Please make jungling suck less in the next season

Yenn··6 votes·737 views

I'm encountering more auto-filled jungles than supports, and whenever I queue jungle secondary, I end up getting it in 3/4 games. It's pretty clear that nobody wants to jungle, and I don't blame them, because it's not a fun or impactful role.

It's hard to gank early because of how much vision there is (i.e. it requires the enemy not be paying attention or forgetting to ward), which is the only part of the game that matters right now, and it's even harder to help a lane that's behind (we've all had many games where bottom lane gives a double kill before you even hit level 3). Once bottom tower goes down, you pretty much lose control of half of your jungle, and you're likely already behind, making it even harder to catch up.

The vision problem is pretty well reflected by the current top junglers; they all rush Righteous Glory and just run up the lane at 600 MS, because it's more effective than constantly clearing wards and coming back later.

This role is terrible, please fix it so that people actually want to play it.

20 Comments

Bańg3 votes

jungle doesnt impact enough?????????????

H E L L O?????????????

jungle in d3+ determines the game 90 percent of the time.

HELLO?

vision is free?

HELLO??????????????????

do u know how easy it is to gank atm?

u cant counterplay red trinket because u cant buy wards.

you are limited so if someone is camping your lane u cant do SHIT.

who knew pve was harder than pvp?

my god the bias on this site

TheDesoIation2 votes

jungle determines the 90% of games in d3+? Lmao

Bańg3 votes

{quoted}

jungle determines the 90% of games in d3+? Lmao

what?

"jungle determines the game 90 percent of the time "

i didnt word it incorrectly.

TheDesoIation2 votes

Not the wording,it's simply not true

Jmman2 votes

From my experience it is true. Two things are happening atm

1st only a few junlgers are viable. I had a jax jungle a few games ago and I knew we had an instant lose. Why because he is not a tank or strong ganker. This is a ganking meta. Look at the strong tank jungle. They all have strong ganking or counter ganking. They only other junglers are really strong at ganking too. So jungle has to have strong CC / tank or be able be able to instantly blick you.

2nd is catch up exp. meaning its better for the jungler to gank the lanes and get exp there. Then get the catch up in the jungle. This is why power farming junglers are the same level as the ones that ganked the lanes. Its just now that the lanes are ahead and the jungle is the same as your jungle.

This leads to if you aren't ganking and one of the said tanks you will lose more than you will win. So the medium to bad junglers aren't doing it anymore because they are losing and there champs aren't strong. then they get flamed in game and on the boards. So now you have a Jungle Main playing the meta against an auto fill. This leads to massive snowballing because the Non-meta playing jungle doesn't understand the new jungle.

Long story short the jungle is jacked and if you aren't ganking as a jungle then you really are holding your team back.

TheDesoIation2 votes

Okay here's a case scenario just imagine it:

Here you go sejuani one of the strongest junglers currently in the game and the enemy picks lee sin,GREAT favorable match up you outscale him and win overall.You start botside raptors go red to blue and head top to countergank the usual lee sin route.He enters top lane and you come get a double,great after that you head mid enemy flashes and still dies,amazing this is going great so far right?You head bot enemy uses all summs so you go back(your botlane still has all summs they should win 2v2 right?).As you are coming back from the base your botlane dies 2v2 against no summs botlane and used all summs,how?no clue.You get a gank mid and kill them and kill their jungler in an invade too,but your botlane dies again(how is this happening?) oh you look at op.gg and he's actually autofilled you try to gank bot with your midlaner but they use summs and barely get away,minute later the enemy adc gets a double kill with no summs somehow.

At this point you lose enemy adc is 6--0 it doesn't matter that lee sin did nothing the whole game and that you got 7 kill participations and he got 1 you lost the game cuz your adc is autofilled.

A teamfight breaks out your adc has really poor positioning and fails to flash a stun and you lost the game. Now this maybe sounds like an oddly specific case but it happens more than you think

Jmman1 votes

Two problems you were top mid instead or top/bot. Not good with lee.

