Hey Riot could autofill at least prioritize the support role for people who actually queue for it?

TheLittlestLulu·Nov 28, 2016·212 votes·4,276 views

I queued up for support and ended up with mid. Meanwhile the guy who got autofilled to support queued for mid.

Why is this allowed to happen?

71 Comments

Karn BishopNov 28, 201643 votes

Because they didn't bother writing in check algorithms to make sure of the best possible distribution of roles with the fewest angry people.

In short here's what the system does, it goes hm i need a jungler and doesn't find one so it fills with a support, then an actual jungle main shows up but now there's no jungle slot so it fills him support and this can occur for any role! now heres where the problem occurs is the system just goes this is good to go and starts the game, it does not bother checking to see if it can redistribute the roles within the prebuilt team to be more in line with what they want it just knows all slots are filled.

basically riot did not add a final check system to ensure the best combination of roles within an already assembled team it just fills slots as they show up in the system and does not check to resuffle if jungle main got support and the support got jungle simply because the jungler queued up a second earlier.

blueberrypancakeNov 28, 20162 votes

Maybe if Riot planned for teams to have intentionally disorganized teams like this, then they can increase the win rate of players who are bad and might need that boost in win rate to keep them interested.

Although this is a conflict of competitive integrity, Riot is a business and I would not be suprized and/or mad if this is the case

Pupper LoverNov 29, 20161 votes

That's a pretty wild claim to make without any sources to back it up. Care to share a snippet of the code with us?

JQKAndreiNov 29, 20165 votes

It is pretty simple to assume an algorithm that fixes things is missing/malfunctioning when the problems it should fix are still there.

Either how he explained it or in another way, Riot's algorithm does that while not addressing the problem.

He just listed the simplest way that the algorithm should work, which shouldn't be that far from the actual algorithm because a good program is a simple program.

Karn BishopNov 29, 20162 votes

I was going to give a reply but this reply here is more beautiful and correct then what i was going to write so yes what this dude said.

Battlecast SonaNov 29, 20161 votes

Occam's razor everybody!

the simplest explanation is most likely to be true!

HemanthNov 28, 201623 votes

Sadistic coding

OurLestradeNov 28, 201618 votes

One of those painful ironies now :P

AirKingNeoNov 29, 20161 votes

I don't want support role all the time

Before auto fill

I want support role all the time if I ask for it, wtf.

After

BreakuNov 30, 20161 votes

"I don't want support role all the time" was in reference too XYZ/Fill gave Support 90% of the time.

Nameless VoiceNov 28, 201611 votes

Big thread about it here: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/eRG2niy8-so-today-i-got-autofilled-into-someone-elses-primary-role-should-that-happen

In brief: the autofill algorithm currently seem to be very, very buggy.

DolasaurNov 28, 20169 votes

[{quoted}](name=Nameless Voice,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=12Itbrmr,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2016-11-28T14:38:19.745+0000)

Big thread about it here: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/eRG2niy8-so-today-i-got-autofilled-into-someone-elses-primary-role-should-that-happen

In brief: the autofill algorithm currently seem to be very, very buggy.

Autofill certainly adds room for bugs, but the core issue the OP described has been around since New Champ Select started. I've had friends queue top/jg and jug/top and they both got secondary, and that's happened many times in the past year.

SaiannaNov 29, 20161 votes

Funny, i check on Boards, Hot section, few times a day.

Your thread didn't show up in HOT section at all. Otherwise I'd read it for sure.

Looks like Riot tries to minimalize possible chances of players Rioting huh...

Nameless VoiceNov 29, 20161 votes

It was hot for a day or two, seems to have fallen off the first page now though.

(I find that usually "recent" is more useful than "hot" to see new topics.)

Sahn UzalNov 28, 20168 votes

I queued up as Jungle/Top. A friend queued up as Top/ADC

I got autofilled into ADC, he got top. Lol.

MrryZNov 28, 20161 votes

Am I missing something or is this actually not that bad?

Sahn UzalNov 28, 20165 votes

I got autofilled into my Friend's secondary role. The system couldve just given us both our secondary lol

DanjengNov 28, 20168 votes

Why was autofill suddenly implemented this patch? My queue times were fine before.

