Has Veigar's Laning Phase Improved Since The Rework Or Gotten Worse?

DrCabes··10 votes·1,748 views

This post is strictly on Veigars laning phase being 1v1 in lane and jg ganks considered, not team fighting.

On old Veigar I always felt I had options on how to play in lane. I could strictly focus on farming, poke down the other laner, or a mix of both. Now however, I feel Veigar has no choice but to sit back and strictly farm. I say this because all of his abilities require the other laner to make a mistakes in order to land, thus giving Veigar very little to no solo kill pressure. That being said his E can still work well (though not as well as it used to) with a gank from your jungler. This is maybe the only situation where trapping the other person can be useful. On the other side though, his E isn't nearly as reliable as it used to be which puts you at a higher risk of falling victim to the opposing jungler yourself or even just to the other laner. On a more positive note, Veigar can farm much more safely then before and doesn't run into to much mana issues so long and he's just farming.

I guess the question really is, is Veigar's increased farming ability on his Q worth more then the solo kill pressure he used to have and does it help him transfer to late game better?

18 Comments

MAZZ1M017 votes

Significantly worse. I don't use him anymore. The E change makes him utterly unplayable. Losing DFG wasn't that bad. You could still make due with other items, the E change though... nothing makes up for that. The Q is nice in that it can hit two things now, so theoretically two AP per cast which I'd imagine would be crazy good if you get good at it, but I don't foresee anyone trying to bother because he has no way to safely lane against anyone. The W is useless without the E stun and E will never hit, even if they're trapped in it, they can still dodge the W inside it as well as your Q. E does absolutely nothing during the laning phase. It would be decent for ganks, but that doesn't help you lane otherwise. It also can't be used defensively anymore so you have no way to stop anyone aggressive.

Hawkefire1 votes

Sadly that Q change is also more of a bane than a boon because it is very difficult to actually thread it through minions and if the enemy is hiding behind their minions you simply wont be able to hit them with it half the time because the pass through is so huge that it can hit minions that are NEXT to the first one hit.

Yuki Akuma10 votes

Without a doubt the single worst remake in the history of LoL

skyfall6192 votes

completely worse. only have one dmg ability and thats a skill shot the rest of his kit is pretty much rng

Hoai2 votes

Before, if Veigar survived till 6, he would start dominating an (ap) lane.

Now? If you try to harass your enemy with q, it won't be beneficial due to the loss of 2 possible AP and mana. Stun almost never lands since the meta is so focused around mobility creep, although the anti-dash somewhat helped, and W literally can't be landed unless you get E. Ult can't even zone people who are scared of being nukes anymore; its ratio went down quite a bit. Not to mention Veigar has no escape and is rather squishy and therefore vulnerable.

Sigma1171 votes

Pretty much this. The removal of DFG and the ratio nerf really killed his damage and the stun nerf on top of that is overdoing it.

I feel like they intended the Q to get more stacks than pre-nerf to compensate but if you played Veigar right you'd be getting nearly every minion with the Q anyway so there's no net gain there.

DeloricVI2 votes

As someone who picked up Veigar after the rework, I like his Q. I don't really have any trouble landing it, and it's only gotten better since Riot gave it a bit more range. I mean, seriously, I got a double kill off this thing. Thanks for the 14 stacks of AP! They did nerf the crap out of his stun, but it doesn't stop some people from running into it... A few times now, I was able to catch some champions like Yasuo and Ahri mid-dash. Whether I'm just lucky, or they're making poor decisions, it doesn't matter. It's also a way around Yasuo's wind wall, or can be enough to just shove enemies in one direction or another. Don't get me wrong... Riot made him really annoying to play as with this nerf, and I really think he needs some buffs to compensate or tweaks to his wall.

The worst part is... I agree with it being so difficult to dodge before just makes it so much more annoying to play against, and I know that they did it to make the game more fun for everyone else. Unfortunately, they made Veigar less fun to play. It's sad really. Poor Veigar.

Although, now that I think about it... it would be nice to maybe decrease the damage of the first hit, but have the second hit deal more damage, or stack more AP or something... That would be pretty neat, but you kind of have to be careful about that kind of thing when it comes to indefinitely scaling champions.... Some games I can accumulate over 700 HP with Sion, which is no laughing matter, and we all know why people hate Nasus so much. Overall, I feel like tweaks to Veigar are far from done coming out for a while. I'm sure with all this backlash, Riot probably has their own ideas for how to bring him back without making him as obnoxious as he was before.

