Move Mordekaiser top

LatetotheRace·Dec 19, 2015·26 votes·1,687 views

I'm finding it harder and harder to win games as Mordekaiser ADC, because of this new marksmen overhaul. He's really out of place now, and due to his incredible lack of cc or gap closer, it's incredibly hard to even contest with mobile annoying harass marksmen. Please PLEASE make Mordekaiser a top laner, with a change to his kit to make him more similar to what he used to be, rather than what he is now.

(Remember if we do this, you'll never have to deal with Mordekaiser bottom ever again :O)

EDIT: Reduce his damage scaling and base, but increase his tankyness. He was created to be a tank, and he should stay a tank.

46 Comments

Malicious MetalDec 19, 201514 votes

They shouldn't move him top but rather balance him as a champion and not based on a damn duo lane.

He should be able to roll Top, Mid, Duo and in extreme cases even Jungle if he so desired. It's just that balancing him as a duo laner makes him way too gimmicky :/

YumaS2AstralDec 19, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Malicious Metal,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0RArInJU,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-12-19T21:00:46.368+0000)

They shouldn't move him top but rather balance him as a champion and not based on a damn duo lane.

He should be able to roll Top, Mid, Duo and in extreme cases even Jungle if he so desired. It's just that balancing him as a duo laner makes him way too gimmicky :/

Honestly I would just balance him for solo lane and not care about how he would work in duo lane. I don't even know why Riot had such idea on the first place, and there are many melees that have the potential to work much better as duo laners.

Malicious MetalDec 19, 20153 votes

Welp, we gotta find a middle ground with riot seeing that they try so desperately to make duo lane kaiser work. Balancing as a champ is more general than based on a single position but I'd agree to balance him as a solo lane Juggernaut.

UTIDAWADec 19, 20154 votes

I would rather see him be balanced as a "solo" laner and not to a dedicated lane like top or mid. The reason is the last time we had a jack of all trades ( Kayle ) that can go into both duo and solo lanes they had to be nerfed in accordance with their jack of all trades nature.

WookieJesuzDec 19, 20151 votes

is duo laning with him botlane fun or is it more fun being solo-lane

Malicious MetalDec 19, 20153 votes

I prefer playing top as it's more of a one on one brawling where your own smarts and skill matters.

Also being poked from 500+ range by two champions sucks. There's a reason top laners despise top lane mages and Adc's

Edit; It is fun if you're duo with a friend who knows how to play with a Morde

NineTailedMysticDec 19, 20151 votes

pls not mid, just top.

chipndip1Dec 19, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Malicious Metal,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0RArInJU,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-12-19T21:00:46.368+0000)

They shouldn't move him top but rather balance him as a champion and not based on a damn duo lane.

He should be able to roll Top, Mid, Duo and in extreme cases even Jungle if he so desired. It's just that balancing him as a duo laner makes him way too gimmicky :/

Why not? Blitz's entire identity is based on the out-dated double bruiser bot lane meta, and he's still at it years later. Since there's 3 lanes, 1 jungle, and 5 players, there's ALWAYS gonna be a duo lane somewhere. Now Morde just sucks at everything since his balancing's a mess.

Could have just properly balanced him for duo laning.

KnightOfEloHellDec 20, 20151 votes

I always bring the Mace when ai have blurz supp. He is the BEST supp for Mord, especcially if Blitz has Bond of Stone.

Never lose

Silents429Dec 20, 20151 votes

The only way they can accomplish this is to give him the Sion/Poppy level rework. It's damn near impossible to preserve his current kit and keep it balanced.

KnightOfEloHellDec 20, 20151 votes

I personally love his kit. It's soooooooo nice. You know how many times Ive gotten doubles at almost no health? 2 heals, a shield... And an OP Q when you buy attack speed items and Rylias.

Always shield Never die Mordekaiser es numero uno

Silents429Dec 20, 20151 votes

It doesn't matter if you like it, it's still unbalanced.

