Can we talk about scaling?

pwc2016·12/7/2019, 9:11:11 PM·3 votes·1,010 views

I feel like Champions like Master Yi, Vladimir, and Kayle are pretty problematic and unfun to play against.

Why should any champion be rewarded for not feeding? The point of those hard scaling picks is to win late, which is theoretically fine, but it never works out that way. It always ends up rewarding players not actually doing anything and being rewarded for sitting there doing nothing until 20 minutes when they just 1 v 5.

Furthermore, why should such simple champions be the best at carrying games? Why are easy picks like Yi, Kayle, and Vlad (who's pretty easy) rewarded for doing nothing the whole game and simply have to auto or perform one combo to win a fight? Why shouldn't a hard champion like Rengar top, or a mechanically difficult champion be the one to 1 v 9. Isn't the point of 1 v 9 is that it's hard? But these champions break that by fundamentally saying "well, you didn't set me behind enough early game, so gg". If these were extremely difficult champions, I would have less issue, but they're not.

This is even more of an issue because 2 out of these 3 champs are top lane. With the new changes to dragon, spending effort to put a Vlad or Kayle behind will just result in the enemy team taking drag, giving them a big advantage, and a lot of the time, getting a kill or two onto a scaling pick really doesn't matter in the end if you don't do other things to push your advantage.

The main issue is that sustain in this game is ridiculous. Just look at something like Akali mid-with Shield and Fleet, she won't be bullied out of lane at any point. And that's the same issue with these scaling champions-because they have to scale, they're given a weak early with tools to help them survive. But between that, runes like Biscuits and Pot, and Doran's shield, it's often hard or impossible to bully them out of lane, giving them far too good of an early game.

Look at Vlad. The sustain from Q isn't bad in the first 5-6 minutes, but after he backs and gets Kindle Gem and Codex, he can just sustain pretty much forever.

Kayle gets Fleet, W, Pot, and Biscuits. She has an easy time util she becomes ranged at 6.

All these champions should not have access to this. To me, the only real counterplay to them is to gank them, WHICH IS NOT COUNTERPLAY. Everything sucks at ganks.

I just hate these picks because it's not a matter of if, it feels like a matter of when.

6 Comments

The thigh guy12/7/2019, 9:16:51 PM3 votes

The same reason Renekton Pantheon Talon Draven Olaf are practically unbeatable early game. Why should someone be rewarded just for showing up?

ZephyrDrake12/7/2019, 9:35:54 PM2 votes

simple doesn't mean they are easy. Hell because they are simple they are also very one dimensional which means they don't have as many options in how they can approach most situations. Which in turn makes them very predictable. This actually forces you to play smarter and not rely just on the mechanical aspects of your champion to win but actually makes you rely on the macro aspect of the game and your general game knowledge to win

Morglics12/7/2019, 9:17:25 PM1 votes

agree, as a not tank support i have no chance to stop yi , then how to ward if you cant move alone even for 3 seconds cause that thing kills you in 2

WoonStruck12/7/2019, 9:27:20 PM1 votes

Oh no, Vlad sustains... And still lacks any form of agency before his 2nd item.

Vlad may be simple, but he's not that easy, otherwise his winrate wouldn't climb with rank so significantly.

By mere fact that he can potentially 1v9 and is reasonably safe, if he were easy he'd have better winrates at low ranks.

Also, if you compare Vlad to the other hard scaling champions, he's one of the weakest. They nerfed his E scaling by 20%. He hasn't been an extremely strong late game champion since then. He's been okay.

Check out his winrate by game length graphs if you don't believe me.


Also, you suggested Rengar top is hard? What?

Timing your abilities and positioning well is harder than rolling your face on your keyboard and calling it a combo or "mechanically intensive" to feel better about yourself.

And you didn't mention Ryze at all? What?