while I get my second smite charge up to attempt to maybe clear the raptor camp that's not worth much now anyway.

So why is it that my early performance is heavily favored if Im on one side over the other? Why did you make one side of the jungle much, MUCH more difficult to clear over the other?

67 Comments

RalanrNov 22, 201611 votes

If you have good AoE early, raptors aren't a problem.

So Sion gives no fucks.

Glory ln DeathNov 22, 20169 votes

Gotta love all that extra hp in red buff jungle!

SpoofghoulNov 23, 20162 votes

Yep even helped my lee by stunning red and later stunning the raptors from over the wall

Was playing mid :S

Lee had a very easy time clearing red side jungle lol

Sire HippingtonNov 22, 20165 votes

well, there is the option of going for a level 2 gank mid right after red and then evt take scuttler or the opponents big raptor.

But yea, Raptors need to get their early damage reduced, any champ that can't kill them fast gets decimated by those little fuckers. Switching Krugs with gromp or Wolfs with Raptors might work aswell.

flibitydooNov 23, 20164 votes

ahhh this brings back the memories of season 3

Khazix "yo can I get a smiteless hardleash at red"

30 seconds later Khazix FIRST BLOOD Amumu

GULAG 4 UNov 23, 20161 votes

Amumu Rito ples nerf khasex

ph1234kNov 22, 20164 votes

I have personally not had issue starting red side, though I tend to skip raptors most of the time early game. Kite the krugs and you will take less damage.

THE D1CNov 22, 20162 votes

Aye, skip Raptors does the trick, krugs is easy with most champs and is worth the time invest.

EedatNov 22, 20162 votes

That still doesn't fix the issue that doing a level 2 camp on red side makes you take much more damage than blue side which means you are have to skip one of the two normal camps. That means you are still losing time and flexibility with your clear and subsequently your gank pathing. Also makes your clear route extremely predictable which is a problem if your playing against a champ that can counter jungle you early. He's going know where you are and when and that you're going to be very low

Jon1174Nov 22, 20164 votes

Skarner <---- has no trouble with red side jungle

SarcasticShepardNov 23, 20164 votes

Because I'm Sion and love me some HP?

MagikarpIsBossNov 22, 20163 votes

They really just need to make Raptors have their early game damage reduced quite a bit. I once tried to do them 2nd not realizing that I would take so much damage, and within a few seconds i was nearly dead. It is actually insane how much they chunk you for.

EedatNov 22, 20161 votes

If you don't have AoE then you're boned. Try clearing the little chickens first. Helps quite a bit

MagikarpIsBossNov 23, 20161 votes

I know that cleaing the little chickens helps. But either way, doing them on your 2nd-3rd clear is just too much for a lot of champions compared to other camps.

jaymc1130Nov 23, 20163 votes

There are no junglers who require a leash, so the leash aspect you outline as a concern is a non factor. If you don't know how to do a leashless start at any camp and claim two whole camps without a leash of any sort you need to consider that you do not understand how to jungle very well.

There are not a ton of players who actually visit the boards, so this information I am about to divulge is actually not that common throughout the community but it I am about to share my greatest secret to being a successful jungler in league of legends. I don't kid, I am not exaggerating, if you follow the advice I give you here you will see a DRAMATIC increase in your win rate from this particular role.

Here it goes. You guys all know this item exists right, item 2032 ?

It's the single most op change ever made to jungling. It completely redefined the champions capable of being successful in the role. Literally EVERY champ in the game can now jungle successfully because this item exists. It doesn't matter who you want to use as an example, I can do what I am about to explain to you folks with Soraka with no runes because this item exists.

Here's the run down: When you open a game as a jungler in solo q always, always, ALWAYS, open in the opposing teams top side buff. Invade with your mid and top for safety to make sure you don't walk into an ambush. Have your bot lane watch your bottom half jungle. 99 times out of 100, even in diamond level play where I STILL do this every single time, the opposing team jungler will be starting on the bottom half of their own jungle. Starting at his top side buff presents you with an opportunity to open each game in a consistent fashion, using the same pattern, to acquire and early lead for your team that tends to snowball itself.

