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"Group and we win"

Lost R··2 votes·405 views

I am tired of pointing this out. Literally every game I am in, literally everyone tries to force a teamfight, even when we have absolutely no business doing so, even when it's the dumbest thing we can do, even when there are a quintillion better things to do. Grouping is NOT an instant win condition at all times just because you think so! Because anything YOU can think applies just as much to the enemy team!

If your ADC is massively fed, yet you don't have any peeling power, guess who the enemy team is going to focus first? If you are nothing but ADCs and assassins and the enemy team has crowd stuns and crowd damage, guess what you shouldn't be doing?

Yet every game, the exact same thing happens EXACTLY as I predict down to the minute movements of individual champions, and no one can get it through their fucking skulls. Teamfights are not the absolute end all be all to this game, no matter how much you want it to be, no matter how much you want those pentakills. Sometimes grouping up loses more games than winning them.

14 Comments

SwiftKitten882 votes

i 100% agree, and yet it seems just as often. our team could have won the game if we simply grouped as 5 and pushed mid after ONLY their support was left alive and they had 40 second spawn timers. but my team decides to send 3 people to elder drag.. me and the jungler end up pushing their base takign out their inhib turret the inhib and one of the nexus turrets. the 3 people at elder drag all get executed and start blaming the jungler for not helping. and thier team respawns and kills us as he are 2 hits way from killing the last nexus turret. and then proceed to walk towards our nexus which died before any of them even got there because super minions were in our base the whole time

i mean.. IT'S GOOD THING WE DIDN'T ALL GROUP MID... to end the game.

its sure seems like not mater what the situation requires, you get teammates who choose the wrong thing

i mean there was TWO wrong choices and a right one

  1. push mid and win the game
  2. try to save the base
  3. go execute to elder drag??

i mean i can at least understand if you choose option 2. even if it was the wrong choice. but... WHY THE HELL WOULD YOU PICK OPTION 3???? [zombie-brand-facepalm]

Lost R1 votes

Obviously if the entire enemy team is dead, bum rushing the enemy turrets is a wise idea. That being said, if other turrets are being contested by your minions, it's also a wise idea to split up to push them as well, doubly so if their inhibitors are exposed. An ADC on their own can take down an inhibitor without a minion line, so the only thing he has to worry about is the enemy team. If they're dead, he has nothing to worry about and he should double down on smashing that inhibitor.

It's all highly contextual, though, so people have to think on their feet every game and gauge every factor in real time as they're moving about doing things. Most can barely do just one of those things; I'm always thinking, though, so I can't NOT think about everything.

RogueWill1 votes

I mainly play tanks so.... for me grouping seems the best option always. There is nothing a tank can achieve on its own since they can't take down structures fast enough nor take dragons or baron by themselves. Additionally they have really bad duelist capabilities

Lost R1 votes

What people never consider are things like split pushing. Have one or more players act as a diversion while the rest of the team engage a higher priority target. Push bot lane while the rest of the team goes for baron. Push top lane while the rest of the team goes for dragon. Feint the enemy team into engaging the entire team while a fast moving assassin or ADC busts down their back door.

The tanks should group up with whoever they can; smaller groups of two and three work to keep people safe, but groups of five become clumsy and unwieldy, and unless you have good crowd control or peeling power, the enemy team is just going to zip right past you and go for the ADC and assassins.

Calabok1 votes

jeez group and fight 5v5 to win? what boulderdash!

Lewd Neeko1 votes

I mostly see people say this when some individuals keep getting caught out and dying. So, like, it's not like they're just grouping for the sake of team-fighting, they're grouping to keep that one person alive. Though I can see your point.

Lost R1 votes

I find a more acceptable solution is to give the enemy a reason to shoot at you instead of a more valuable target. I've made entire teams chase me around the Rift like a cheesy Benny Hill montage for over a minute, burning ults and summoner spells alike in an attempt to kill me. Can you imagine the kind of damage an ADC can do with a minute long diversion?

A Basic Island1 votes

ikr? There are just certain comps where 5v5 fights are insanely hard

Alot of games i lose are due to poke and clear type comps. We push to their tower 5v5, they clear wave after wave throwing skill shots, evetually one hits or we get poked down and then BAM 5v5 fight lost

like, when EVERY fight ends up lke that, maybe, JUST MAYBE, grouping isn't the answer and split pushing is

Lost R1 votes

That's exactly what happened last game. I got very fed as Twitch, but everyone insisted on teamfighting even though the entire enemy team would just flash past them and simultaneously ult me, and no, Guardian's Angel wouldn't have helped. Not with the amount of firepower they were willing to invest.

Despite getting two barons, the Elder Dragon and all the inhibitors, we ended up losing because the entire team simply refused to push anything and demanded a teamfight, even when I pointed out that all the enemy team was doing every fight previously was flashing past all of them and ulting me.

But these are concepts too many people are literally incapable of comprehending, even after they have seen it happen in real time more times than you can possibly count.

Scary Door1 votes

Conversely, there are people that never group with the team while the enemy team is always working together.

I mean, sure, I know it's neat to get 1000 stacks on Nasus, but at some point you need to do something other than farm and split push.

Grouping may not always be the right answer, but it is certainly more often the winning strategy than "just do whatever and we'll win or something".

Lost R1 votes

I always have a plan in mind. I'm never just flying off the cuff. The problem is trying to communicate those thoughts through speech to people who will refuse to listen for one reason or another, much less texts or pings.

Calabok1 votes

you lost because your team couldn't peel for you in the teamfight.

Lost R1 votes

I know. I knew I was the most dangerous champion on our team, and they already demonstrated that they were more than willing to invest absolutely everything into killing me, and I knew that we didn't have the appropriate peeling power to deal with them, and I warned our team that grouping up was the worst possible thing we could do. But no, my protests were ignored and everything played out exactly as I said it would.

If I had it my way, I would have split pushed into the enemy base, mow down one of their inhibitors after warding a second one so Shyvana could teleport in as the enemy team responded to my backdooring. I would lead them away from where Shyvana would teleport in, where she would take the second inhibitor.

It's not a complex plan to conjure up. Risky, yes, but a hell of a lot better than trying to teamfight when we had almost no peeling power to speak of, and the ADC was the most dangerous and vulnerable player, AND trying to do so in the past resulted in abject failure, REPEATEDLY, even when the odds were tipped in our favor.

Calabok1 votes

I assure you, your scenario is not uncommon in this game. Millions of games are played everyday and it happens A LOT. So take it with a grain of salt, for it will never stop.

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