I feel useless as a Mage when the enemy team comp has more than one tank

koshkyra·Aug 18, 2017·7 votes·773 views

Lets say this is the enemy team comp:

(this is a pretty standard comp)

Lets say im playing one of these mages:

Now lets see, what are my options?

Well, can just buy hexdrinker+black cleaver and then they basically cant die to me, and theyre too mobile for me to catch in the first place (plus if i go near them ill get oneshot)

And will just hide under so i have 0 kill potential on them also

And lets not pretend that mages even have an effect on

So now what am i supposed to do? Buy support items and be a secondary support? I just feel like mages have no kill potential in this current meta. Give AP some love, riot.

31 Comments

AFilthyCaitMainAug 18, 20177 votes

Its almost like tanks counter burst. hmm...

koshkyraAug 18, 20171 votes

I said "mage", not "burst"

And i dont think Tristana Lulu Khazix Pantheon are tanks, so i shouldnt have no kill potential on them

sit kidAug 18, 20171 votes

Azir AurelionSol Cassiopeia Karthus Ryze Viktor

You realize when not all mages are burst mages only

ExecutionerAug 18, 20171 votes

I just wanna know why he would play LB into a tank comp.

koshkyraAug 18, 20171 votes

this isnt a tank comp

Galio Tristana Pantheon Lulu Khazix

And i said ONE of the mages, not lb. Karma is nowhere near a burst mage.

RalanrAug 18, 20171 votes

But Karma does have utility to fall back on to frustrate and cock block the enemy. Roots and shields mainly.

Tank Karma would have fucked that comp up imo.

Mig89Aug 18, 20171 votes

yep

ExecutionerAug 19, 2017

No, but either way, why would you want to ever play a LB into that comp. Karma would be better, lux and ahri would be better, but not much better.

WitchQueen AnnieAug 18, 20176 votes

And assassins do better?????

At least with a mage I can still stand back and poke/waveclear with unlimited AOE.

PhantomGGAug 18, 20175 votes

[{quoted}](name=Vlad Maine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0Ede2bLN,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2017-08-18T04:14:57.180+0000)

And assassins do better?????

At least with a mage I can still stand back and poke/waveclear with unlimited AOE.

my thoughts exactly, the team comp the OP presented literally tells zed "well I can't play the game anymore"

MizayaAug 18, 20172 votes

item 3193 item 3190 could probably absorb 3x Karthus ult if timed right, I tested it on Gragas and got a 2.5k shield, you just have to time it right because it decays fast. So that already nullifies big burst AoE ults like Ziggs.

Then you have item 3194 , just incase they had a DPS mage.

Tanks just have everything to deal with mages now, is what it seems like.

BańgAug 18, 20172 votes

i feel useless as a melee bruiser vs janna/lulu any fucking tank with point and click cc and exhaust.

not going to bitch tho because thats the meta right now.

ap champs not number 1 for 1 patch isnt the end of the world :)

Packun FlowerAug 18, 20171 votes

As an annie player. I never hesitate to get item 3135 item 3151 if they have even one tank. Dont doubt them especially. With them i can burst most tanks down to 1/3 hp.

They work for me so maybe they will work for you to.

koshkyraAug 18, 20172 votes

Its not just the tanks that are a problem Imo

Its how people become immune to mages without even going out of their build paths with current itemization

ADCS= item 3046 item 3812 item 3072 item 3155 all fine choices for ADCs and they esch have anti-burst passives

Assassins= item 3071 item 3155 item 3814 (to resist an abilify)

Packun FlowerAug 18, 20171 votes

Aye tis true. I can kill tanks easier then ADCs or Assassins sadly.

ExecutionerAug 18, 20172 votes

Not many ADC actually build PD, and PD. A few yes get the item, however a majority dont get it. If it's super late game, I can see them selling the boots and actually getting one of those items. However most of the time in a ADC build you wont see a PD, DD, Hexdrinker, unless they sell the boots to actually buy one of those items. Also the shield for BT is only 350 at max level. One poking spell, and its gone.

Vanic998Aug 18, 20171 votes

I'm glad I play Velkoz , the true damage Mage.