Firstly, you are starting on the opposing team buff, so you will deny the enemy jungler 2 camps on the top half side of his jungle that will deprive him of experience. You can do this with no leash, a fast leash, or a full leash from the top laner, but preferably no leash so that you can set up point number 2. Point number 2 is that doing this with NO leash at all gives the enemy team ZERO information on where you started as the jungler yourself. This means they have to anticipate that you could have started ANYWHERE since they didn't see you get a leash from the bot lane or top lane. This confuses the enemy team and will afford you an opportunity before the 3:30 mark in the game. After you complete the buff and the small camp in the enemy junglers top side half, back immediately. Buy a hunters pot. By the time you have done this it is usually about 2:30 seconds into the match. Most enemy junglers will be JUST completing the first half clear on the bottom half of their jungle, invading into your bottom half jungle, or moving to the top half of their own jungle. This is vitally important. It means you are now the person dictating the pace of play and the opposing jungler has lost the initiative as no matter what decision he makes next it will be an ineffective decision.

Why? Here's why. You KNOW what he is up to. He has only the three aforementioned options as to where he can be and what he can be doing. This is why he has lost the initiative, as the opposing team, since they didn't see your start, have NO idea what you are doing or where. As you purchase your hunters pot head to your own top half jungle and secure your second buff, this should be completed by the 3:10 mark in the game, you will have full hp when you complete it and a load of extra potions as well (the enemy jungler will have no pots of any kind remaining unless he TOO does what I am telling you folks to do). On you way TO that buff you need to make certain that your bot lane is aware of the possibility of the opposing jungler being in your bottom half jungle uncontested and make certain they put up the wards they need to avoid being early ganked if did he choose to wander over and invade. This will make certain that even if he has invaded and you are trading the top half of his jungle for the bottom half of your jungle he cannot get a strategic advantage by also being able to gank that lane when you are not capable of responding to the gank yourself. You also need to notify the mid laner that he could be in danger and needs his ward in the bottom river bush to avoid being early ganked. If you do this you have completely invalidated the opposing junglers actions for the first 5 minutes of the match or more as he has nothing he can do except power farm that half of the map. If the jungler has opted to move to his top side jungle then you have an even greater advantage. Once you complete the taking of your second buff at 3:00-3:10 you know the enemy jungler, if he isn't in your jungle, is finding out that you too most of the top half of his jungle so he has nothing to farm except a gromp. This forces the enemy jungler to make one of two choices, take the gromp, or immediately go for a gank in top lane at 3:30 with only one buff instead of two. After you have completed your second buff you, too, have a pair of choices now. You can gank for mid lane, or top lane, with the strategic and tactical advantage as you will have superior health and buffs should the opposing jungler happen to mirror your move. 9 times out of 10 the best bet here is to gank top lane at 3:30 into the game. This is usually the easiest enemy laner to kill and the most impactful kill you can make on the map at this point in the game as top lane is a long lane and the nature of top lane is extremely snowbally with the first kill often deciding who wins or loses in that lane. If you are following this step by step process I am laying out then the vast majority of times you will be arriving in top lane, at 3:30, about 15 seconds ahead of pace of the enemy jungler (unless they have just ridiculous clear speed) and you will be able to secure first blood an overwhelming majority of games. Afterward you have the option to chain gank into mid lane and then into bot lane, or farm your own jungle on your way to mid for a gank, then farm the bottom half of the jungle on your way to a bot lane gank.

If done properly this style of open will result, consistently, in the same set of circumstances: 1) the enemy jungler is now behind in experience and income, making him less effective. 2) you have acquired first blood gold for the team and secured a lead already in one lane which you will likely never have to return to for the remainder of the game allowing you to focus your ENTIRE efforts on only one half of the map, allowing you to better control the portion of the map with the greatest concentration of objectives. 3) You have secured a 3 buff start for your team. You can give an early blue to your mid laner if you choose, or you can take it to hit level 6 about a full minute before the opposing jungler will be able to hit level 6. 4) you have dictated the pace of play that the enemy jungler must abide by since he is behind, he has only limited options and all of these are now responses to YOUR actions as opposed to proactive actions on his part. An enemy that you force to react to your moves is an opponent that is on the back foot and can easily be taken advantage of. 5) This style of open protects your solo laners early in the game, the most vulnerable lanes, because you will always be in position to quickly react to and assist your solo laners based on how the lane matchups are going. 6) This style protects bot lane significantly better than any other possibiility in the later portions of lane phase (post 5 or 6 minutes) and throughout the mid game because you have set up a circumstance where you only have to pay attention to half of the map since you already acquired a huge lead for the part of the map you are not around as much. This makes it easy to put your bot lane in a position to be super effective in the mid game and late game while simultaneously offering an extreme level of control over drakes and when they can be taken.