Backup4nowDec 20, 20151 votes

"In extreme cases even Jungle"

lol. Jungle is his best roll atm.

MunchCrunchLunchDec 19, 20154 votes

morde is pretty op late game but yeah he doesn't belong to bot lane.

Malicious MetalDec 19, 20153 votes

That's Juggernauts in a nutshell. They become this lethal mix of damage and durability the longer the game goes on.

Big LincolnDec 19, 20153 votes

old mord was just as bad

Remlap1223Dec 20, 20153 votes

No. Old Morde was nowhere near the level of bullshit cheese that "ADC" Mordekaiser was.

Big LincolnDec 20, 20151 votes

yes it was, are you kidding?

getting ERQ'd into instant death was awful to play against. It was even worse when DFG was still around

Remlap1223Dec 20, 20152 votes

Except that back when he had his old kit, when facing him in lane he wasn't 2-3 levels above you because of an unfair XP advantage, and all the bonus stats, abilities, and raw power that came with it.

He can, or at least could do the exact same thing in his new kit, only it had even less counterplay. Poke him down? Pft, good luck with that since he's tanky, resourceless, and has 2 levels worth of defensive stats above you. Engage on him? Pft, good luck with that since he has ungodly sustain, and he'd kill you with those two levels worth of offensive stats above you. Play safe? Pft, good luck with that since he's just going to have his support dive you under the tower while he WRQE's you to death when you're only level 4, and takes your tower.

There was some modem of counterplay against old Mordekaiser early game in solo lane. There was none to "ADC" Mordekaiser. This is a non-debate.

Big LincolnDec 20, 20151 votes

"early game"

pre-level 4? because by then Mordekaiser would make sure every E that eats his health bar hits you and the minion wave, making trading impossible

E tagged you even if you weren't in it when it actually went active because of its hit detection, so you could dash or flash out and still eat shit. It also had more range, so did R, had a higher base, and his Q didn't require sticking around for 3 hits.

AD bot Mordekaiser had infinitely more counterplay on account of having to stay long enough to get his damage off; he lacked this counterplay because he often duo laned with someone who engaged for him.

Old Mordekaiser had absolutely nothing. He was a brick wall of stats who'd check you every time you got near him. terrible design; I'm not surprised Riot is keen not to let him back into solo lanes until they can come up with something better.

and before you go "oh you just suck vs him," he was my most played champion out of ranked for about a year and a half

sp441Dec 20, 20156 votes

New Morde is worse, because not only does he have the exact same problems, but he's incredibly unsatisfying to play as, since his abilities are very conditional and lack impact save for his third Q.

Big LincolnDec 20, 20151 votes

his abilities have always lacked impact outside of raw numbers

it's just now that those numbers are low (on his E) that people really feel how bad they feel

KnightOfEloHellDec 20, 20151 votes

I up e early in solo lane, capitilize on heals and always shield.

Timinggggg

KnightOfEloHellDec 20, 20151 votes

Unsatisfying? I think he is super satisfying. I tend to carry hard, even as Mord top.

Nashors Rylias Guinsoos Deadmans/SV(situational) Swifties Liandys

Silents429Dec 20, 20152 votes

Move Mordekaiser top

Okay how?

Preserving his identity how are they going to make him top lane again without him being an unfun broken pile of metal?

LatetotheRaceDec 20, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Okay how?

Preserving his identity how are they going to make him top lane again without him being an unfun broken pile of metal?

So they said he's suppose to be a juggernaut, but I think being more of a tank suits him. Reduce the damage from his q, and maybe add a bit to his e. But in overall lower his scaling and overall damage, but make it to where his fill quicker, from abilities. That would shift him to a Tahm-esque shield, but without much damage along side it.

