Irelia is not the problem, Conqueror is

IP Masquerena·Nov 2, 2018·6 votes·3,138 views

Let's take a moment of pause and think for a second (ok, I know I'm asking too much of some players, but hey, do it for me).

Before Conqueror was released, Irelia's kit was considered weak after all the nerfs she got post her release when she was indeed too overtuned, then suddenly a new rune pops up, and she's Top Gun.

We all know that Conqueror in it's current form isn't a healthy rune, yes it gives something to bruisers to fight against tanks, which otherwise would just demolish them, but the rune itself is too overtuned.

If Riot would nerf or rework Conqueror, Irelia wouldn't be such a problem, she wasn't prior to the rune, so it should be obvious that the rune itself is an issue. It gives her too much dueling power early by giving her a lot of AD and the True Damage.

25 Comments

Moody PNov 2, 20189 votes

irelia's rework came out after conqueror got added.

conqueror is a mediocre keystone that only a small handful of fighters are even using. stop crying about it; it's far from an issue.

IP MasquerenaNov 2, 20182 votes

Well, you surprised me. I know that part, Irelia came in 8.7, Conqueror in 8.6, I was just curious to see if players do consider such stuff.

SithesisLordNov 2, 20182 votes

It is definitely an issue. The fact few people are picking it doesn´t change that fact.

It's an unhealthy rune.

Riot handled the whole """""""""""issue""""""""""" with tanks really poorly.

They still couldn´t find a solution to Black Cleaver being a supbar item for Bruisers that gets abused by unintended users, despite having the solution been done before, to a different item. Abyssal Mask.

Make BC's armor reduction passive an aura with 300 range, buff the armor reduction itself.

Change Conqueror to be more similar to Fervor, but with an extra oomf. AAs on enemy champions generate stacks. 1 - 8 AD per stack Stacks 6 times for a maximum of 6 - 48 AD While at max stacks, gain 10% total armor penetration on auto attacks (stacks multiplicatively). Stacks fall off one by one at a 0.2 second rate after not being in combat for 3 seconds.

Ranged champions gain 33% of all benefits from the rune.

True damage isn´t the way to deal with tanks. It never was and never will be. The fact that the state of top lane barely changed from pre-Conqueror to post-Conqueror supports that.

Moody PNov 2, 20181 votes

your arbitrary standards for it being unhealthy don't make it unhealthy

SithesisLordNov 3, 20181 votes

Except for the fact that it pushed Cleaver bruisers into building Triforce just to get bigger true damage conversions and kill tanks faster.

Cleaver was a bad item already. Conqueror just made it not needed. Just like IE's true damage made Last Whisper not needed for ADCs to deal with tanks.

Conqueror is unhealthy because it half-assed fixed a problem, and generated several more.

Hardly a good trade off when there are more problems added and one "removed".

Conqueror's and IE's true damage has no business existing.

chipndip1Nov 2, 20184 votes

Mediocre key stone.

Conqueror.

Like...wow...

Moody PNov 3, 20182 votes

conqueror is massively overrated and not even picked by a good handful of the best top laners

there's NO reason to bitch about it when it's not a problem by any measurable metric

chipndip1Nov 3, 20181 votes

I didn't say it's OP. It's good on the people that take it, and that's good enough.

I'm just talking about you saying the opposite extreme.

DuskDaUmbreonNov 3, 20183 votes

irelia's rework came out after conqueror got added.

Doesn't mean it's not what's making her OP.

conqueror is a mediocre keystone that only a small handful of fighters are even using. stop crying about it; it's far from an issue.

Only a few people are using it, but it doesn't make it not OP.

Moody PNov 3, 20182 votes

yeah and it's not OP

irelia is OP because she's horse shit with broken hitboxes and having way too much going for her to not be making a severe trade off

ŚhunpoNov 3, 20185 votes

I mean, Irelia just has an overloaded kit....that's the real problem with her.

ParoeNov 3, 20182 votes

{quoted}

I mean, Irelia just has an overloaded kit....that's the real problem with her.

Shes basically fiora combined with ezreal, and her problem is the same as ezreal; Her Q is treated as a basic attack and has very high scaling.