No joke, if you start like this every match (and yes, sometimes you and your invade crew will get spotted out and you'll have to retreat for a different start, but most of the time you will be able to manage this open) you will quickly find your win percentage skyrockets because this is the most fundamentally sound opening for a jungler and has been for more than 3 seasons. The ability to rapidly and dramatically acquire significant advantages for your team that lead to a snowball in the first 4 minutes of a match is the most consistent chance for success game in and game out.

In other words, if you ever started bot side, with a leash, ever, then you were doing it wrong anyways. If you open each game the way I describe you put yourself in the driver seat before a single player has killed a single minion and never have to relinquish the wheel. You will be able to dictate the pace of almost every single match you every play from the role and win at a prodigious rate because this is the most fundamentally sound opening for junglers that has ever existed. 60% win rates? Sure, ez pz. 70%? Oh yeah, very doable. 80% win rates? Yeah, if you are extremely good at organizing your teammates and communicating strategy win rates in excess of 80% are very possible because of the consistency of this starting pattern that results, in excess of 90% of the time, in first blood for your team, an enemy jungler who is behind, a three buff start for your team, and complete control of the map.

SckullzzNov 23, 20161 votes

{quoted}

There are no junglers who require a leash, so the leash aspect you outline as a concern is a non factor. If you don't know how to do a leashless start at any camp and claim two whole camps without a leash of any sort you need to consider that you do not understand how to jungle very well.

There are not a ton of players who actually visit the boards, so this information I am about to divulge is actually not that common throughout the community but it I am about to share my greatest secret to being a successful jungler in league of legends. I don't kid, I am not exaggerating, if you follow the advice I give you here you will see a DRAMATIC increase in your win rate from this particular role.

Here it goes. You guys all know this item exists right, ?

It's the single most op change ever made to jungling. It completely redefined the champions capable of being successful in the role. Literally EVERY champ in the game can now jungle successfully because this item exists. It doesn't matter who you want to use as an example, I can do what I am about to explain to you folks with Soraka with no runes because this item exists.

Here's the run down: When you open a game as a jungler in solo q always, always, ALWAYS, open in the opposing teams top side buff. Invade with your mid and top for safety to make sure you don't walk into an ambush. Have your bot lane watch your bottom half jungle. 99 times out of 100, even in diamond level play where I STILL do this every single time, the opposing team jungler will be starting on the bottom half of their own jungle. Starting at his top side buff presents you with an opportunity to open each game in a consistent fashion, using the same pattern, to acquire and early lead for your team that tends to snowball itself.

Firstly, you are starting on the opposing team buff, so you will deny the enemy jungler 2 camps on the top half side of his jungle that will deprive him of experience. You can do this with no leash, a fast leash, or a full leash from the top laner, but preferably no leash so that you can set up point number 2. Point number 2 is that doing this with NO leash at all gives the enemy team ZERO information on where you started as the jungler yourself. This means they have to anticipate that you could have started ANYWHERE since they didn't see you get a leash from the bot lane or top lane. This confuses the enemy team and will afford you an opportunity before the 3:30 mark in the game. After you complete the buff and the small camp in the enemy junglers top side half, back immediately. Buy a hunters pot. By the time you have done this it is usually about 2:30 seconds into the match. Most enemy junglers will be JUST completing the first half clear on the bottom half of their jungle, invading into your bottom half jungle, or moving to the top half of their own jungle. This is vitally important. It means you are now the person dictating the pace of play and the opposing jungler has lost the initiative as no matter what decision he makes next it will be an ineffective decision.

