Builds are situational...

FortisDominus·Jul 26, 2016·57 votes·3,574 views

I see this all the time...

the enemy team has a shen, gragas, and malphite... I will buy !

no...

your second or third item has to be or we will get rolled in teamfights because you are incapable of melting the frontline without armor pen. Dont build this item last just because mobafire said so.

I dont care what mobafire or champion.gg told you to build. Each game is different and you should build to fit the situation.

edit: this was just an example, this didnt actually happen in one of my recent games, something similar did happen though

83 Comments

bill84Jul 26, 201631 votes

I think that the most obvious instance of this is when people are not building item 3123 against Swain or Vladimir or something.

RalanrJul 26, 201619 votes

I want to strangle people who don't do that.

"Why don't you build it?"

I'm your team tank. I'm already using money to buy MR to survive long enough so I can hold them down for you to kill them. I'm not the fucking jack of all trades.

Battlecast SonaJul 26, 201614 votes

adc to support: just make morellonomicon

me: OR YOU COULD SPEND 800 GOLD ON GW THAT IS BETTER THAN MORELLO AND COSTS 2100 LESS GOLD.

RalanrJul 26, 20168 votes

ADC: but muh damages.

Team: you're one of the main damage dealers on the team, that's why we rely on you building the right damages for the right tasks. So if the guy with sustain is giving us trouble, you buy the cheap an easy to use GW item because you apply it the best.

We have our jobs and you have yours. Fucking do it.

Battlecast SonaJul 26, 201613 votes

least favorite is when they make LW and you're like YESSS... YESSSS...?

And they finish it into LDR against Vlad and Mundo because "they're stacking health!"

[slayer-jinx-unamused]

kile147Jul 26, 20165 votes

I want an item that combines the two effects by dealing 15% damage to high health targets and applies GW, just so that I can laugh when I play Mundo and they still don't build it.

RalanrJul 26, 20161 votes

The worst part is that this would probably happen.

YumaS2AstralJul 26, 20167 votes

{quoted}

I think that the most obvious instance of this is when people are not building against or or something.

If people learned this, I am sure that Vlad would not have 50% banrate

PartholonianJul 26, 20161 votes

{quoted}

If people learned this, I am sure that Vlad would not have 50% banrate

I'm pretty sure pros know what grievous wounds is and they still consider him banworthy.

LordGeovanniJul 31, 20161 votes

The only person safe enough to utilize the stats dont want to get it because they got item 3036 and the armor penetration doesnt stack with item 3033 . and front line fighters dont have an alternative to help them out. For the most part dont care about the teams overall saftey and over how much damage they can shove out

Warlord ZudaneJul 27, 20161 votes

Relatively new, so I don't often think to do armor pen (and in my games people tend to not build armor, maybe they are just stupid - I don't know. I try to check their items to see if I need armor pen).

But still being relatively new I never thought to use GW against them. Seems pretty obvious now but I never thought of it then (don't often fight them though).

USG FailsawceJul 26, 201611 votes

Oh man, I say the same thing allll the time... it's kind of unreal how difficult a time people have with this. And it's irritating as hell.

It's even worse when the enemy team has like 4 AP, or 3 AP and a crapload of cc like... Amumu Veigar Zyra Chogath

and a teammate or teammates refuse to build any MR, carry champ/lane or not... adc won't get anything at all, and mid lane waits til 4th item to get an abyssal scepter. Meanwhile they're both 0-6 1-7.

The excuse is always like "but I need more damage, otherwise I'll be useless" or "I just don't have the gold, because I'm so behind! have to build damage first to get kills/gold"

Except that it doesn't work that way, and in fact works the complete damn opposite... lol. They're already useless, and they get SUPER far behind, because they have no merc scim to break veigars stun, or amumus root/ult, or survive zyra/cho, or whatever, and keep getting murdered and one shot.

If it was me, on the adc I'd probably rush a merc scim second (vs that particular comp) and maybe even get a banshees or maw 3rd or 4th TOO. lol

Then the next excuse is "they do so much damage, the little MR won't even help..." -_-

The point is to build appropriately so you don't GET super far behind to begin with, and yes, the MR DOES in fact help lol. If you survive a single one-shot, because your maw passive proc'd (PLUS the MR itself), or your merc scim active saved you - that's one less death (feed) to the enemy, not putting them further ahead of you. On top of which, you can now react, and counter attack accordingly, since they just used all their cooldowns........ lol

And hey, guess what... that gets you gold! So you can buy more "damage" or pen cus they have 2 tanks and some zhonyas. This is how snowballing works. And it works both ways - tons of AP, tons of tank, whatever the case. They get ahead/scale easily if you don't build to counter them, you get ahead/scale easily if you do.

ToastersaotJul 26, 201610 votes

I don't think item 3033 or item 3036 should come before the Caitlyn's Crit items, but I do think a item 3035 would be good after item 3085

Ashe JungleJul 26, 20162 votes

{quoted}

I don't think or should come before the Caitlyn's Crit items, but I do think a would be good after

Really depends on the game. Sometimes it's worth to go BF -> Zeal -> IE -> LW, if the enemy tank is fed.

