Jungle itemization could use a sweeping rework

Shadow Hazard··1 votes·947 views

For a long time now junglers have been given increasing amount of power to be more relevant, and able to to have better carry potential rather than being mobile equivalent of gold/exp starved supports. Nothing wrong with being relevant but it is a widely discussed point that junglers way too relevant, are hitting their big item powerspike probably earlier than any other lane. In the early game there is a very large discrepancy between the success of junglers by their ability to farm the jungle and that needs to be addressed for those on the lower end then the ones on the higher end can be properly addressed.

The best way to go about doing a sweeping change like this is from the jungle items since there are core problems for every jungle item right now. Talisman is flat out better than machete, with the sustain to damage ratio in comparison between the 2 if you do the math talisman is actually the better overall choice for having a healthier overall clear, which is an important point considering raptors will maul you if you dont have a health camp clear.


Talisman on a single monster camp will regen at least 5 health/s machete: The average attack damage of most junglers (taken from the list of junglers on champion.gg) is 57.49633, with most of them sitting at 0.625 base attack speed both values slightly different depending on if you run attack speed or AD runes. Most monsters in the early clear will have about 15 armor netting about 86.96 physical damage reduction turning that average AD into about 50 AD at 0.625 attack speed you are netted with about 31.25 physical damage/s and an effective life steal of 3.125 health back per second. That means that in even in single monster camp scenario's talisman is better for it's sustain by a noticeable margin and in any camp that has more than one monster that difference becomes pretty staggering. Again with the 25 on hit magic damage for the base standard attack speed nets most junglers 15.625 on hit damage. Picking talisman you sacrifice about 1/3 the damage for 60% greater regen on single targets that increases notably if you have even one AoE skill to use on the AoE camps, most specifically raptors the camp known to maul the machete start junglers. Now you have numbers behind why talisman is the overall better option for junglers to have a healthier overall clear. better single unit camp sustain = talisman better single unit camp damage = machete better multi unit camp sustain = talisman better multi unit camp damage = talisman The best overall way to target buff machete in my opinion will be to look at improving it's sustain.


Warrior is doing too well as a stat stick for AD champs and unlike the other jungle items there is no encouragement or reward for building more of it, so there are many cases of champs simply opting out for getting anymore after and building fully defensively after but not losing out nearly as hard or frankly at all compared to the other jungle types for not building the main stat. Cinderhulk was in a pretty healthy state for a while until CoC came out, now these champs are also in the too snowbally too early group like many other higher end junglers right now. Runic echo's is in an odd spot in that it is most preferable on some AP junglers and some of them preferred runeglave effect more, and it is still in a spot of needing to be more universal for the wide field of APC junglers. Then there is lastly bloodrazor, the latest in the family of attack speed jungle items that really didn't properly hit the mark, there were many in the past that hit too high, and this now hits too low. Percent based damage should really have been avoided since as a general damage type it either works extremely well or is a lacking damage stat. As much as devourer was hated flat damage is the better choice and option to tune. Another issue that was brought up time to time, was it's lack of synergy with the more crit based attack speed junglers.

Changes to all the jungle enchants that would help deal with the extreme snowbally nature of the jungle champs is to forcibly delay their item powerspikes.


item 1041

  • Change the sustain into 10% onmivamp against monsters This will give the machete starter's a boost in their sustain in the form of partially coming from the machete's on hit and partially from their abilities which should bring the item's sustain past talisman for single unit camps, and help them better survive against the incoming damage from the multi unit camps without increasing the clear speed of these jungler.

item 1401 /item 1409 /item 1413 build from:item 3751 + item 1029 + item 3706 /item 3711 /item 3715 + 600 (total 3000) +400 health +40 armor unique passive: All bonus armor and magic resist is increased by 1% for every 150 bonus health and all bonus health is increased by 1% for every 25 bonus armor or magic resist unique passive: immolate - no change Upping the price will force a slow down in the slowball of the jungle champs, with of course a boost in stats to compensate, a trait that will be shared with all of the suggested jungle enchant change ideas. The change to the bonus defensive passive will bring down the CoC users who were able to get away with not building as much damage mitigation. In the later game assuming that the person built to maximize the effectiveness there should be an overall better balanced set of defensive stats, and a closer amount of (less bonus %health than live but more damage mitigation).

item 1402 /item 1410 /item 1414 _built from: item 3108 + item 1052 + item 1027 + item 3706 /item 3711 /item 3715 + 315 (total 3000) +70 AP +10% cdr

  • 350 mana unique passive: increase ability power by 15% unique passive: killing a large or epic monster gain back 10% maximum mana_ This is to make the item an overall more universal AP damage item for the AP junglers. It will still continue with the theme of generally encouraging AP damage dealers to be building more of their desired stat. Again going with the theme of being a more universal AP jungle item rather than a movespeed stat which are more helpful for the assassin types, cdr is a stat that is more universally useful for the wider group.

item 1400 /item 1408 /item 1412 built from: item 3134 +item 1036 + item 3706 /item 3711 /item 3715 + 550 (total 3000) +50 AD +15 lethality +20 movespeed out of combat unique passive: gain lethality equal to 5% bonus AD The mindless stat stick that is current warrior will lose some of it's pure AD. But it is partially compensated with lethality, which was specifically tuned to scale over the course of the game giving a a tuning lever for AD champs. The scaling lever is also tuned in the form of the passive that gives lethality from from building bonus AD. There should be incentive and encouragement to build more AD on the champ and discourage the easier and generally too much more reliable bruiser builds without actually flat out killing the builds.

item 1416 /item 1418 /item 1419 built from: item 1043 + item 1051 + item 3706 /item 3711 /item 3715 + 600 (total 3000) +40 on hit magic damage (increased by 50% on critical strikes) +40% attack speed +15% crit chance unique passive: increase the damage of on hits by 1% for every 3% bonus attack speed This will give a scaling damage on hit that can cater to both the the niche of both the more on hit synergy champs/builds and also now the more crit synergy champs/builds and the ones who are general in between. The unique passive is taken inspiration from how devourer scaled up on hits, but this is tuned to be much more controlled, not going to achieve the rough 50% on hit damage inflation without at least 150% bonus attack speed, so there will be a much higher dedication to building attack speed and the on hit bruiser builds of then shouldn't be as oppressive on top of the on hits that have been removed or nerfed since then.

6 Comments

Linna Excel2 votes

The best suggestion I've heard for updating jungle items is let jungler have 2 different items to choose from. So that'd be 2 tank items, 2 AP items, and 2 AD items.

Shadow Hazard1 votes

Actually it is meant to replace the current ones. They are more expensive but comparatively better.

Pnakotic1 votes

Nerf on-hit based champion no? (Bloodrazor) Who doesn't build crit (Kindred)?

Zen Ineth1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Shadow Hazard,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0920ZRrm,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-12-01T04:50:20.660+0000)

For a long time now junglers have been given increasing amount of power to be more relevant

I know, isn't it great? :3c

Skia Asteri1 votes

So what is your theory about why item 1041 has a higher overall win rate as a starting item than item 1039 ? http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/items/jungle/platinum

To late at night to look at who each is good for myself, but the idea that machette is too weak seems off in light of that stat.

Pnakotic1 votes

High sustain jungler with good AoE, need just more dmg vs single camp?

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