Why? Here's why. You KNOW what he is up to. He has only the three aforementioned options as to where he can be and what he can be doing. This is why he has lost the initiative, as the opposing team, since they didn't see your start, have NO idea what you are doing or where. As you purchase your hunters pot head to your own top half jungle and secure your second buff, this should be completed by the 3:10 mark in the game, you will have full hp when you complete it and a load of extra potions as well (the enemy jungler will have no pots of any kind remaining unless he TOO does what I am telling you folks to do). On you way TO that buff you need to make certain that your bot lane is aware of the possibility of the opposing jungler being in your bottom half jungle uncontested and make certain they put up the wards they need to avoid being early ganked if did he choose to wander over and invade. This will make certain that even if he has invaded and you are trading the top half of his jungle for the bottom half of your jungle he cannot get a strategic advantage by also being able to gank that lane when you are not capable of responding to the gank yourself. You also need to notify the mid laner that he could be in danger and needs his ward in the bottom river bush to avoid being early ganked. If you do this you have completely invalidated the opposing junglers actions for the first 5 minutes of the match or more as he has nothing he can do except power farm that half of the map. If the jungler has opted to move to his top side jungle then you have an even greater advantage. Once you complete the taking of your second buff at 3:00-3:10 you know the enemy jungler, if he isn't in your jungle, is finding out that you too most of the top half of his jungle so he has nothing to farm except a gromp. This forces the enemy jungler to make one of two choices, take the gromp, or immediately go for a gank in top lane at 3:30 with only one buff instead of two. After you have completed your second buff you, too, have a pair of choices now. You can gank for mid lane, or top lane, with the strategic and tactical advantage as you will have superior health and buffs should the opposing jungler happen to mirror your move. 9 times out of 10 the best bet here is to gank top lane at 3:30 into the game. This is usually the easiest enemy laner to kill and the most impactful kill you can make on the map at this point in the game as top lane is a long lane and the nature of top lane is extremely snowbally with the first kill often deciding who wins or loses in that lane. If you are following this step by step process I am laying out then the vast majority of times you will be arriving in top lane, at 3:30, about 15 seconds ahead of pace of the enemy jungler (unless they have just ridiculous clear speed) and you will be able to secure first blood an overwhelming majority of games. Afterward you have the option to chain gank into mid lane and then into bot lane, or farm your own jungle on your way to mid for a gank, then farm the bottom half of the jungle on your way to a bot lane gank.

If done properly this style of open will result, consistently, in the same set of circumstances: 1) the enemy jungler is now behind in experience and income, making him less effective. 2) you have acquired first blood gold for the team and secured a lead already in one lane which you will likely never have to return to for the remainder of the game allowing you to focus your ENTIRE efforts on only one half of the map, allowing you to better control the portion of the map with the greatest concentration of objectives. 3) You have secured a 3 buff start for your team. You can give an early blue to your mid laner if you choose, or you can take it to hit level 6 about a full minute before the opposing jungler will be able to hit level 6. 4) you have dictated the pace of play that the enemy jungler must abide by since he is behind, he has only limited options and all of these are now responses to YOUR actions as opposed to proactive actions on his part. An enemy that you force to react to your moves is an opponent that is on the back foot and can easily be taken advantage of. 5) This style of open protects your solo laners early in the game, the most vulnerable lanes, because you will always be in position to quickly react to and assist your solo laners based on how the lane matchups are going. 6) This style protects bot lane significantly better than any other possibiility in the later portions of lane phase (post 5 or 6 minutes) and throughout the mid game because you have set up a circumstance where you only have to pay attention to half of the map since you already acquired a huge lead for the part of the map you are not around as much. This makes it easy to put your bot lane in a position to be super effective in the mid game and late game while simultaneously offering an extreme level of control over drakes and when they can be taken.

No joke, if you start like this every match (and yes, sometimes you and your invade crew will get spotted out and you'll have to retreat for a different start, but most of the time you will be able to manage this open) you will quickly find your win percentage skyrockets because this is the most fundamentally sound opening for a jungler and has been for more than 3 seasons. The ability to rapidly and dramatically acquire significant advantages for your team that lead to a snowball in the first 4 minutes of a match is the most consistent chance for success game in and game out.

In other words, if you ever started bot side, with a leash, ever, then you were doing it wrong anyways. If you open each game the way I describe you put yourself in the driver seat before a single player has killed a single minion and never have to relinquish the wheel. You will be able to dictate the pace of almost every single match you every play from the role and win at a prodigious rate because this is the most fundamentally sound opening for junglers that has ever existed. 60% win rates? Sure, ez pz. 70%? Oh yeah, very doable. 80% win rates? Yeah, if you are extremely good at organizing your teammates and communicating strategy win rates in excess of 80% are very possible because of the consistency of this starting pattern that results, in excess of 90% of the time, in first blood for your team, an enemy jungler who is behind, a three buff start for your team, and complete control of the map.

I never thought of it that way. I will try this and let you know how it goes.