DragfinJul 26, 20167 votes

{quoted}

I see this all the time...

the enemy team has a shen, gragas, and malphite... I will buy !

no...

your second or third item has to be or we will get rolled in teamfights because you are incapable of melting the frontline without armor pen. Dont build this item last just because mobafire said so.

I dont care what mobafire or champion.gg told you to build. Each game is different and you should build to fit the situation.

edit: this was just an example, this didnt actually happen in one of my recent games, something similar did happen though

Glad someone else said it because the sheep always get mad at me, lol. The tank meta exists because of the sheep that don't adjust to the situation. Just to piggy back off you as well. I always get, "Well they aren't building armor or MR yet." Counterbuilding is thinking ahead too and being equipped with the proper equipment before they are, puts you ahead IMO. Thinking a few moves ahead like chess puts you in a good place.

Tobias BracknerJul 26, 20163 votes

This this forever this.

It drives me insane when people build item 3085 in a team composition that never wants to see a 5v5.

Like, sometimes there are core items that you wind up building no matter what depending on role ( item 3089 item 3031 item 2049 ) and some items are too good on certain champions, but goddamn use your head when buying stuff.

SwiftKitten88Jul 26, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tobias Brackner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0pExYQxu,comment-id=0012,timestamp=2016-07-26T22:10:03.827+0000)

This this forever this.

It drives me insane when people build in a team composition that never wants to see a 5v5.

Like, sometimes there are core items that you wind up building no matter what depending on role ( ) and some items are too good on certain champions, but goddamn use your head when buying stuff.

+1.. although frankly i have seen a lot of low bronze ADC buy item 3085 just because it makes it so much easier to CS, and because most low elos players DON'T CS very well getting CAN be very effective and racking up gold that they would normally miss. its strangely... effective...

Tobias BracknerJul 26, 20161 votes

I can see that. Personally I'd rather they "git gud" but I can see how they'd like the crutch while learnin the ropes.

Also I feel CS is way overrated when you could be kicking in the enemy's teeth.

PartholonianJul 27, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tobias Brackner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0pExYQxu,comment-id=001200000000,timestamp=2016-07-26T22:24:05.786+0000)

I can see that. Personally I'd rather they "git gud" but I can see how they'd like the crutch while learnin the ropes.

Also I feel CS is way overrated when you could be kicking in the enemy's teeth.

I disagree 100%. Low elo players spend far too much time trying to get kills that often results in either dying or wasting time, when they could have been getting reliable CS.

Tobias BracknerJul 27, 20162 votes

Comin from #foreversilver the exact opposite is true in the laning phase.

Also coming from someone who watches a lot of competitive play, I feel they value CS way too much (like when they pick a lane bully AND THEN NEVER LANE BULLY)

Spaceman5pffJul 27, 20161 votes

Well they might not actually bully the lane by dealing damage, but the enemy does end up giving up cs to avoid being bullied, or sometimes they pick a bully just to force the jungler to camp them and take pressure off of other lane(s). The only lane bullys they pick tend to scale quite well into lategame as well, so this strategy ends up working nicely.

Angry MonsterJul 30, 20161 votes

happens in gold also... It very frustrating as a jungler seeing this. It tells me the ADC is worthless and not to bother ganking since they will not have the damage to make a gank worth while.

People are getting into Plat without having the basic skills that used to be required for a role. Sad really

AMYS GRAVEJul 26, 20162 votes

Maokai item 3089 item 3031 item 2049

then i get my situational items like item 3123 , got it!

Tobias BracknerJul 27, 20161 votes

My god...it's the dawn of a new META

ALL HAIL THE METAGOLEM

[slayer-pantheon-rainbows]

VerdadeJul 27, 20161 votes

Ruaan is not used to get damage on multiple targets. It's too weak for that. Cait and Jinx use its passive to increase single target damage (due to how their kit works). Only Ashe/Teemo use it for multitarget damage, as their ruaan bolts deal damage very close to main AA's damage.

Tobias BracknerJul 27, 20161 votes

Do they get more stacks if they hit multiple targets? item 3046 gives more AS

VerdadeJul 28, 20161 votes

Ruaan's increases rate of Caitlyn's headshots, as every bolt gives her a stack. Same for jinx' minigun, but there's special interaction with Missile launcher. Every bolt procs FULL splash damage, meaning she can get up to 330% AD. Considering this, its basically a must-have on both cait and jinx

Tobias BracknerJul 29, 20161 votes

Has anyone done the math on item 3085 vs item 3046 ? Just because whenever I see a Cait or Jinx rush either they don't seem to do nearly as much dmg as going item 3031

VerdadeJul 29, 20161 votes

Well, obviously RUSHING these items is bad. IE first is always better. Optimal build path for maximal DPS is BF->Zeal->IE->PD/RH

Tobias BracknerJul 30, 20161 votes

Yeah but I'm still curious about the math. It feels like a lot of people kind of do some math and come to a conclusion but don't really analyze the data.