VexingRavenNov 29, 20164 votes

{quoted}

Why was autofill suddenly implemented this patch? My queue times were fine before.

And they don't seem any better after the patch, tbh.

Battlecast SonaNov 29, 20161 votes

because without autofill queue times get considerably longer once you get to plat-diamond-master area.

Anyone else remember the pre-autofill hourlong challenger queues? streamers were basically impossible to watch because they were in queue for an hour for a 20 minute clown fiesta.

DanjengNov 29, 20163 votes

Then I suggest autofill be only active in Diamond+ There is a large Bronze/Silver/Gold/Platinum playerbase, so finding a match normally took a few seconds to a few minutes only. Forcing a player to fill into a role they aren't optimal in lowers the quality of games.

I say if a player wants to fill, they would choose fill. Not made to fill by matchmaking.

JulanusNov 30, 20161 votes

Actually, I would argue that knowing the queue has a chance of giving a less optimal position can actually encourage players to learn the basics of each position.

Heck, I main Support (Mid/Bot Secondary) and suck horribly at playing Jungle, but I'd actually like having that chance of getting Jungle than to be guaranteed Support (or my Secondary). It'd encourage me to relearn Jungle for when I might ever have to play it.

DanjengNov 30, 20161 votes

I agree that learning all the roles is vital to developing a player's game knowledge and champion pool.

The problem is, Ranked is NOT a good place to learn a new role. There have been some very angry mid OTPs that have been autofilled into support, and continue to play their main in that role (Cassiopeia, Malzahar, etc.)

JulanusNov 30, 20161 votes

I agree. Ranked is not the place to learn a position. That's why Bots and Normals exist.

However, if a player with the knowledge that Autofill exists wants to go into Ranked unprepared for the possibility of being assigned another position, that's their own fault.

DanjengNov 30, 20162 votes

So in theory, autofill would work great if players were adept at all roles. Sort of like how certain governments work great in theory. But you know there will always be some people who will not do well with it, making it hard for other people in the system.

JulanusNov 30, 20161 votes

Actually, it did work back when Ranked Draft existed, before Dynamic Queue was introduced.

People still had their preferred positions, but there was no guarantee you'd get it. So, learning each position was actually a lot more commonly done than it is now.

Not only did it help people learn what to do when playing that position, it also taught them what to expect from others playing that position as well. That is something that isn't very common anymore.

Most people stick to one (sometimes two) positions, and never really learn much about any other positions. They may not be able to play the other positions well, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't try to learn how.

So, yes, it's actually a benefit for people to actively try to learn each position, at least to have the basics figured out.

EyesOfTheFoxNov 28, 20165 votes

I feel like ranked games are suffering because of this "autofill" fiasco. The last place you want to have trouble or no control over your role is a ranked game. Those games matter. Including an "autofill" option is basically Riot saying, "You know what, we don't care about the quality of your ranked games." They cite long queue times, yet before they implemented the "autofill", Riot stated that long queue times were only affected at higher ranks, of which a majority of the player base is not part of.

VexingRavenNov 29, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I feel like ranked games are suffering because of this "autofill" fiasco. The last place you want to have trouble or no control over your role is a ranked game. Those games matter. Including an "autofill" option is basically Riot saying, "You know what, we don't care about the quality of your ranked games." They cite long queue times, yet before they implemented the "autofill", Riot stated that long queue times were only affected at higher ranks, of which a majority of the player base is not part of.

To be fair, people did just fine in Ranked Draft before you could queue for specific roles.

JulanusNov 29, 20161 votes

Seemed like players at least had a general basic idea of what every position did back then since getting that one particular position was never an absolute guarantee.

Somewhat related, I've mained Support for years, so it was always fun getting matched with other Support players. :P

Battlecast SonaNov 29, 20161 votes

yeah, with the age of NCS has come the age of "I only need to know one role for ranked".

I miss when people mostly had at least 1 pick for each role just in case... What a weird thing to hear myself saying.

TwitchInMyPantsNov 30, 20161 votes

{quoted}

To be fair, people did just fine in Ranked Draft before you could queue for specific roles.