The meta is ADC not bruiser top. If you ganked bot at lvl 2 or 3 or ganked top and ran bot would have won. As lee and 2 or 3 kills you can't land and instantly delete the adc. Unless they were janna support I blame the jungle. repeat after me ADC ADC ADC ADC. Man the games I lose are because they camp bot or our jungle never ganks. These are the only two reasons I have lost in the past few months. Mid and jungle need to gank bot f other lanes. They don't worry about any other lanes because ADC wreck face

Your bad. You help mid / Top. Other team put their resources to bot. There bot got ahead and won. When will people learn to help bot and F the other lanes.

Grizzlpaw2 votes

I actually had a harder time ganking when item 3649 still existed. If you were smart, you bought several of these with each back. Now, all i have to do is pink or sweep a trinket and the enemy has no way of gaining vision of that area for ~60 sec.

zepdrix1 votes

Agreed. There is way too much free vision in the game right now.

I think another reason people are not enjoying jungle right now is because tank junglers are king. At least at my elo, most people enjoy playing carry junglers like Lee Sin, Elise, Kayn, Rengar, Nocturne and so on.

But they are so inferior to the tank junglers due to items like Cinderhulk, Knight's Vow, Righteous Glory, Locket of the Iron Solari.

On top of that, the camps on red side really annoy me. These huge groups of weak monsters really encourages people to build Bami's Cinder. Single target damage just doesn't get the job done like it used to.

KirbyCake3 votes

are we even playing the same game? junglers literally decides 90%+ of games in high elo.

there is NOT enough vision possible right now. your yellow trinket can only be up half the time, control wards can be cleared without anything else, plants can be used to sweep out vision.

it's literally one of the reasons why league is so snowbally right now, vision denial makes it easy to outrotate your opponents when you have an advantage, because the enemy can't rotate nearly as fast without being as risky.

most people are calling for nerfs on the jungle if anything, it's kind of ridiculous how they outlevel solo laners while having tools to be more powerful than them to make ganks actually impossible to fail. this role right now has the lowest skill ceiling and floor.

Yenn1 votes

This is so stupid, I literally have to stop queuing for jungle if I want to play any other role, because there's nobody who wants to play it.

I've gotten jungle in 10/11 games so far, with middle primary.

xToxicOsirisx1 votes

Well theres your problem right there. Everybody and their mother wants to play mid. i'd argue that's one of the more popular roles. I put mid secondary specifcially so I get my primary role far more often.

Rins Thigh Socks1 votes

Are you telling me the role that single-handedly won games all the way up until Trist become meta wasn't fun or impactful?

W H A T ?

{quoted}

I think another reason people are not enjoying jungle right now is because tank junglers are king. At least at my elo, most people enjoy playing carry junglers like Lee Sin, Elise, Kayn, Rengar, Nocturne and so on.

Hey bud remember when Lee and Elise and Rek'Sai (with maybe Zac, Gragas, and/or Nid thrown into the mix) were the only playable junglers until everyone cried to replace them and make tanks more viable?

This is what happens.

Yenn2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ahri Lover Rock,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0pUKXuVQ,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-08-21T00:31:51.763+0000)

Are you telling me the role that single-handedly won games all the way up until Trist become meta wasn't fun or impactful?

W H A T ?

Hey bud remember when Lee and Elise and Rek'Sai (with maybe Zac, Gragas, and/or Nid thrown into the mix) were the only playable junglers until everyone cried to replace them and make tanks more viable?

This is what happens.

You're playing a different game from the rest of us, successfully ganking any lane at any point in this season has only been possible because someone fucked up, not because you did anything correctly or well.

Rins Thigh Socks1 votes

{quoted}

You're playing a different game from the rest of us, successfully ganking any lane at any point in this season has only been possible because someone fucked up, not because you did anything correctly or well.

You're Gold. Someone is clearly going to fuck up and that's room for the jungler to gank.

And ganking isn't even the tip of the iceberg. If you grew at all over your years of playing League you'd know that. Junglers are responsible for most, if not all of the pressure coming from, you guessed it, the jungle. Counterjungling, counterganking, or taking one of three incredibly powerful epic monster buffs are all things junglers can do that don't involve ganking.

fééd l0rd1 votes

Wtf ganking is actually extremely easy with plants stop jungle main

darkmatchwaldo1 votes

Jungling doesn't suck, you suck at jungling.

Erockandroll1 votes

Seems interesting, I wonder about this claim for a call for Junglers.

