- benefits AS/on-hit carries
- benefits crit/AS carries - nobody buys it for the AP boost
There's nothing here that would buff juggernauts, nothing to give them bonus ability to help tanks, nothing to help mages, not even anything for AD casters.
Why is this?
Micbran15 votesSupports are the ADC's bitch that's why /s
Big Lincoln7 votesBut if they added items they could be the bitch for other carries too :^)
50000000000000003 votes
Faceroll Tactics2 votesYou think people actually use the map in solo q!?
/s but kind of serious
Micbran1 votesEvery self respecting player knows that the only carry that ever exists in any game is an ADC and if you break the meta and don't play ADC you deserve to be banned on the spot.
GigglesO11 votes[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0ny8U1Nn,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-03-03T02:32:46.586+0000)
There's nothing here that would buff juggernauts,
nothing to give them bonus ability to help tanks,
nothing to help mages,
not even anything for AD casters.
Big Lincoln10 votesand every single one of those except for knight's and zeke's is a generalist item that works equally for everyone, and zeke's never gets built for the AP bonus
knight's is the only one that works much better with tankier allies to bond to than glass cannons
Silver Singed4 votes"works equally."
I think that was kind of the point. And just because Zeke's isn't built for mages doesn't mean it couldn't be. That's more tradition than limitation.
Cosnirak6 votesYou assume
nobody buys it for the AP boost
so you can claim...
nothing to help mages
[zombie-brand-mindblown] I buy it for the AP boost at times. The problem is that it sucks over all because without being in voice chat with your partner it's really hard to use properly.
MagicFlyingLlama5 votesBecause there is no such thing as a juggernaut ADC..
Typically a caster ADC synergies better with a poke or peel-oriented support, while a hypercarry like jinx or vayne works a lot better with an enchanter or initiator, which has something to do with it.
Also
Big Lincoln19 votes
Escheton10 votes[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0ny8U1Nn,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2017-03-03T03:11:33.521+0000)
^This. Mord rework had him intended as a Juggernaut botlaner.
also does decently if the comp is right.
50000000000000002 votesThere's also Ivern (who isn't a traditional support, ik), who synergize better with melees (especially juggernauts) than ranged carries.
chipndip11 votesIf only he was a bot lane support, though.
Pierce The Veal1 votesBecause there is no such thing as a juggernaut ADC..
Typically a caster ADC synergies better with a poke or peel-oriented support, while a hypercarry like jinx or vayne works a lot better with an enchanter or initiator, which has something to do with it.
Also
Graves...
EvanThomas1 votesI think Graves is considered more of a bruiser because he has mobility and no healing in his kit.
Pierce The Veal1 votesI think Graves is considered more of a bruiser because he has mobility and no healing in his kit.
Yeah. But he also has no cc, deals tons of damage, and is tanky as all hell. He doesn't really have a defined class.
notice me Sin pi2 votesi think most of us know that Master tier adc main who happens to be very active on boards as well
GayFluffyUnicorn1 votes*ex master
NGNL Asian1 votesBecause there is no such thing as a juggernaut ADC..
Typically a caster ADC synergies better with a poke or peel-oriented support, while a hypercarry like jinx or vayne works a lot better with an enchanter or initiator, which has something to do with it.
Also
Pale Pirate5 votesYou dare imply that support doesn't belong to bot lane?! I want you to meet my http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/024/724/ban_hammer.jpg
Legacy Hydralpha2 votes
TF is a bot lane?
Mira Arya Enthe4 votesBecause those classes have plenty of power independently while ADC is just a stat cannon your team protects to win the game. Unless we make all ADCs as self-sufficient as midgame Vayne they require teammates protecting and boosting them.
Big Lincoln2 votesAre you saying that all ADCs are boosted?
xd
Mira Arya Enthe6 votesBasically, boosted by their teammates. ADC is 100% team reliant, which is why they get so pissy about good teams and bad teams. The exception is Vayne who if she survives laning is self sufficient and Jhin whose design lets him him be generally useful regardless of his team quality. Other ADCs tend to be the product of their support, tank and team strategies until about 3-4 items at which time they become a champion like everyone else. But truth is, people say they want ADCs reworked to be healthier, but they really don't. If they were healthier they'd have to be more self sufficient like every other class and less feast/famine. Which means you'd have to deal with reliable, self sufficient ranged champions being viable all game every game even in solo lanes.
Big Lincoln5 votesthe only reason that would be a problem in league is because Riot won't address melee v ranged discrepancy, so the second they become self-sufficient like these fuckers 
they'll start forcing top laners out of the game
there are a large host of issues with the class (and how other classes have been designed around countering them specifically) that would need to be tackled all in one go instead of piece by piece, but if riot were to ever get around to it I have faith they'd do at least a competent job.
Mira Arya Enthe5 votesBecause it isn't simple. Range, no matter how weak, is an advantage. But if you just make the ranged champions shitty it feels shitty playing them. Mid/Late game it isn't much of a problem. Only in laning where enemy and you are forced to stand face to face for 10-20 minutes. Them out ranging you there is huge, so instead they made ranged champions immobile and/or shit early game so they can scale to relevance late game. But people bitched about diversity so Quinn and Graves, Gnar and so forth came to be. Now it is a huge problem.