Shazzbot69Nov 2, 20184 votes

Hey, are we saying better nerf irelia unironically now? What a time to be alive

SwiftKitten88Nov 2, 20185 votes

{quoted}

Hey, are we saying better nerf irelia unironically now? What a time to be alive

we have been saying it since the day she was reworked.. but they kept BUFFING her

DuskDaUmbreonNov 3, 20181 votes

She hasn't gotten buffs for months though...?

SwiftKitten88Nov 3, 20184 votes

{quoted}

She hasn't gotten buffs for months though...?

8.8 8.9 8.13 8.15 8.17

...

ankoanko19Nov 3, 20182 votes

{quoted}

8.8 8.9 8.13 8.15 8.17

...

8.17 was 2 months ago. 8.15 was a change in playstyle. 8.13 was a total nerf wtf lmao. 8.9 and 8.8 were also playstyle changes.

Death by GlamourNov 2, 20183 votes

she would just take press the attack then

and still stomp

AlienPrimateNov 3, 20182 votes

Kind of like in this clip

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NH2pjtL4smw

DuskDaUmbreonNov 3, 20182 votes

There are only two things in common between most OP fighters right now: Trinity and Conquerer.

It's gotta be at least one of them, then.

SHANK LUX MAINSNov 3, 20182 votes

No, its irelia. None of the other conqueror abusers are nearly as aids to deal with than her. Hell half the time she just one shots you before it procs midgame

Chembaron YamadaNov 3, 20182 votes

I disagree. Irelia seems to me to be one of these champions with way too many tools to work with and therefore will always be busted in competent hands as long as she is not gutted that hard that she is unable to function in the hands of the average player.

Passive gives her too much. On-hit damage additionally to attackspeed increase and additional damage to shields.

Q gives her extreme amount of mobility, thanks to it resetting on take downs and marks. Why did it have to be both? They could have made it just by take downs, yet they had to give her 2 tools to reset it without killing with her E and R? And why give it a heal based on her AD instead of just a small flat healing like Yorick gets if she has her W as a defensive tool, too?

W is fine as a defensive ability, if she wouldn't have that much sustain through her Q additionally to it.

E doesn't have to mark targets imo, the stun she gets from it and which can cover a pretty big area should be enough reward....

R deals damage on hitting and leaving the zone... why exactly? Why not just on impact? Isn't the mark and disarm you get from touching the edge enough reward?

____________-

They should take away some of the stuff in her kit. The synergy in itself is too strong and both, statistics and proplay, show that she just is way too effective and versatile.

IP MasquerenaNov 3, 20181 votes

Well, tell me one of the complex champions that isn't busted in the hands of a competent player?

The problem with the more complex champions is that they will always be strong in the hands of competent players.

Yes, I agree that her current power level for avarage players is a bit too high, but I find that issue to be more thanks to Conqueror as she gets too much with it and does what she wants. Other keystones still keep her strong, but not AS strong as now.

Chembaron YamadaNov 3, 20182 votes

The thing is, why does she have to be this level of complex?

They could take away some of the mechanics in her kit and she could still function. Why does her heal on Q have to scale with AD instead of making it a flat heal for lane sustain like they did with Yorick? She has W as a defensive tool, why giving her a scaling heal then?

Why does she have to deal extra damage to shields with her passive? She already gets on-hit damage on top of attack speed (which already is a strong synergy in itself), why make her then spit on shield users extra hard?

It seems they just crammed too much stuff in her, even if she doesn't actually need it to have a functioning kit.

IP MasquerenaNov 3, 20181 votes

They can change the heal on her to make it easier to manage, but just as always, you forget that healing, especially on bruisers like her, is balanced around the fact that enemies can buy Executioner's Calling and Bramble Vest.

I wouldn't mind her healing be changed to a flat amount, but it will be another thing people will cry about, as it will need to be high enough that it can still allow her to barely survive lanes where the enemy buys those items, instead of being killed by those, and since players don't buy such items, they will cry about the healing being too high.

If you ask why she has to be so complex, tell me why Pantheon, Yi, Feedamere, Foodyr, Garen have to be so simple?