VerdadeJul 30, 20161 votes

Well, you can always do the math yourself :D You'll learn mechanics of the game as well... Im too lazy/don't have time right now

Tobias BracknerJul 30, 20161 votes

I just asked if anyone has done the math. A simple "no" would work dude, or even a "I have no idea about the math I just accept what other people have told me"

VerdadeJul 30, 20161 votes

How to calculate DPS? Multiply AD with AS, Crit and damage reduction and you got it.

Put this into excel table and you can instantly calculate any item variations, gold and build path efficiency. It's all easy if you think a bit

Why do inexperienced players always assume vets are hostile towards them when vets tell them to try and research stuff? It's the best way to learn the game...

Tobias BracknerJul 31, 20161 votes

Homie, you need to pay attention to people in order to have a conversation.

You are ignoring my statements and responding to something completely different and I have no idea why.

Once again, you could have simply said "I do not know the math" or even "I just accept what the meta tells me is the best thing"

VerdadeJul 31, 20161 votes

jesus you're a jerk if you want maths do them yourself and stop assuming everyone except you is a meta sheepsheep

Spacesuit SpiffJul 26, 20162 votes

"Wtf where's your frozen heart noob naut????" -a blitz, who already had a frozen heart, while the enemy team had 3 heavy AP and corki. Lcs is clearly extremely educational...

PartholonianJul 27, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Spacesuit Spiff,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0pExYQxu,comment-id=000c,timestamp=2016-07-26T17:39:22.397+0000)

"Wtf where's your frozen heart noob naut????" -a blitz, who already had a frozen heart, while the enemy team had 3 heavy AP and corki. Lcs is clearly extremely educational...

An LCS team wouldn't draft that, because they would expect their opponent to counterbuild it appropriately and crush them.

Spacesuit SpiffJul 27, 20162 votes

You overestimate folks. He seemed to just expect me to blindly copy whatever build he just saw in an LCS game, context be damned

BooSyndicateJul 27, 20161 votes

You are flat out statistically wrong rofl

AFK PushJul 26, 20161 votes

Wouldn't it be best to build an early item 3035 then not finish it until you get your item 3085 item 3031 completed?

ErockandrollJul 26, 20163 votes

{quoted}

Wouldn't it be best to build an early then not finish it until you get your completed?

LW only applies to bonus Armor, and people won't have much of that, right out of the gate. And chances are, your not going to be fighting against the tank, during the laning phase.

Build what you need to lane, counter build the tank once the laning phase is over.

LazyW0lfJul 27, 20161 votes

I'll stick pick up a item 3034 or item 3123 if things are looking real grim before laning phase is over (or if there's a raka). I agree LW is pretty pointless early, but the other component isn't.

SwiftKitten88Jul 26, 20161 votes

yeah i have seen mid laner get item 3135 when not a single person on the enemy team has built ANY form of MR.

it also funny to see enemy top laner building item 3155 item 3065 item 3111 against me when I'm going bruiser Nidalee top...

hell goign top nid is almost VIABLE in my elo when you consider over HALF the games i do it in my opponent buys only MR and no armor.

FaieJul 26, 20161 votes

Void Staff is a large damage boost regardless of the enemy's MR. Just base (scaling) MR is high enough to warrant a Void Staff.

SwiftKitten88Jul 26, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Void Staff is a large damage boost regardless of the enemy's MR. Just base (scaling) MR is high enough to warrant a Void Staff.

um.. 63 of the champs in the game DON'T get MR per level and stay at 30 all game with base.. those who DO scale only scale to 53.4 at lvl 18

i dont really know at what point item 3135 become effective. but 23.4 MR over the BASE value of all champs seems a BIT too early to be effective imo

ReikkenJul 26, 20162 votes

Against a target with 53 MR, if you have sorcs and mpen marks and no other mpen, void staff's 35% pen makes you do 17% more damage. For a 500 AP Veigar ult, that's equivalent to 156 extra AP. This is not including Void Staff's 80 AP.

WaterDonkeyJul 26, 20161 votes

So this may be off topic. but ive been having trouble with it lately. when and why would you build item 1083 over item 1055

BârdJul 26, 20162 votes

Never get it instead of a dorans at the start of the game.

However, if you are in a lane where nothing is going to happen (such as Janna vs Soraka) you can pick one up on your first back. On champions like Kog'maw and Ezreal, who spam onhit effects, cull gives a lot of sustain, so that in addition to a dorans will let you farm up pretty safely.

WaterDonkeyJul 27, 20161 votes

Oh ok thank you see that makes sense. i asked my friends in game and they all ways just say "well cuz you do"

SpongebobIsLifeJul 27, 20161 votes

you know how people used to by double d-blades on their backs when they couldnt afford a better item? Well now you go cull instead.