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8 things, I think are, Wrong with the Shen Update

Sad Tyrant··4 votes·1,016 views

I played Shen a lot before the update, I felt like an un-killable tank that saved the carry at the last second, like I would be able to make plays that could destroy the game for the enemy team. But this update, i feel, has completely wrecked his early game, therefore his ability to reach late game, and his ability to top lane for those who are not skilled at mechanics. Since I am not really a Jungler this will focus on the top lane. Now for the list

  1. Base health Shen now has one of the lowest base health growth rates in the game on par with Mordekaiser and Sion(at least this guy can fix it), this puts him in the bottom 10 of base health at level 18, which is kinda weird considering he is a tank. kindred and Vel'kos have more base health than he does (Darius gets so much compared to Shen, Sustain and huge Base health)

  2. Sustain he now has no viable sustain, the tiny shield doesn't provide anything in the early game, due to the high cooldown and the large amount of damage he has to take just to farm. Suggestions for it, max health or make the base Value at level 18 for all levels and make the bonus health Scaling Scale with level

  3. Attack Range You don't know how frustrating it is, when a champion on 15 health runs away from Shen just because he does have the attack range to get the last strike of his empowered Q on them. Suggestion, Increase attack range when Q is active.

  4. His Q Relatively small to the rest, but a number of issues. the slow doesn't really do anything, it is highly situation-based. the AP scaling doesn't help. Suggestions, add AD scaling (not bonus!) and make slow for every direction.

  5. His E This just feels less effective, it feels shorter and thinner and is on a longer cooldown (see No. 6). Why did you remove the damage reduction (if you didn't at least put it on the tool tip again)

  6. Itemisation He simply has to sacrifice too much of his pure tank Items to get the CDR he needs to function, especially if he wants to cast his E and his W on a regular basis. the items recommended are costly and he can't farm properly.

  7. His W just simply feels weak, this has saved me from death several but the cooldown makes it a terrible laning tool and the late game positioning of it feels extremely hard to get it on your allies. perhaps a passive component that gives Shen Attack Speed, resistances to basic attacks or abilites would make it feel better

  8. laning he can't duel effectively anymore, unless he gets a huge lead or is against a very passive laner that can't fight. his Counter plays are too obvious, he has literally no safe range, he has trouble farming without his Q

Because of this, he really doesn't feel like Shen anymore to me, it just feels like a giant nerf to one of my favourite champions. I just hope you don't do the same to TaricTaric

12 Comments

Quepha5 votes

Your W has saved you several times but still feels weak? What do you want it to do? fill your health to full and insta-kill your enemy too?

Sad Tyrant1 votes

As I stated, the long cooldown and the difficultly of positioning it, makes it feel weak. but that is not a bad Idea, boost his and his allies health regen for the duration. and what do you think on the rest of the points? do you agree or disagree with the rest?

Quepha1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sad Tyrant,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0scaUsPk,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-02-04T03:31:04.205+0000)

As I stated, the long cooldown and the difficultly of positioning it, makes it feel weak. but that is not a bad Idea, boost his and his allies health regen for the duration. and what do you think on the rest of the points? do you agree or disagree with the rest?

Disagree. His base health is low because his passive is an incredible repeatable source of durability, his sustain on Q was replaced by a higher base health regen and given his powerful trading pattern he shouldn't also have ranged harass and/or sustain to let him stay out in lane forever. Your declaration that Shen can't duel anymore is just plain wrong.

Sad Tyrant2 votes

your line of thought is interesting, but i was criticizing how he is completely outclassed by champions with sustain and ranged attacks. the Repeatable shield doesn't seem really effective the early game considering how small it is, and giant cooldown in the Early make it seem like a bad version of Vi's. I guess it is just me with the Dueling then. But what do you think of points 3 - 6

Earl Eulrich1 votes

nah, you´re absolutly right with that - his only pattern is e->q->w, and after he has everything on cd there´s nothing anymore. So about any Champ in the game will just win the "duel" by keeping on rightclicking instead of falling back after the taunt. Shen is just horrible now, he cannot deal with ranged Champs in lane at all, and about any melee in the game that has half a brain is just crushing him.