In actually, I'm a support main, and I always seem to get Support if I volunteer to fill. But maybe I would Q for Jungle primary and take a break from Supporting. (And probably end up with a support who doesn't want/play the role. )

Best Ekko NA1 votes

Post is kinda not accurate. Jungling is definitely the most game deciding role there is right now... the problem is more that people don't know how to Jungle, and get punished by those who do. Jungle is the most diverse role, giving the most freedom out of all the roles. The Jungler decides who and what has priority, they are essentially League of Legends "quarterbacks" from American Football. The Jungler decides who he's giving the ball too, and even whether or not his team is going for the 2-point conversion (big objectives).

Junglers need more knowledge and better decision making than just about every single lane on the map, because they are in control. In the past games were decided by which single player could carry the hardest, who could outplay, who had the most skill. When you look at the game now days, it's only about which Jungler makes the right reads and snowballs the right lanes.. which Jungler gold spikes and empowers his team the most... THAT is the team which wins.

A Jungler who can see his bot lane is in a losing match up, and camps the enemies to give his bot lane the lead, that is the Jungler who wins. A Jungler who knows his bot lane will win, so he pressures the top side of the map while the enemy Jungler is feeding his bot, that is the Jungler who wins. The Jungler who understands he can't help his bot lane, so instead reacts to the camp in the Top lane and snowballs himself and his top, THAT is the Jungler who wins. The Jungler who is able to make reads on mid and understands when he can make a play, THAT is the Jungler who wins. The Jungler who punishes the enemy Jungler's mistakes, THAT is the Jungler who wins.

The problem is, none of these choices are easy. They're actually extremely difficult because every game is different. The decisions that helped you the last game, aren't the ones which will help you win the next one. Being able to consistently understand the best choices and adapt is something that is difficult and requires a good head and experience to understand. That's exactly why people don't like Jungling. It's not because Jungling sucks, Jungling is simply complex and takes a long time to figure out.

Yenn1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Poptart Riven,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0pUKXuVQ,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2017-08-22T08:21:59.403+0000)

Post is kinda not accurate. Jungling is definitely the most game deciding role there is right now... the problem is more that people don't know how to Jungle, and get punished by those who do. Jungle is the most diverse role, giving the most freedom out of all the roles. The Jungler decides who and what has priority, they are essentially League of Legends "quarterbacks" from American Football. The Jungler decides who he's giving the ball too, and even whether or not his team is going for the 2-point conversion (big objectives).

Junglers need more knowledge and better decision making than just about every single lane on the map, because they are in control. In the past games were decided by which single player could carry the hardest, who could outplay, who had the most skill. When you look at the game now days, it's only about which Jungler makes the right reads and snowballs the right lanes.. which Jungler gold spikes and empowers his team the most... THAT is the team which wins.

A Jungler who can see his bot lane is in a losing match up, and camps the enemies to give his bot lane the lead, that is the Jungler who wins. A Jungler who knows his bot lane will win, so he pressures the top side of the map while the enemy Jungler is feeding his bot, that is the Jungler who wins. The Jungler who understands he can't help his bot lane, so instead reacts to the camp in the Top lane and snowballs himself and his top, THAT is the Jungler who wins. The Jungler who is able to make reads on mid and understands when he can make a play, THAT is the Jungler who wins. The Jungler who punishes the enemy Jungler's mistakes, THAT is the Jungler who wins.

The problem is, none of these choices are easy. They're actually extremely difficult because every game is different. The decisions that helped you the last game, aren't the ones which will help you win the next one. Being able to consistently understand the best choices and adapt is something that is difficult and requires a good head and experience to understand. That's exactly why people don't like Jungling. It's not because Jungling sucks, Jungling is simply complex and takes a long time to figure out.

Except this is 100% false, you can't do anything if your lanes are feeding or just bad. You're 100% reliant on your team mates. It doesn't matter that bottom is losing. If the enemy ADC is 4-0 by the time you hit level 4, there's nothing you can do about it.

Alternatively, your lane is just completely out picked or out matched, and you can sit there all day and never get a successful gank, through no fault of your own. And then you're behind because you've been hovering at bottom lane all game. Most current jungles just right click and either overpower the other jungle, or they don't. There's no middle ground, aside from a few rare picks.

Sorry, but jungle is terrible. It has nothing to do with knowing how to play it.

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