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Why people say that mages are weak/no longer viable?

YumaS2Astral··3 votes·1,133 views

I've seen many mages that still work well, especially at mid lane. Although they are mostly mages who are not as reliant on cooldown reduction and mana regeneration to work. For example, Brand - which even has a lot of synergy with Deathfire Touch (although this has been nerfed). There are also many mages that I see such as Anivia and Malzahar, being used and having success. Even Karthus, although I see him less than the other mages. There are also some mages such as Lulu and Ryze that were already popular before and are still commonly used.

I've been carrying tons of games with Malzahar during this pre season. He is incredibly strong, like Brand he is not reliant on cooldown reduction and mana regeneration, and his damage is insane.

I don't know why people say that mages are no longer viable. It maybe has to do with the fact that the current mastery tree is not helpful for mages that are burst/CDR focused.

27 Comments

Hayaishi24 votes

Because people are bad.

I haven't had problems with mana regen this pre season.

YumaS2Astral1 votes

{quoted}

Because people are bad.

I haven't had problems with mana regen this pre season.

I only have problems on champs in which I already had mana issues before.

But there is also the fact that it is harder to get cooldown reduction on mages now. Maybe this is one of the reasons why people say that mages are bad, even though DoT mages tend to not rely on cooldown reduction. In fact, DoT mages were never weak.

Ionian3 votes

It is undeniable that burst mages are weaker now compared to AD champions / DoT mages.

However that doesn't mean I can't stomp with Ahri .

YumaS2Astral1 votes

[{quoted}](name=If Ahri Was Real,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0f2AMb7o,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-12-13T23:29:21.573+0000)

It is undeniable that burst mages are weaker now compared to AD champions / DoT mages.

However that doesn't mean I can't stomp with Ahri .

Yeah, not ALL mages are weak, people are saying that mages are weak because they were accustomed with the burst mages that were once much more popular than DoT mages.

DoT mages were never weak, they are popular now only because they do not rely as much on CDR and mana regeneration, and they have better synergy with the masteries.

EcchiOtakuTM1 votes

Burst mages are by no means weaker, if anything they're stronger than ever, especially with thunderlords being a keystone.

Dominick Destine2 votes

In this era; Mages are probably the weakest they've ever been.

Slamurai Jack1 votes

I'd ask you to present any sort of evidence whatsoever to support your claim, but I know there isn't any.

Dominick Destine2 votes

Given that the era only just began, I'd be hard pressed to present enough raw data.

Wait until the first tournament before you ask for such nonsense.

Slamurai Jack1 votes

We have All-Stars. And what's this? It's mages in mid on both sides almost every single game. You know who isn't being picked? Yasuo. Not a single pick or ban of him so far in any of the serious All-Star matches.

Sona Ping1 votes

Because there is a difference, actually many differences, between how well a champion performs, how well a champion can be used to reach prior stated performance, how well a champion performs at a certain level compared to their counterparts, and how well a certain champion performed in a certain game, which is what you are talking about. A champion can be weak but still have games in which a player playing with them can do well.

Or to use an analogy: A drug, let's call it Drug A, can be used treat patients afflicted with Horrible Disease X and can be used well in specific treatment methods and have an adequate response from patients 60% of the time. Drug B, however, simply does well against HD X about 80% of the time. Drug A is weak in comparison and may no longer be a viable option as there is Drug B, which works more regularly and with better results.

"There are also some mages such as Lulu and Ryze that were already popular before and are still commonly used." Well this one is easy; a very large amount of players play champions that they want to play and will play them regardless of how "weak" or "strong" they are. There is also the scenario where a player is most practiced on Champion Y and will pick Champion Y because the amount of practice lends them more advantage than another Champion. However, this choice is still going to be affected by outside changes and the player will perform worse because of those outside factors, and get worse results because the champion is weak at the moment.

xReadyPlayerOnex1 votes

There are ZERO mages in the game that can legit carry a team. That's why. Their damage falls off or a tank/sup runs in and 2 shots them. Even the normal insane/godmode hyper carry mages like leblanc aren't even close to the insane carry ability MANY other champions have. It's a disadvantage to be an AP Mage at the moment. Sure, if you get AHEAD on any champ, they rule. Brand, and malz for sure. But try being behind on them and having ur attacks do 50-100 damage on a 4k hp tank.

Very Hard Engage1 votes

{quoted}

There are ZERO mages in the game that can legit carry a team. That's why. Their damage falls off or a tank/sup runs in and 2 shots them. Even the normal insane/godmode hyper carry mages like leblanc aren't even close to the insane carry ability MANY other champions have. It's a disadvantage to be an AP Mage at the moment. Sure, if you get AHEAD on any champ, they rule. Brand, and malz for sure. But try being behind on them and having ur attacks do 50-100 damage on a 4k hp tank.

Viktor Velkoz Ahri Azir Katarina Lux Vladimir would like a word with you

xReadyPlayerOnex1 votes

Not one of them can live through an even cs/kill tank beating on them. With the slight exception of vlad, but he's not carrying anyone.

Sorry, but you and the other people who downvoted me are wrong. EVERY one of those mages get's 2-3 shot.

Very Hard Engage1 votes

{quoted}

Not one of them can live through an even cs/kill tank beating on them. With the slight exception of vlad, but he's not carrying anyone.

