Can we just up the energy costs on all energy champs except shen?

DeusVult·Jan 18, 2015·54 votes·2,382 views

Seriously, they may as well be resource-less because they can spam all their shit endlessly, the only ones who are even close to ever being out of energy are shen and kennen, who actually have to work to get their energy back. And as for CD's, all of them have really low CDs on most of their skills. Even if they miss, it will be back up in 3-4 seconds. And its actually pretty hard to miss, in the cases of zed q, lee q and kennen q, as the missile speed is really high and has no windup or show like other champs with similar abilities.

31 Comments

xGvPxJan 18, 201515 votes

Kennen doesn't deserve an energy nerf. You can't spam his Q until Rank 5. Shen can spam his shield a lot easier at Rank 1, for example.

Zed has the craziest low costs, though, on Living Shadow Rank 5, with substantial energy restore. Lee Sin has no scaling, moderate energy costs and flat CD. I'd say I'd look at Zed's restore, maybe scale that back some.

Buttigieg 2020Jan 18, 20158 votes

You forgot about shens 100 energy dash, you use it and half your energy is gone.

xGvPxJan 18, 20151 votes

{quoted}

You forgot about shens 100 energy dash, you use it and half your energy is gone.

Yeah but if that was always spammable people would be locked up too often. Would be too OP in team fights, haha.

AMYS GRAVEJan 19, 20151 votes

then lower the energy cost and up the cd on his dash, maybe adjust the cd of his other spells to compensate. a power shift would do a lot of good for him.

KMannnnn1Jan 18, 20153 votes

You get 40 energy back for each champion hit, so you're only stuck if you're escaping with it or if you wiff it.

Byakuya KuchikiJan 18, 20152 votes

Lee Sin has no scaling

thats flat wrong. i love lee as a champion and he doesnt need to be nerfed but dont lie his scalings are at least .8:1

xGvPxJan 19, 20151 votes

{quoted}

thats flat wrong. i love lee as a champion and he doesnt need to be nerfed but dont lie his scalings are at least .8:1

His energy use has no scaling; flat energy use.

JunkοJan 18, 20158 votes

To be fair their energy costs are already high. The thing is that their ENERGY RETURN is really high. Zed gains a ton of energy back if he hits duplicate spells. Kennen is literally resourceless in a teamfight. Lee is just Lee. Problem with Akali is really her ult being able to be cast 3 times for 0 energy cost.

junglerboy16Jan 18, 20155 votes

Kennen is in a fine spot already energy wise, so he wouldn't need this. His passive is designed so that he has a weak early game when he cannot simply spam spells at you and then get energy back, but then allows him to team fight well. Lee, Akali, and Zed could easily handle a nerf of maybe +5 energy more for each ability at every rank.

The issue right now is mostly that Lee's, Akali's, and Zed's energy return mechanisms are too easy to trigger. Zed just has to hit you with both his and his shadow's spells, Akali just has to proc her mark of the assassin, and Lee just has to auto in between spells. Kennen and Shen both have to do much more, Kennen needs to combo at least three abilities in rapid succession to proc his passive (Which is hard to do early game when that drains almost all of his energy to begin with), and Shen has to wait on his Ki strike and actually hit people with his shadow dash. If they just made the three "Problem" ninjas' energy regen mechanisms harder to activate or use, they would be in a much better spot.

PæanJan 18, 20154 votes

I saw the title and got really sad, but then you said not Shen and all was good. +1 for the Shen love!

PS I agree, Zed is just plain stupid. His energy doesnt even take a hit when he can spam those shuriken for cooldown every 6 or so sec.

JunkοJan 18, 20156 votes

To be fair every energy champ (Shen included except for his E) can spam 1 skill without their energy taking a hit.

BolwinkelJan 18, 20153 votes

All champions that use energy have a base energy regen of 10 every 1 second which increases to 16 with blue. To use akali's q w and e all at the same time would use all her energy. Zed has super low energy costs and still get back bonus with his kit. haven't played shen and kennen enough to know about them. Lee Sin just needs to be nerfed in general with his high damage abilities and their high scaling.

BorblandJan 18, 20152 votes

You forgot Kennen.

But i agree champs like Akali, Zed and Lee Sin should get an energy up.

BeatzBoyFTWJan 18, 20152 votes

TL;DR Buff LeeSin & Zed

No pls

Buttigieg 2020Jan 18, 20152 votes

You didn't read anything anybody posted on this board did you........

BeatzBoyFTWJan 18, 20151 votes

Oops, I read "up energy bar"

lel mb

alagoreJan 18, 20152 votes

{quoted}

TL;DR Buff &

No pls

Increasing the costs of zed and lee's abilities is a nerf. Level 9 Zed Q has an energy cost of 55. Increasing that to something like 70 would only hurt him.