RainXBladeAug 18, 20171 votes

Stuff like this is why I play Malz and other battle mages, where it doesn't matter how much HP a tank has. I'll just build Liandry's, place my DoT and watch as the tank's HP burns away.

Well, most of the time this works, but you guys here get the point about how Hexdrinker and tanks right now are too strong. Even I agree with this.

AbyssphereAug 18, 20171 votes

Your problem is the belief that you should be expecting to kill people easily with the champions you've listed. LeBlanc has no kill threat on basically anyone late game except maybe mages. You give up the right to blow people up consistently when you pick her. Ahri has been countered by a single MR item/sizeable shield for a long time - her season 5 rework gutted her burst in order to give her excessive safety. Karma even when built AP is not supposed to be a kill threat - she builds AP primarily to amplify her shield and waveclear. The only one of those that should be expecting to reliably kill people is Lux and unsurprisingly she's by far the champion best equipped to deal with that enemy team. She's the only one with any sort of kill threat through Locket and Lulu peel, and she has enough damage that a small chunk of MR doesn't invalidate her.

If you want a mage that can burst through tankiness then just pick different ones. You cannot complain about being weak to MR/shields/heals when playing champions like LeBlanc and Ahri. Also, learn to do things except try to one-shot people. If you're picking Karma mid and you think you're useless because you can't kill the enemy easily then you are completely missing the point of the pick.

koshkyraAug 18, 20171 votes

Can you point out where i said "i cannot oneshot them so therefore ap is weak"?

No. I said kill potential, which is different from oneshotting. I am not "missing the point of the pick".

I Love ThreshAug 18, 20171 votes

AP is pretty trash atm, waiting on that hexdrinker nerf still... But Riot loves to trash burst mages and other AP champs lol.

RalanrAug 18, 20171 votes

AP usually has more utility to fall back on in these situations.

Sometimes you don't need to be the carry.

Mig89Aug 18, 20171 votes

This. Sometimes providing utility is more important to winning a game than doing damage. Ive recently started playing orianna and I know if im behind the movespeed from w or the displacement from the ulti can be game changing if they do 0 damage. Syndra can stun a whole team

Funkin DunkinAug 18, 20171 votes

item 3151 item 3020 = 30 magic pen item 3135 = 35% magic pen

You don't have options?

koshkyraAug 18, 20172 votes

You're right, that will totally help me against the 250 mr nautilus, thanks! He'll be down to a low total of (wait for it...) 132 mr after those 3 items! (one of which is a niche item that is almost never built.)

And 132 mr is only like 60% magic reduction so yeah, totally, ill be able to kill him!

Nvm he has 4200 max health also

Scary DoorAug 18, 20171 votes

Going to have to agree with the OP on this one. If this were a post written in Season 1 or 2 I'd laugh out loud at how ridiculous it is, but the landscape of the game has changed to the point where mages are decent against carries but a great big plate of hot garbage against anything that's not a carry (especially a "tank" ... even one with just a couple of MR items).

The slow erosion of power with regard to mages has been evident for a few seasons now, the romoval of DFG was the beginning, but the reworking of mage items (and the MYMU of Season 6) made some members of the class practically irrrelevant against any sort of MR, particularly tanks.

Changes to (and general lowering of AP) on many items such as Rylais, Rod of Ages, Zhonyas, Athene's Unholy Grail, Abyssal Scepter, etc have had a general decrease in the power that mages carry.

SOLUTIONS:

Add some AP (raw power) to a few items
Give mages more magic pen options---I don't get why AD champs have so many armor pen/lethality options for more reliable damage while mages have fewer options for generally harder to land rotations/damage patterns.
Introduce at least a couple of new AP items (perhaps at least one that has 100-120 AP).

RalanrAug 18, 20171 votes

On magic pen: simply put mages in general are not designed to be damage threats to tanks. Yes you have dps mages, but they are intended to work based on how they do damage not on how much pen they build.

AD has more because the adc is primarily built to kill tanks and assassins need pen to kill squishies faster. ADCs used to not gain MR per level so more Magic pen back then would be ridiculous.