Shen´s only way to win a game now is hoping that someone else snowballs and your ult prevents the opponents from stopping him. he´s about as interactive now as the next best wall (though you could paint that and watch it dry and it still would offer more suspense than playing the new shen).

Quepha1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sad Tyrant,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0scaUsPk,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2016-02-04T04:34:43.987+0000)

your line of thought is interesting, but i was criticizing how he is completely outclassed by champions with sustain and ranged attacks. the Repeatable shield doesn't seem really effective the early game considering how small it is, and giant cooldown in the Early make it seem like a bad version of Vi's. I guess it is just me with the Dueling then. But what do you think of points 3 - 6

  1. Shen's attack range IS increased during Q. Activate it and attack a tower, when the duration wears off then so does the increased range and you will see him have to take a step closer to the tower.
  2. He already has very powerful cc and utility on his kit, he doesn't need to also be impossible to chase. He doesn't need good damage scaling because he's a utility tank with ridiculous base damages. Incentivizing building damage can make him into an assassin very easily.
  3. Riot has mentioned that they did make an unintentional change to the hit box (the length of it) and are reverting that change. The damage reduction was probably removed because W gives 100% damage reduction to all the damage you would take from taunted targets
  4. He doesn't NEED cdr to function, even with cdr he ends up being gated by energy so you need to make your casts count no matter what. But even if he did there are a number of good options. Locket, Frozen Heart, Chilly Mittens, and Spirit Visage. None of those items feel like you're sacrificing to get your cdr and I ignored boots, runes, and whatever you could grab as a second damage item after Titanic Hydra..
Sad Tyrant1 votes

thanks for explaining. But Chilly mittens and Frozen heart seem really inefficient on energy based Champions. and I am still gonna say Shen needs the damage reduction on his E because while his W does give 100% you are not going to use it on yourself whilst team fighting where everyone is trying to focus your carry, it'll take too much mechanical skill or setup to use it during the taunt. The damage reduction was a tremendous boon to his early dueling power this removal allows his enemy to get too much of an advantage considering he has to all in to duel his opponent. Thank you for this Conversion, it gives me things to think about

Quepha1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sad Tyrant,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0scaUsPk,comment-id=000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2016-02-04T07:23:41.005+0000)

thanks for explaining. But Chilly mittens and Frozen heart seem really inefficient on energy based Champions. and I am still gonna say Shen needs the damage reduction on his E because while his W does give 100% you are not going to use it on yourself whilst team fighting where everyone is trying to focus your carry, it'll take too much mechanical skill or setup to use it during the taunt. The damage reduction was a tremendous boon to his early dueling power this removal allows his enemy to get too much of an advantage considering he has to all in to duel his opponent. Thank you for this Conversion, it gives me things to think about

Frozen Heart's mana is 1/6 of the gold value of its stats if you completely ignore the passive. It's a slightly bigger proportion on IBG but IBG also has a way more powerful passive. Pretty much any fully built item with mana on it is pretty efficient even without the mana (unless it built out of a tear). IBG might be a little sketchy on Shen over a triforce to just give you more damage but if you're against a team with two or more auto attackers, then the passive on Frozen Heart makes it absolutely essential for your team.

The loss of damage reduction on E is completely inconsequential on early trades because Shen will definitely use his W on himself for way more damage reduction. Later on you will take more damage than you used to if you're saving your W, but later on you will also be super tanky from items and also be able to get your passive up very often. Usually locking down an adc for that duration means that your team is going to follow up and kill them which is going to be worth any amount of damage they'd deal to you during the duration even if they're full build.

Quepha1 votes

As an add-on: Riddler is a Diamond-tier Shen main on NA who builds and recommends Iceborne Gauntlet and Banner of Command as cdr items for Shen. The passive on Iceborne is useful for slowing opponents and adding damage and Banner of Command's active helps split pushing while the AP is a nice little boost to his damage. He caps his cdr using runes but without them you could use cdr boots.

Earl Eulrich2 votes

basically everything is wrong and they should just revert the changes, fully agree.

Cavemantero2 votes

agreed. the rework is trash. tired of the leash on him and i've only played him twice since the rework. don't even get me started on the energy costs...

Paroe1 votes

Shen is a fighter now, not a tank.

Its very clear they wanted him to not be a dedicated tank from the stat nerfs...

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