DirtbagSlim2 votes

They tried to "duck-tape" a champ because they thought DFG made Veigar viable, which honestly, DFG was simply used for overkill. As a Veigar main, I don't know what to think anymore. He's a great champ, but that's just me in denial. After the DFG removal, I was murdering Ahris left and right because they assumed too much, but once that stun delay hit live servers... I just don't get why they even added a delay in the first place, they said the problem was that an enemy champion didn't know their position vs Event Horizon before the walls came up. There was an original .25 sec casting delay to begin with, they could have just added the circle animation during that cast time but no, they extended the delay because of "healthy gameplay".

Veigar can still be good because you can match up against some brain-dead players, but besides that its rougher then a sand-paper condom to play Veigar against decent players. Just do us a favor and rework Veigar from scratch, to be a dark, cosmic corrupting mage that can bully mobility like no other.

Auz the Ripper2 votes

I just find ironic that they do stuff like this in the name of their vaulted "Counterplay" and "Anti-fun" Then they do things like release Kalista

Elucious2 votes

The problem is that what we loved Veigar for and what Riot wants for Veigar are completely different.

Veigar was never supposed to be a "stun bot". Landing a 5-man stun in a crucial team-fight would mean guaranteed victory if the game was even or in their favor. They intended this more as a zoning tool, with the stun simply being a consequence of their over-extension. I don't even find this the worst of it, because a good Veigar player will still wreak havoc with the stuns.

The worst part is that Q. With his W and his E being quite a bit less reliable, his Q is his main source of keeping enemies at bay. Now honestly the only reliable damage ability he has is his ult, which as we all know has a monstrous CD. He just isn't as "bursty" as he used to be because if you don't land a stun, chances are you will only land his ult. In late-game cases this is still extremely effective, and team-fighting is still easy if you've got great positioning, but he's basically a sitting duck at any point in the game he's alone. Even more than he was before.

TotalJerk2 votes

He hits even harder, but he can hardly actually hit champions.

Daedalus8711 votes

The people who he did bad against, he now does worse.

Everyone else, he does better against.

lB2kGRlc8y1 votes

I can say he's better against nidalee ganks, past that, trying to engage an enemy in a creep wave is now suicide, as the q will most likely be soaked by minions.

Solidair31 votes

I've been having a better time. It's easier for me to harass with Q, especially against champions who have early threat against me, and at the end of the landing phase I have more AP on average than I used to, sometimes by a large margin.

I will say that without ganks I have found it much more difficult to kill my lane opponent 1 on 1. But when a gank does come, I am generally able to burst hard enough to exterminate the enemy.

The changes to his Event Horizon (the most recent ones) have been nice too, now that there is no escape... except by blinks.

GlYGAS1 votes

My biggest issue with the "rework" isn't even the change to Event Horizon (although that is a close second). It's with Baleful Strike.

It was nerfed.

Baleful Strike used to be able to stabilize or even bully lane opponents due to it's targeted nature. You won't be getting better value out of hitting 2 enemies because it can both be dodged, and the bonus AP isn't extremely relevant in laning. I would rather have +150 AP lategame and not be able to miss AND actually be a threat in lane than have +300 and be a limping scrod in lane.

I earnestly believe if they revert Baleful Strike, either revert Event Horizon or set it to have .3 delay with warning indicator, and unnerf Primoridal Burst, every Veigar player would be satisfied and it would not be overpowering.

As it stands there's no reason to pick Veigar over another champion. Even though he's been my favorite champion since season 1, I can't justify picking him over Xerath, Ahri, or LeBlanc.

Rinky Dinky1 votes

Laning phase is worse, Lategame is better

Midgame is better depending on how lane went.

MaizeCraze1 votes

Depends on your point of view mostly.

Those who still rely on E to deal damage to enemy champs will undoubtedly still say that it is a horrible change and it makes him unplayable. I see the E change as removing basically a 2.5 second insta-stun from 1025 units away, which is pretty freaking toxic.

What I do in lane (to great success) is to use W+Q combo on the melee minions to get two easy farm and the aa for the third. This opens up the field for me hitting a champion with Q. From my experience, the enemy laner doesn't expect the speed nor the length of Q to dodge it, especially when they go in for last hits and have no minion protection (because I killed them with the W+Q combo).

The Q change rewards Veigar for positioning well and making intellegent decisions. I don't know about you, but for me, mechanically outperforming your opponent to get ahead is what makes the laning phase fun and exciting.

Lord Malice1 votes

Veigar lost his utility, therefore his lane phase is worse than it was before. And it wasn't good, the stun just allowed Veigar to stay in lane until he could start winning trades. Now he has no way to win the trades, but he does have the ability to stay in lane without his stun. His kit was and is still centred around his utility. Without it he only functions when his opponent makes a mistake. Imagine if Lee Sin's Q path was lit up before he shot it and it had a .75 sec delay on it's cast, how often would he land it then? Only when ppl didn't move, or only when they made a mistake. Veigar also lost his "fun" because of that.

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