The solutions are not simple. We could go back to all ranged champions are shitty and vulnerable early, which fixes it but limits design and means they have to have an excessively rewarding late game.
We could buff the shit out of Doran's shield vs ranged, but... that is the same as above except it now forces anybody facing a ranged champion to buy a Doran's shield, even if it is not optimal on them at all.
We could bar them from playing in certain lanes, but that does what everyone hates, enforces the meta.
We could make melee champions super OP early game, but they all have to fall off as hard as Pantheon late game which feels terrible.
There is no simple solution to fixing range vs melee, or Riot would have done it already. Most of the solutions either limit gameplay, tilt general balance or require a new engine and overall game design. Riot isn't just sitting on their ass, it is a hard problem to crack, or else we would still use swords vs guns in real life.
Big Lincoln2 votesChanges to minion aggro, early defensive itemization, early base stats etc would be a good start.
the doran shield changes we saw last week looked promising, but it might be a harder counter to battle mages like rumble and swain than ranged AD bullies
Mira Arya Enthe3 votesMinion aggro changes would be nice for everyone period, also allied minion blocking.
Big Lincoln2 votesor not being circled in by your own wave lul
Unironic SJW2 votesYou could go the early HOTS route and basically delete/deemphasize the lane phase altogether the problem is the playerbase LIKES the laning phase, which is why everyone wanted lane swaps gone. Also lane swaps feel bad for the melee in the 2v1. A more drastic HOTS style solution is deleting minion gold and last hitting all together, and put more neutral objectives on the map that would accelerate gold income, give stats, etc. Because as you say, the melee versus range issue is primariy a LANING issue.
Spoofghoul3 votesranged being immobile?
having shitty early game?
no my friend not true many of them have stronger stats then a lot of melee champs at level 1 there really isn't much overall difference their steroids just aren't as useful in the early game as pure damage or utility is which are things other classes poses.
Also many adc are very mobile, i have yet to see any of them suffer actual base movespeed penalties, in fact they tend to be rather quick especially when itemization gets bought like zeal items
Many of them have mobility as well let me point out a few adc with mobility, in this i will include readily available dashes, blinks or heavy movement steroids
Coincidentally those with no movement boosters/dashes seem to have access to powerful cc, long range abilities and other powerful utility like invisibility
I don't know where people get the notion that adc are immobile because some of the most mobile champions in the game happen to be adc's
LordGeovanni2 votes
invisibility is also movement speed aka mobility
extra crit chance is also ad even though crit chance works just fine and every crit and rooting w gives a speed boost. dont mention how he has multiple heavy cc
Aptest1 votes+1
i'll add a clarification: this means that you'll jump them as an assassin and they beat the crap out of you if they are ahead.
Sp33d Zer03 votesI have seen supports put Zeke's on ANYONE with high damage, not just ADCs, and Censor helps everyone, since lets be honest, over 95% of champions in this game auto attack at least a little bit in team fights. Just because it synergizes the BEST with crit based ADCs doesn't mean it is only good for them.
deadlychuck3 votesWell if you had some amount of control over
then you might actually see it, but without control over it's activation or a consistent effect like it will never see much use.
NastyMcOutplay3 votesi always bind knight vow to any melee on the team, especially juggernauts
Dasdi962 votesThis is because mages, juggernauts, bruisers, tanks, and assassins are used to working on their own. Rito wants support to have the most synergy with adc.
zlumpy2 votesBecause we can't have nice things like auras >.>
LordGeovanni2 votesactually can boost ap champions
and can boost fighters as the most sorely missing thing from the entire fighter class is attack speed because any time an adc touches a bruiser attack speed item it mysteriously disappears. can be combo ed with . though i never use and only find it useful on 
seeing as he can heal a whole team and while the heal is shit everyone can get the benifit of . but taric is dead as a tank to me i only play ap mage taric with wind speaker and ardent censer as a heal bot since his ult is worse than useless now.
i like to put on front liners and only change to adcs when they are actually targeted
chipndip11 votesZeke's isn't even an item...let's start with the lack of decent offensive support items, and why Locket/Redemption are clearly better options than anything else a support can build.
Also start with why when I make a thread basically calling out the exact same thing, I get downvoted and reminded of the time when FQC had 150% mana regen, and thus got taken mid, without the idiot reminding me of this remembering that FQC had 150% mana regen of all bloody things.
50000000000000001 votesZeke's allow your ADC to get early lifesteal and still be useful with the crit chance. It's not always useful, but it can be good in some situations. I can see it being amazing on lethality Jhin.
chipndip11 votesNot good enough. No one builds this for a reason.
Lethality doesn't need it over other things.
Crit builds get 80% - 100% anyway.
This item sucks.
TeCoolMage1 votesThe lethality user doesn't buy it so it's a free bonus for them either way
chipndip11 votesThey'd rather Locket/Redemption.
Athenes Lulu1 votesThe better question is, why are there no items that benefit caster ADCs?
Big Lincoln1 votesya that's i said in the first sentence