SckullzzNov 23, 20161 votes

{quoted}

There are no junglers who require a leash, so the leash aspect you outline as a concern is a non factor. If you don't know how to do a leashless start at any camp and claim two whole camps without a leash of any sort you need to consider that you do not understand how to jungle very well.

There are not a ton of players who actually visit the boards, so this information I am about to divulge is actually not that common throughout the community but it I am about to share my greatest secret to being a successful jungler in league of legends. I don't kid, I am not exaggerating, if you follow the advice I give you here you will see a DRAMATIC increase in your win rate from this particular role.

Here it goes. You guys all know this item exists right, ?

It's the single most op change ever made to jungling. It completely redefined the champions capable of being successful in the role. Literally EVERY champ in the game can now jungle successfully because this item exists. It doesn't matter who you want to use as an example, I can do what I am about to explain to you folks with Soraka with no runes because this item exists.

Here's the run down: When you open a game as a jungler in solo q always, always, ALWAYS, open in the opposing teams top side buff. Invade with your mid and top for safety to make sure you don't walk into an ambush. Have your bot lane watch your bottom half jungle. 99 times out of 100, even in diamond level play where I STILL do this every single time, the opposing team jungler will be starting on the bottom half of their own jungle. Starting at his top side buff presents you with an opportunity to open each game in a consistent fashion, using the same pattern, to acquire and early lead for your team that tends to snowball itself.

Firstly, you are starting on the opposing team buff, so you will deny the enemy jungler 2 camps on the top half side of his jungle that will deprive him of experience. You can do this with no leash, a fast leash, or a full leash from the top laner, but preferably no leash so that you can set up point number 2. Point number 2 is that doing this with NO leash at all gives the enemy team ZERO information on where you started as the jungler yourself. This means they have to anticipate that you could have started ANYWHERE since they didn't see you get a leash from the bot lane or top lane. This confuses the enemy team and will afford you an opportunity before the 3:30 mark in the game. After you complete the buff and the small camp in the enemy junglers top side half, back immediately. Buy a hunters pot. By the time you have done this it is usually about 2:30 seconds into the match. Most enemy junglers will be JUST completing the first half clear on the bottom half of their jungle, invading into your bottom half jungle, or moving to the top half of their own jungle. This is vitally important. It means you are now the person dictating the pace of play and the opposing jungler has lost the initiative as no matter what decision he makes next it will be an ineffective decision.

Why? Here's why. You KNOW what he is up to. He has only the three aforementioned options as to where he can be and what he can be doing. This is why he has lost the initiative, as the opposing team, since they didn't see your start, have NO idea what you are doing or where. As you purchase your hunters pot head to your own top half jungle and secure your second buff, this should be completed by the 3:10 mark in the game, you will have full hp when you complete it and a load of extra potions as well (the enemy jungler will have no pots of any kind remaining unless he TOO does what I am telling you folks to do). On you way TO that buff you need to make certain that your bot lane is aware of the possibility of the opposing jungler being in your bottom half jungle uncontested and make certain they put up the wards they need to avoid being early ganked if did he choose to wander over and invade. This will make certain that even if he has invaded and you are trading the top half of his jungle for the bottom half of your jungle he cannot get a strategic advantage by also being able to gank that lane when you are not capable of responding to the gank yourself. You also need to notify the mid laner that he could be in danger and needs his ward in the bottom river bush to avoid being early ganked. If you do this you have completely invalidated the opposing junglers actions for the first 5 minutes of the match or more as he has nothing he can do except power farm that half of the map. If the jungler has opted to move to his top side jungle then you have an even greater advantage. Once you complete the taking of your second buff at 3:00-3:10 you know the enemy jungler, if he isn't in your jungle, is finding out that you too most of the top half of his jungle so he has nothing to farm except a gromp. This forces the enemy jungler to make one of two choices, take the gromp, or immediately go for a gank in top lane at 3:30 with only one buff instead of two. After you have completed your second buff you, too, have a pair of choices now. You can gank for mid lane, or top lane, with the strategic and tactical advantage as you will have superior health and buffs should the opposing jungler happen to mirror your move. 9 times out of 10 the best bet here is to gank top lane at 3:30 into the game. This is usually the easiest enemy laner to kill and the most impactful kill you can make on the map at this point in the game as top lane is a long lane and the nature of top lane is extremely snowbally with the first kill often deciding who wins or loses in that lane. If you are following this step by step process I am laying out then the vast majority of times you will be arriving in top lane, at 3:30, about 15 seconds ahead of pace of the enemy jungler (unless they have just ridiculous clear speed) and you will be able to secure first blood an overwhelming majority of games. Afterward you have the option to chain gank into mid lane and then into bot lane, or farm your own jungle on your way to mid for a gank, then farm the bottom half of the jungle on your way to a bot lane gank.