Sorry, but you and the other people who downvoted me are wrong. EVERY one of those mages get's 2-3 shot.

and everyone of those mages can build item 3001 item 3089 item 3135 item 3285 item 3151 item 3116
with tons of pen, damages, and kiting/mobility and take ZERO damage from the tank.

im sorry, but you're outright wrong here, dont misinterpret your experience for what actually goes on in league. go watch some professional players, bronze is not a good reference point for balance.

the mages you run into struggle to land their abilities altogether, and miss upwards of 100% of their damage, and you think anyone who can right click for consistent damage(or some other AD assassin who cant miss) is stupid OP why wouldn't we all play them.

darkmatchwaldo1 votes

Ignore the tank, insta delete their carry cause you're a bossAhri, and now suddenly your ADC is free to SHRED their tank who built MR instead of armor?

Doesn't matter if you can get 2-3 shotted, just don't get hit. Ekko Fizz Ahri Katarina

Hayaishi21 votes

{quoted}

There are ZERO mages in the game that can legit carry a team. That's why. Their damage falls off or a tank/sup runs in and 2 shots them. Even the normal insane/godmode hyper carry mages like leblanc aren't even close to the insane carry ability MANY other champions have. It's a disadvantage to be an AP Mage at the moment. Sure, if you get AHEAD on any champ, they rule. Brand, and malz for sure. But try being behind on them and having ur attacks do 50-100 damage on a 4k hp tank.

leblanc isn't a hypercarry mage, you're clueless.

xReadyPlayerOnex1 votes

I'm just using the terms. Leblancs typically one of the best ap mids ever. But she's not this season, by far.

Its All Skillzz1 votes

{quoted}

There are ZERO mages in the game that can legit carry a team. That's why. Their damage falls off or a tank/sup runs in and 2 shots them. Even the normal insane/godmode hyper carry mages like leblanc aren't even close to the insane carry ability MANY other champions have. It's a disadvantage to be an AP Mage at the moment. Sure, if you get AHEAD on any champ, they rule. Brand, and malz for sure. But try being behind on them and having ur attacks do 50-100 damage on a 4k hp tank.

Ezreal ap can lol.

Slamurai Jack1 votes

Because people see the increased cost on AP items and automatically assume this means mages are weaker. Never mind how the changes to Dorans Ring and the new masteries an an enormous buff to most mages. The only mages that are weaker now than they were before are those that rush Zhonyas 2nd item.

darkmatchwaldo1 votes

Meanwhile general gold income was buffed so the item doesn't ACTUALLY cost more.

Slamurai Jack1 votes

It does end up costing a few hundred equivalent gold more compared to 5.21 but that is easily offset by everything positive mages have received so far.

darkmatchwaldo1 votes

Exactly. The new item 1056 is amaaaazing. Mana regen buffs for the Mage supports. Deathfire touch. Sure mana pots are gone, but i like it this way. Now the enemy Veigar has to actually manage his mana instead of getting 5 pots and endlessly spamming event horizon. I feel like the mage class has become much more balanced, champions that were supposed to be mana gated are ACTUALLY gated, they can't just spend 150g to get around it. Also, squishy comps are much more popular, so the AOE mages are putting in serious work Brand Anivia Syndra Velkoz Viktor

Its All Skillzz1 votes

{quoted}

Exactly. The new item 1056 is amaaaazing. Mana regen buffs for the Mage supports. Deathfire touch. Sure mana pots are gone, but i like it this way. Now the enemy Veigar has to actually manage his mana instead of getting 5 pots and endlessly spamming event horizon. I feel like the mage class has become much more balanced, champions that were supposed to be mana gated are ACTUALLY gated, they can't just spend 150g to get around it. Also, squishy comps are much more popular, so the AOE mages are putting in serious work Brand Anivia Syndra Velkoz Viktor

why does no1 mention ap ezreal in a squishy comp killer?

NemeBro1 votes

Because they're stupid.

ForgiveColour1 votes

Because those people and reddit are mostly bronze

Niyumi1 votes

The easier a champ is, the stronger they are -- even at "professional level" play. At Worlds, you saw one match with Azir, and every other game was loaded with champs who have a skill ceiling so low, you could almost call it a floor.

Skillshots are a willing handicap in this game, and the only way to really be competitive is to use braindead clickers who don't aim, think or even have to put in any amount of effort to win. Just spam CC and click on people, bam, you won, and played like a person at Worlds.

Jungle Lux God1 votes

People say that because a lot of the AP items got nerfed rather hard this preseason, and the AP itemization nerfs get pushed over into the AP champions themselves.

However, some mages actually get to be very successful because they are served very well by the masteries. In particular Deathfire Touch is extremely powerful on DoT casters and Thunderlord's Decree is extremely powerful on a lot of burst casters, leaving a lot of mages actually pretty good.

The biggest reason I think that mages might actually be so strong is that there's no one else to take in the mid lane. Any AD that isn't served by the crit items got hit pretty hard in the preseason because their items got nerfed harder than the AP items and the masteries didn't serve them as well as the other masteries that AP champions can use, leaving the mid lane devoid of any viable AD laners that aren't Yasuo or AD carries, the latter of which aren't seen too much.

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