UTIDAWADec 20, 20151 votes

You can't lower his scalings on his current kit without making him grossly underpowered. Mordekaiser has pitiful base MS, no CC or movement based skills, and his passive scales directly with how much damage he does. He can't function as a tank with low scalings because he has no CC to compensate. You say that his skills should fill up his passive more with this lower damage output, but that would mean his passive would have to have a much higher ratio of damage to shield. Exactly what kind of % do you think his shield should scale from his damage? This kit can't function as a tank kit no matter how you tweak the numbers because tanks are generally more than JUST raw stats.

Silents429Dec 20, 20152 votes

But if he has no damage then what good is he? He has no CC, how is he suppose to lane if he can't deal any damage?

KnightOfEloHellDec 20, 20151 votes

AS= nice q burst

Run mobility early That means boots and have ghost

Silents429Dec 20, 20151 votes

Okay ghost and boots never help out when you are being kited and CC'ed.

The OP also opted to lower his damage further, his Q isn't going to be bursting.

KnightOfEloHellDec 21, 20151 votes

Well, I tend to grab Nashors, Swtfties, and Rylias, so kiting is only an issue when A) it's early game, before I have Rylias, or B) if said kiting champion is insanely fed and I have not gotten my core.

For example, Ahri, Yasuo, and Kalista. They can all hop around me, and do nice amounts of damage, it if I land just ONE ability for the Rylias slow, they are pretty much done for. My Q hits fast because of my AS build, does godly damage with my mixed damage, and by capitlizing on both of my heals, I kill the champs who would normally kite me. The AS helps shield generation from q, AP for everything, AD for autos and stronger Q. Rylias and boots for speed. Deadmans optional, very nice to have

Yasuo is easy to lane against as Mord

Arhi.. Faced a super fed Ahri, I kept ALMOST killing her, she was insanley fed; I normally don't have an issue with her

Even Yi, my build can take on devourer Yi, as long as(again) he's not super fed. Every champ is OP when fed.

Since Mords early is pretty risky, I play super safe till six.

I think it's all about timing, positioning, and more timing.

Mordekaiser es numero uno

Silents429Dec 21, 20151 votes

Great?

Do you know how balance works or not?

KnightOfEloHellDec 21, 20151 votes

I have a feeling people see "balance" diffrently.

I see it like this:

Mord has awful base health because of the health he gets from dragon, and stats from ghosted enemies, as well as the damage output Mord gives. More importantly, Mordekaiser has a shield, so a tanky Mord with high damage output with 2 heals will have little counterplay, and would be close to impossible to kill 1 vs. 1.

He has 325 movespeed because he is so powerful and has a strong q; if he was quick, he'd have to have his q nerfed, or else he'd be running rampant destroying all things. (This is why I get mobility asap on him, huehue)

To give sone fairness back to how low his base defensive stats are, he has two heals: w and R. These are NICE heals, and when done correctly make it pretty difficult yo kill a Mordekaiser, even if he's on the ropes.

Mordekaiser's late game is powerful, so his early is weak to compensate, and give the opposing laner a chance.

Sure Mord is slow and squishy, but he has many things to compensate. 2 heals, a shield from damaging with abilities, stat boost from ghosts, massive damage output, can turn around a teamfight for the better, can HEAL ALLIES, and is great for pushing objectives.

Also, his solo w is castable on minions again for DoT in a solo lane next patch. The last tweaks for him included giving more even 3 Q( now you can kill with 2 q, not just 3, huehue), e shield generation scales with rank, and coming soon to LoL Mord can cast solo w on minions and his shield degeneration rate is lowered. Awwww yeah.

KnightOfEloHellDec 21, 20151 votes

I mean that's Morde's thing. He has no cc, and is very slow, but deals insane damage.

What you do with him is up to you. I know what works for me when I play him.

I figure the only way to play a good Mord is to be able to get as much damage out as possible if an enemy is within my range, and have JUST enough health to survive with my shield.