If done properly this style of open will result, consistently, in the same set of circumstances: 1) the enemy jungler is now behind in experience and income, making him less effective. 2) you have acquired first blood gold for the team and secured a lead already in one lane which you will likely never have to return to for the remainder of the game allowing you to focus your ENTIRE efforts on only one half of the map, allowing you to better control the portion of the map with the greatest concentration of objectives. 3) You have secured a 3 buff start for your team. You can give an early blue to your mid laner if you choose, or you can take it to hit level 6 about a full minute before the opposing jungler will be able to hit level 6. 4) you have dictated the pace of play that the enemy jungler must abide by since he is behind, he has only limited options and all of these are now responses to YOUR actions as opposed to proactive actions on his part. An enemy that you force to react to your moves is an opponent that is on the back foot and can easily be taken advantage of. 5) This style of open protects your solo laners early in the game, the most vulnerable lanes, because you will always be in position to quickly react to and assist your solo laners based on how the lane matchups are going. 6) This style protects bot lane significantly better than any other possibiility in the later portions of lane phase (post 5 or 6 minutes) and throughout the mid game because you have set up a circumstance where you only have to pay attention to half of the map since you already acquired a huge lead for the part of the map you are not around as much. This makes it easy to put your bot lane in a position to be super effective in the mid game and late game while simultaneously offering an extreme level of control over drakes and when they can be taken.

No joke, if you start like this every match (and yes, sometimes you and your invade crew will get spotted out and you'll have to retreat for a different start, but most of the time you will be able to manage this open) you will quickly find your win percentage skyrockets because this is the most fundamentally sound opening for a jungler and has been for more than 3 seasons. The ability to rapidly and dramatically acquire significant advantages for your team that lead to a snowball in the first 4 minutes of a match is the most consistent chance for success game in and game out.

In other words, if you ever started bot side, with a leash, ever, then you were doing it wrong anyways. If you open each game the way I describe you put yourself in the driver seat before a single player has killed a single minion and never have to relinquish the wheel. You will be able to dictate the pace of almost every single match you every play from the role and win at a prodigious rate because this is the most fundamentally sound opening for junglers that has ever existed. 60% win rates? Sure, ez pz. 70%? Oh yeah, very doable. 80% win rates? Yeah, if you are extremely good at organizing your teammates and communicating strategy win rates in excess of 80% are very possible because of the consistency of this starting pattern that results, in excess of 90% of the time, in first blood for your team, an enemy jungler who is behind, a three buff start for your team, and complete control of the map.

OMG! This is so great! My team fell off late game, but I made their jungler almost completely useless! ty for the info!

jaymc1130Nov 23, 20161 votes

{quoted}

OMG! This is so great! My team fell off late game, but I made their jungler almost completely useless! ty for the info!

Happy to help. You can't always win, but using this method you can pretty much ALWAYS have an impactful early game and with careful timing and decision making you can consistently learn to transition this advantage into mid and late game leads that seal a win more often than not. The key element to this opening is how you maintain control of the objectives on the bottom half of the map. You've turned the game into a bottom half contest so control of the drake pit and taking bot lane tower are extremely high on the list of priorities.

With good objective control you can slowly strangle opposing teams even in games where you're team is playing roughly even by slowly stacking up the buffs and controlling the pace at which towers come down to keep ever so slightly ahead until you reach a tipping point and your team can just outright win a 5v5 fight. When this time comes go ahead and force the baron play. Make sure you follow proper procedure and take every step right, prep your vision, deny it to the enemy, control the crab and the choke points and then force them to 5v5 at a disadvantage when you can win the fight and turn to immediately take the objective afterwards for the power play and giant gold swing to close the game.

SckullzzNov 23, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Happy to help. You can't always win, but using this method you can pretty much ALWAYS have an impactful early game and with careful timing and decision making you can consistently learn to transition this advantage into mid and late game leads that seal a win more often than not. The key element to this opening is how you maintain control of the objectives on the bottom half of the map. You've turned the game into a bottom half contest so control of the drake pit and taking bot lane tower are extremely high on the list of priorities.

