Being good in the meta does not mean the champion shouldn't get nerfed

Rock MD··8 votes·5,137 views

Title. Fact of the matter is that if a champion is too good, it'll block out other picks from being played and nobody will rotate metas because that champion/subset of champions will remain too good.

Are there limitations? Yes. Unless a champion is pulling hotfix-worthy numbers, it's probably worth waiting a patch (in League time, so about 2 weeks) to see if anything changes. If after 2 weeks the meta doesn't adapt and evolve, then it's a good idea to look at the champion.

Look at how the champion is thriving. There are 2 different ways a champion can get strong. The first is through circumventing a key weakness in the champion. For example, E max double Doran's Zz'Rot Nasus (when it was a thing) circumvented his weak early game by guaranteeing hard shove and 10 cs/min to get him farmed up enough for mid-game skirmishes. The other is through accentuating strengths, such as Athene's + season 4 artillery champions (Ziggs, Xerath, and yes old Gragas was an artillery mage too. It was gross). Again, unless the numbers are hotfix-worthy, a meta that accentuates strengths is probably not that bad (in my defense for mentioning s4, Athene's was pretty hotfix worthy). It means you'll be playing champions that like these changes and so a lot of the picks that counter them that don't use that meta won't be seen. That's just how these meta abusing champions appear so dominant.

The real issue is circumventing weaknesses. Champions need real weaknesses or they end up being ever-present picks that are just too good against the rest due to their generalist nature and nothing else becomes worth picking.

So if this criteria is met, it's usually a good idea to look at nerfs for the champion, even if it's "just the meta."

17 Comments

Frosted Tips1 votes

I would also like to add two things:

  1. If you are good in all metas you probably are not healthy.
  2. If you are safe and easy then being good at all levels of play is unhealthy.
KlydeFrog1 votes

Soooo mumu udyr are op then?

Frosted Tips1 votes

Unhealthy is different then OP also they do not meet either requirement I described.

KlydeFrog1 votes

Umm both are safe easy to play and op. Nonstop cc thats aoe.

Frosted Tips1 votes

then being good at all levels of play

They are missing that important part.

KlydeFrog1 votes

Umm bro they are easy to play have aoe cc they both do a lot if damage. Wtf are you talking abour

Weedlayer1 votes

Amumu is hot garbage at reasonably high elo, he is too ult reliant and vulnerable to early invades/skirmishes. Udyr is an interesting case as he's kitable and so vulnerable in coordinated team fights (a reason you never see him in pro play), but manages to be strong even in plat+ solo queue due to his other strengths (like invading and objective control), though he seems to fall out of popularity in high diamond-challenger. I think toning down his damage and giving him more survivability might moderate his balance somewhat, but it'd be hard to do in a meaningful way without just turning him into another tank. He probably just needs a rework.

º Lamb calls º1 votes

{quoted}

Umm both are safe easy to play and op. Nonstop cc thats aoe.

The only AOE CC Amu has is tied to an ult, his Q is single target, and his ult only stops movement/auto attacks, there's also the lengthy cool down early on. As for Udyr, he only has a single target stun that can't even be reapplied to the same target for a short while. Anytime Udyr is even dominant it is for a completely different reason, and many times consist of him not even fighting champions.

KlydeFrog1 votes

Tiamat makes bear stance aoe stun

KlydeFrog1 votes

Bro meta is not champs its items. Most efficient tatical advantage. For instance its meta to start dorans ring on varus and start w. Why because its efficient and makes him do more damage early on

Frosted Tips1 votes

Champions can be Meta by those standards. Camille is really strong top and jungle so picking Camille is Meta.

KlydeFrog1 votes

Thats default thats every champ in the game

Frosted Tips1 votes

At different times they are meta so yes every champion can be meta but not al at once.

KlydeFrog1 votes

Every champ is good at all times.

haaaaaaalp1 votes

I don't even know why people are so afraid of overnerfing. If a champion gets nerfed and then falls out of the meta, you can always buff them again. I would rather something be underpowered than overpowered.

Weedlayer1 votes

Sure, this is obviously true. But riot doesn't really nerf champions without them being strong for at least 2 patches (unless they're hotfix worthy), so I don't see the issue? Recently nerfed champions, like garen, have been strong for months now, and win rate data demonstrates this.

Rock MD1 votes

{quoted}

Sure, this is obviously true. But riot doesn't really nerf champions without them being strong for at least 2 patches (unless they're hotfix worthy), so I don't see the issue? Recently nerfed champions, like garen, have been strong for months now, and win rate data demonstrates this.

This isn't in response to the Garen nerfs. This was brought on by me seeing a post about Eve not needing nerfs because the meta just suits her even though she's been a top tier pick in KR for a while now.

I'm in the camp that Eve is a lot better than people realize so... yeah.

I just thought it'd be better to post it here since it's a standalone thought that could apply to a number of champions atm

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