KILL OR BE KILLED: "YOUR SICKNESS SUSTAINS ME"

For me anyways, a good Mord is unstoppable late game and cannot ne ignored, while early he is terribly weak. Soooo, ya just play safe early, focus cs and safly poke! Rely on shield early, than once you have power, go for q. But man, early ya gotta play safe.

Mord is really item reluant, so cs is a must. Ward to survive ganks. Run ghost at least to move outta the way and still survive bad situations. I like ghost and flash, but on this account I like ghost and heal. Mord has low health and mobilty, so a slight boost in speed and a third healbis very nice.

FUN FACTS ABOUT MORD:

ult gives a long ass Rylias slow

-ult procs ludens multiple times from one cast

-each Q grants 3 Guinsoos stacks because its an AA AND an ability, so you have all 8 stacks if you land 3 Qs.

-High AS and CDR grants Mord rapid burst and a reliable shield. OP.

-movespeed or some form of stickyness must be built early( Rylias, boots, deadmans). Think about it, early movespeed lets you doge skillshots. Doging skillshots OP.

-Mordekaiser es numero uno

Speed kaiser: Rylias, Deadmans, Alacrity Swifties, Lich bane, Nashors, Guinsoos

Feed early Carry game Godkaiser: Nashors, alactity/distortion swifties, Guinsoos, Rylias, Deadmans/WotA/SV, BoRK/Liandrys.

Lord of Spell Vamp: WotA, Gunblade/Rylias, Deadmans, alactity swifties, SV, Nashors

KnightOfEloHellDec 20, 20151 votes

Instead of tank juggernaut, run him as movespeed and attack speed juggernaut.. Its reallllllyyyyyyyyy nice.

Mixed damage AS Bruiser Mord es numero uno

Feed early Carry game

KnightOfEloHellDec 21, 20151 votes

But noone listens to me

Everyone thinks Mord is really bad for some reason

He's really not, I promise

AyRe CoNteMpTDec 19, 20151 votes

its funny that you ever found it not hard to win games as mordekaiser "adc"

KnightOfEloHellDec 19, 20151 votes

You can already take Mord top. I do it all the time, and I tend to carry hard. Play safe early, destroy mid and late.

CORE: Nashors Rylias Guinsoos Swifty alacrity

BeldairDec 19, 20151 votes

I do Mord support. Actually did ok when our jungler would actually gank and not let Skarner have free reign of bot.

SpoofghoulDec 19, 20151 votes

pfft

why cant morde just go where he pleases why restrict champions to lanes O.O

l Helios lDec 19, 20151 votes

As long as Morde has the Dragon ghost ability he will probably need to be bot/mid/jg to make the most use of it. Otherwise it had the potential to be a non-factor until after laning phase, which can kind of hurt the Dragon's purpose in taking towers.

Adrian UmbraDec 20, 20151 votes

I would agree that Riot needs to allow him to top lane again, as shoving him bot was a mistake in the first place. However, Mordekaiser never was and never will be a tank. Why? Simple. He has almost no utility. No CC. No ability to protect people. No ability to really initiate. He is a durable bruiser who deals tons of damage at close range and should be treated as such.

He needs better base stats, including some actual movement speed. The ability to use his W on his own minions. A Q that's not just good for a third-hit-burst. Good thing they've been working on that (check the PBE).

GenHeroDec 20, 20151 votes

how about we bring him back mid where he belongs?

LatetotheRaceDec 21, 20151 votes

Making him a mage was the exact problem that happened when they stuck him bottom. They shifted from his tank to massive damage, which is exactly what would happen if he was suppose to go mid.

SpongebobIsLifeDec 21, 20151 votes

it'll be awhile before any actual morde work is done. Riot admitted that they dropped the ball on him hard and admit that they need to rework him again, but it'll be a long ways down the road before they do so. They are also steadfast on making him work bot lane.

LatetotheRaceDec 21, 20151 votes

They could probably throw him back to his old build to satisfy people for a bit. But then again, he'd probably lose top too.