With good objective control you can slowly strangle opposing teams even in games where you're team is playing roughly even by slowly stacking up the buffs and controlling the pace at which towers come down to keep ever so slightly ahead until you reach a tipping point and your team can just outright win a 5v5 fight. When this time comes go ahead and force the baron play. Make sure you follow proper procedure and take every step right, prep your vision, deny it to the enemy, control the crab and the choke points and then force them to 5v5 at a disadvantage when you can win the fight and turn to immediately take the objective afterwards for the power play and giant gold swing to close the game.

Yeah that's what I'm having trouble with now is when to take drag. Ganking is hard atm cuz its a 50/50 if my bot lane will be shoving into the enemy tower or not. For the past couple of games, I've been at least 2 levels ahead of the other jungler. If they try to adapt to my pattern, I just end up killing'em haha XD

OglafNov 22, 20162 votes

The only saving grace is for AD Champions and Red Buff having negative Armour.

But that's about it.

theArtifactsNov 22, 20162 votes

Well.. if Red side is bot side you have a faster clear on that first buff. You can then book it up to wolves>blue>gromp and gank top.

Troy242621Nov 22, 20162 votes

Plus starting red side means you have an inefficient clear path. Have to head down for krugs then back up for chickens. Top side is a smooth transition from buff to gromp.

Glory ln DeathNov 22, 20161 votes

You can always start at Krugs. Especially for single target champions, that'll help a lot more with your clear than starting red buff. Get a good leash, kill them quickly, and take less damage, then have lvl 2 for red buff.

You'll be good to go. The jungle changes don't demand that you start at a buff, just because smite bonuses are gone - there are better ways, depending on your champion.

AwoofNov 23, 20161 votes

You know that Krugs spawn later? You are basically wasting time waiting for them while you could do the buff, and you probably won't get a leash.

Chembaron YamadaNov 22, 20162 votes

The actual jungle is designed to be able to start without leash. That's why red takes extra ad damage and blue takes extra ap damage. I always start the jungle solo now, giving my laners the advantage of being able to farm from the start.

If I play an ad champ, I start red buff and if I play an ap champ, I start blue. I didn't have any problems doing a full clear with my jungle champs while starting solo until now. I don't see any problem.

CrazyBear1987Nov 23, 20162 votes

As Aatrox or Shyvana better to start with Red buff, don't need the blue anyway ;)

LankPantsNov 23, 20162 votes

Red to Krugs gives level 3. That's a good enough reason for certain bullshit monks to start Red.

Earl EulrichNov 22, 20161 votes

with the right jungler you can take red+stones pretty quick and then lvl3 gank top before the opponent jungler even hits level 3

GayFluffyUnicornNov 23, 20161 votes

Actually if you are one of the likes of lee, twitch you can either gank mid or top at level 2 when they are still level 1. Pretty broken currently if you ask me. Atleast that's what happened to me several times already during preseason.

EschetonNov 23, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Actually if you are one of the likes of lee, twitch you can either gank mid or top at level 2 when they are still level 1. Pretty broken currently if you ask me. Atleast that's what happened to me several times already during preseason.

Yup. A Hecarim charging at you with 2 levels, when you are lvl 1 and in the middle of the lane because you are winning the poke suuuuuuucks.

GayFluffyUnicornNov 23, 20161 votes

Yup. Like hell. At that point i usually don't have a ward either since i ward for my jungler usually before minions spawn.

Earl EulrichNov 23, 20161 votes

though most level 2s that early are rather easily avoided by cautious laners that don´t push out that quickly and then the opponent jungler has the level lead on you and can make your life hell (though ofc on lee it´s rtather save, he´s fast enough anyway)...if you donßt have a premade laner to set up the gank mostly your better off going for the early level 3 - except on the likes of xin that absolutly have to snowball to work...than it´s still the best shot at starting a snowball you´ll get.

GayFluffyUnicornNov 23, 20161 votes

Well that's why i especially mentioned twitch and lee. You won't see twitch coming if he's not braindead. Lee will have W, slow you with red, wait for flash and Q. The example i had in mind was in fact a twitch and i was pushed towards my tower but red+his AA+E was just way too much dmg early on me and the same happened to me in mid against a twitch as well xD Though when i jungle (which happens rarely) i usually don't gank before three as well exactly as you said when i'm not premade.