Meep ManJan 18, 20152 votes

Zed Zed

Contempt of the Weak

Restores 10/20/30 Energy (at Levels 1/10/16) when used on an enemy champion marked with Death Mark

Razor Shuriken

Energy Cost increased to 85/80/75/70/65 from 75/70/65/60/55
Hitting an enemy champion will now restore 15 Energy
Mimicked shurikens deal 75% damage to minions

Living Shadow

Energy Cost increased to 45/40/35/30/25 from 40/35/30/25/20
Now costs an additional 30 Energy to switch places with Shadow (Total Energy Cost is 75/70/65/60/55 Energy)
Energy Restored from mimicked abilities reduced to 15/20/25/30/35 from 20/25/30/35/40

Shadow Slash

Energy Cost increased to 70/65/60/55/50 from 50 at all ranks
Deals 75% damage to minions now
Cool Down increased to 9 seconds from 4 seconds
Cool Down is decreased by 50% when it hits an enemy champion; decreases by 75% when it hits the same champion twice

EDIT: This is a personal change list, not an official one. Basically buffs to more offensive Zed and nerfs to Zed who "misplay". Also an increase in cost of Energy if Zed wants to use his shadow for mobility.

DownrunJan 18, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Inept Maverick,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=07rZAXji,comment-id=000c,timestamp=2015-01-18T21:53:08.507+0000)

Zed

Razor Shuriken

Energy Cost increased to 85/80/75/70/65 from 75/70/65/60/55

Hitting an enemy champion will now restore 15 Energy

Mimicked shurikens deal 75% damage to minions

Living Shadow

Energy Cost increased to 45/40/35/30/25 from 40/35/30/25/20

Now costs an additional 35 Energy to switch places with Shadow

Energy Restored from mimicked abilities reduced to 15/20/25/30/35 from 20/25/30/35/40

Shadow Slash

Energy Cost increased to 70/65/60/55/50 from 50 at all ranks

Deals 75% damage to minions now

Cool Down increased to 8 seconds

Cool Down is decreased by 50% when it hits an enemy champion

Source pls.

Not saying Zed doesn't need some tuning down but a full rotation of his abilities does leave him energyless for a few seconds. This isn't much of a problem in lane so much as in late game fights, especially because mana management is much less of a factor by then as well.

Champion SkinJan 19, 20151 votes

Well that's the cost of being an energy champion you have better early to mid game because you have much better resource sustain compared to mana and in mid game it is an advantage in that there is no need to invest into mana or mana regen and you are able to rush for damage But the disadvantage comes late game when mana becomes less limiting then energy in most cases

lDontLiftIcarryJan 18, 20152 votes

zed and lee are the only energy champs that have no meaningful energy costs. don't bundle the REAL energy champs with the broken as shit ones that have no real nerfs on them.

KidKaiserJan 18, 20151 votes

or they can just take off the "regen energy after hitting them is X and doing Y"

i mean. energy's base regen is like 25 per 5. and probably something like 50-60~ per 5 with blue buff.

makes a 20% CDr Zed almost untouchable

JunkοJan 18, 20152 votes

Energy regen is 10 per second. Blue buff gives like 2 more energy per second. They really need the energy regen to be viable. But they are a bit too high (i'm looking at you Zed and Kennen)

Aboylova92Jan 18, 20151 votes

I'd have to agree Kennen is fine as he is. His kit actually requires you to hit 3 abilities in succession to get some energy back, one of which takes a large portion of his energy pool. I'd say there's a good argument for Zed, or Akali though for sure.

BrutalCabbageJan 18, 20151 votes

No energy cost should be upped, they're all fine as they are. If energy champions were in need of changes (and they are, Zed, Lee and Akali being on the strong side and Kennen and Shen being on the weak side), energy costs would be the last thing to ever need changes, they would just break a really fragile balance (when Riot wanted to buff Zed they tried to lower his W cost on PBE, breaking him).

Shen is utter garbage right now, and it's not because ofther energy champions are stronger. Shen is crap because one, he loses lane to literally everyone. Two, his ultimate gives him no real advantage over other toplaners after TP buffs last season. Three, he falls off incredibly hard damage-wise while never ever having good damage in the first place. If he was meant to be viable in the current meta, he'd need a rework that would either turn him from a tank into something else (like an assassin or a bruiser), or a complete kit overhaul that would remove his ultimate (which won't happen since it's really important for his identity).

RikariJan 18, 20151 votes

Also give yasuo energy. the guy just keeps on going.

Malix FarwinJan 18, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Also give yasuo energy. the guy just keeps on going.

Yasuo already feeds enough lol

TotalisJan 18, 20151 votes

if you actually played zed you would know that he runs out of energy very easily during lane phase. VERY easily. Late game that problem disappears though. i would say just a nerf to the energy refund is all that really needs to happen.

Meep ManJan 18, 20151 votes

Can we also fix Kennen's pencil drawn face? http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140802020812/leagueoflegends/images/c/ca/Kennen_Render.png

ShadowParkerJan 19, 20151 votes

Kennen would be fine if they made his powered up auto give energy back.

MandaariJan 19, 20151 votes

Making their stuff cost more energy would break them. If you don't want them to spam endlessly then nerf their energy regen. Not that I have an opinion on whether they need to be nerfed or not, but regen would be the way to go.