True but now that people are assigned roles bargaining for a role is harder. Everyone would call a role in chat of their own choice as if it were blind pick and if there was overlap higher pick order got priority, a system most people understand. Now you pick your role ahead of time but you're all secretly queuing fill but with a preference for a certain role. If someone wants the role they were given and you're filling your worst role, they have every right to say no because the game picked for them which was kind of the case with pick order though when everyone doesn't have predefined roles discussing and shuffling a team was more doable.

EyesOfTheFoxNov 30, 20161 votes

People didn't do "just fine" I remember those days of people arguing and fighting and trolling and dodging over the role they wanted to play.

Battlecast SonaNov 29, 20161 votes

let's go back to season 5 then

where there was no control over roles.

joliesseNov 29, 20164 votes

I've gotten mid at least 5 times queuing support/fill, it's hilarious.

MonkeyMadnessNov 29, 20161 votes

This is what you get for picking fucking fill as your secondary. God, why do you people not understand the definition of the word "fill"???

Ariel the CruelNov 29, 20165 votes

Mid is the most popular position. Support is the least popular position. That happening at all would be more of an oddity.

TwitchInMyPantsNov 30, 20162 votes

{quoted}

This is what you get for picking fucking fill as your secondary. God, why do you people not understand the definition of the word "fill"???

Support and Fill were synonymous for a year since its the role with the lowest active population. Filling is pretty much the act of taking an empty, necessary slot so unless player level or rank were involved in filtering out the many many many options to find a player for that role slot it should not ever happen.

MonkeyMadnessDec 1, 20161 votes

And Riot has been saying for literally that entire year that they were working to make them un-synonymous.

resumedNov 28, 20163 votes

before playing support gave you autofill protection i got autofilled to support when i had support as my primary

NekoniClawsNov 29, 20163 votes

Just a theory... (support main here too)

But is it possible that matchmaking is matching 'people **avaliable **for X-position of equal skill' can have a higher weight in selection than 'prefered position'?

That way you don't get support, but it matches someone of percieved equal skill against you in lane? (at least under some circumstances, and while trying to keep queue time low)

I've only come to think it can become more elo focussed because recently, I had a win streak... which was followed by several games where I _consistently _'happened to be' placed against silvers/golds in bot-lane (everyone else bronze, including me), and at the same time I got forced out of my primary position into my secondary (adc) It's like the matchmaking algorithms said, 'Not today. Elo first. Speed second. Position if we have time for it.'

Admittedly, bad matchmaking of skills kind of ruins games far more than not getting support doe; but do queuetimes ruin games more? That I'd argue with.

5050BSNov 29, 20162 votes

IKR

In ranked Autofill means we lost basically because people are place in roles they are not good at vs people that are good at that role.

Its better to dodge a match then to play it.

A little PeepoNov 29, 20162 votes

I think my riot made it this way because people were crying non stop about getting support consistantly.

Maximum MordeNov 28, 20161 votes

It's another social experiment like their adding a bunch of support capable champs to free rotation.

Ariel the CruelNov 29, 20162 votes

People who don't want to support are getting shunted into it. Supports are getting shunted into other roles. While I'm sure it will produce interesting data, I would have to question the purpose. If this is indeed a social experiment.

MonkeyMadnessNov 29, 20161 votes

Ya cuz this sounds fair. Let's allow a small percentage of the population to play whatever they want while the rest of us are forced to occasionally autofill...

Ariel the CruelNov 29, 20162 votes

When "the rest of us" are actually willing to play support and not just troll, dodge, or rage-quit, I will give up my auto-fill protection. ;p

MonkeyMadnessNov 29, 20161 votes

You are so self-righteous it hurts. You think you are afforded privileges because you play an "undesirable" role. This kind of talk makes the rest of us have even less respect for supports.

Battlecast SonaNov 29, 20161 votes

and you are the reason nobody wants to play support.

You need us in your games. You should want us in your games. And instead you demonize us.

How many support games have you played, hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?

[slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

TheLittlestLuluDec 4, 20161 votes

I keep getting mid instead of support when I queue as support and the people who end up with support didn't even want it.

What the fuck Riot.

TheLittlestLuluFeb 3, 20171 votes

why is this still allowed to happen