MarshbouyNov 22, 20161 votes

TBH i think gromp and raptors should switch.

Kr1sysNov 23, 20161 votes

{quoted}

TBH i think gromp and raptors should switch.

While they should balance out the aoe camps I'm not sure they could fit that camp there. I'd prefer them switching raptors and wolves.

ForFoxSakesNov 23, 20161 votes

I think raptors need to stay where they are. It's one of the most reliable and easy to pick off a few small raptors for the mid laner if they're behind and have an extra 10 seconds to throw a few spells in to catch up some CS and exp. I don't mind this coming from a jungle main for them to take a few small raptors to stay relevant rather than end up dead from falling too far behind

If they swap anything it should be Krugs & Gromp. If your ADC wants to sneak a camp its better for them to just burn that 1 minion Gromp rather than spend so long killing the entire Krug + splits. Less waste too, sucks when the ADC just takes the big Krug and a medium then has to leave which despawns the entire camp without finishing it off

Kr1sysNov 23, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I think raptors need to stay where they are. It's one of the most reliable and easy to pick off a few small raptors for the mid laner if they're behind and have an extra 10 seconds to throw a few spells in to catch up some CS and exp. I don't mind this coming from a jungle main for them to take a few small raptors to stay relevant rather than end up dead from falling too far behind

If they swap anything it should be Krugs & Gromp. If your ADC wants to sneak a camp its better for them to just burn that 1 minion Gromp rather than spend so long killing the entire Krug + splits. Less waste too, sucks when the ADC just takes the big Krug and a medium then has to leave which despawns the entire camp without finishing it off

Top will just do the same thing though if that swaps, and then you have an imbalance between red/blue on what camp is actually at Gromp's location. Blue already has a slight advantage and this would tip it further in their favor.

ForFoxSakesNov 23, 20161 votes

Maybe they'd have to readjust the exp for the camps if swapped. I find the blue side ADC taking the bottom jungle camp a lot more than the red side ADC taking the Gromp camp, while red top side will spend the time to fully clear the krugs having more sustain than an ADC

A Loyal SupportNov 23, 20161 votes

Ivern Sion my 2 new favorite jgers don't have a problem ;)

Supreme Senpai69Nov 23, 20161 votes

Ivern should have a problem since the jungle changes were all nerfs. You can no longer start at the opponent's buff while they're on Gromp because now they're forced to start on the buff. He doesn't get the bonus EXP from Kruggs that every other champion gets, yet he still gets the reduced EXP from Razorbeaks that they recently changed.

I'm hoping it it affects him poorly he'll get some slight compensation in terms of earning more EXP.

Shadow HazardNov 23, 20161 votes

It is mostly the primarily single target (machete start) champs that suffer. Riot needs to either notably buff it's damage even further, or give machete the same drain effect that talisman has so that they wont get so mauled by those camps. After that it should be much easier to tweak any outliers that are suffering still.

SckullzzNov 23, 20161 votes

I love it how EVERYONE who complains about red side forgets to to scuttle... stop your whining, go to the scuttle, IT WON'T EVEN FIGHT BACK.

There's your free health pot and you can move on.

FoxstepNov 23, 20161 votes

Lol, wenn I play graves i so red->Krugs-> gank top. But only if I'm red side.

ChaosReignsDownNov 23, 20161 votes

Those steroid chickens man..... the rocks arent so bad.. but those chickens..

RequiemsfireNov 23, 20161 votes

To go to the other side at a specific time if you know the enemy laner is going to be aggressive in either top or bottom, and want to prioritize map presence in those locations as well as secure the red buff early on?

Sèx Craved EveNov 23, 20161 votes

to gank top

Sex on RìftNov 23, 20161 votes

I start red side every time I have someone to help me start (so usually when im on blue side). I do red and go for level 2 gank (when I'm shaco or Udyr) or I go clear blue side jungle and go gank or counter jungle.

GULAG 4 UNov 23, 20161 votes

So you can be a masochist trying to do the raptors at level 2-3 xd

BrawlicSnakeNov 23, 20161 votes

You said AoE doesnt affect it, but in my opinion it does. As a rengar main I always start red side because its very easy for me to clear and I can always get an easy early gank off mid/top with my red buff because I end up top side if on blue team.