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About the latest Cass changes.

Canastus··3 votes·1,144 views

http://i.imgur.com/BdN0iJT.png I can't believe you really allowed this to happen.

Cassiopeia already had a hard time managing her mana after the last nerfs to her overall mana-costs, since then Tear has become a mandatory item on her and even that doesn't cut it when it comes to extended fights which leave her oom instantly. So why are you allowing another nerf to hit her? Hasn't she suffered enough lately? She already gets stomped by all the fotm-picks out there, if you ask me she could use some buffs herself.

She literally gets weaker the longer the game goes on since it's incredibly easy to erase someone from the map during lategame when everyone's at their fullest potential. Due to Cassiopeia's inherently squishy and immobile nature she's logically the prime-target in teamfights. Despite that she's supposed to be the strongest lategame carry out there and you just made that fantasy even harder to achieve.

Even lategame marksmen deal more damage than her if you consider the sheer impact of criticals and the fact that autoattacks cost no mana at all, neither do they require any previous conditions to be fullfilled like her poison-trigger. A loss of 12% is a HUGE amount when we're talking about four digit numbers of AP - numbers which she desperately needs due to her disappointing ratios.

I seriously hope you're going to address some of those issues in the next patch. Because Cass really could use some help right now.

15 Comments

Thryale5 votes

cass doesn't need more buffs/nerfs. She needs to be re-reworked.

Canastus4 votes

{quoted}

cass doesn't need more buffs/nerfs. She needs to be re-reworked.

I'm absolutely okay with that. She used to have so much more diversity in terms of builds and playstyle, now she's nothing more but an AP-Rambo.

Abyssphere3 votes

It's dumb. 12% of her total AP lategame is a really big amount, like seriously impactful. She's in an ok spot balance-wise (still atrociously designed and a horribly handled rework in general, absolutely ridiculous that a Rioter would say "more work needs to be done" and then disappear forever) but this is a big nerf.

Half hoping she goes back to trash tier so people will at least stop downvoting the Cass players who dislike the rework again.

Sailor Mint2 votes

it was an undocumented 5.5 change. It's been live for two weeks with no noticeable impact on her win rate.

I'd tell you to build Athene's on her, but it's a little awkward with her passive (low AP, too much CDR).

Canastus1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Devi Freak Mint,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=07IGZtF0,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-03-24T20:56:19.269+0000)

It's been live for two weeks, it was an undocumented 5.5 change.

I'd tell you to build Athene's on her, but it's a little awkward with her passive.

Athene's is pretty much a waste of gold on her since she doesn't need the cdr. RoA + Seraph's is the better choice if there's really a great demand for mana but that delays her powerspike even more. And that's where my problem lies - she's the strongest just before the lategame and then she becomes irrelevant again due to everyone oneshotting her.

Sailor Mint2 votes

Well, here's my question.

Did you notice the nerf? If the nerf was so crippling, why didn't we see threads about Cassi getting ninja nerfed in the past two weeks?

In general, if a champion is still doing well after a nerf (she was even played in LCS on 5.5), it's a sign that maybe it was warranted.

Canastus1 votes

Absolutely. My winrate dropped very hard those last two weeks, infact I had twice as many losses than wins during that timeframe. Just by building one tanky item it becomes impossible for her to acquire 1k ap now, even with her passive fully stacked. There's something terribly wrong here.

And I already made a couple of threads before, they were downvoted instantly though because of this irrational hatred for Cass.

Sailor Mint1 votes

Her Plat+ win rate barely moved in 5.5 (49.85% to 50.09%).

It's really rare for a champion getting nerfed and not losing 1-2% win rate. If she lost power in 5.5, it seems that the buff to her front line made up for it.

Canastus1 votes

What exactly would that buff to her frontline be? Luden's Echo? I absolutely see no room for it in her inventory, most of all due to a certain "healthy" midlaner forcing her to rush a Zhonya's all the time.

Her build usually looks like this: Boots/Sorcerer's, Tear/Archangel/Seraph's and Deathcap, Zhonya's & Void Staff in varying order depending on the opponent and their itemization.

Theoretically you still could get a Luden's as the last item but that'd be incredibly late. It simply doesn't fit into her early and midgame.

Sailor Mint1 votes

I'm talking about tanks getting buffed being an indirect buff. We're also seeing a lot of disengage supports.

Is the meta favoring her? Did she never reach super late game so the nerf is harder to notice in shorter games?

I'm more interested in finding out why her win rate stayed stable than whether or not she deserved the nerf.

Hsemaglig2 votes

She allready did get nerfed, nerfed big time q w damage is now very low compared to before so her poke is very bad now and it was awesome before

Q: AP scaling reduced to (+35% AP) from (+80% AP). Cooldown increased to 4 seconds from 3.

W: Base damage reduced to 10 / 15 / 20 / 25 / 30 per second from 25 / 35 / 45 / 55 / 65. AP scaling reduced to (+10% AP) per second from (+15% AP). Cooldown reduced to 14 / 13 / 12 / 11 / 10 seconds from 9 at all ranks.

they gave her terrible early game couse r base dmg nerfed and e dmg for early game nerfed and buffed bu about 20% late game (her overall dmg super late game was nerfed too and it was moved a lot of it was moved to the e too !) she now have a very very bad time early game and pretty bad time mid game vs competent opponents , the removal of her passive (yes removal her new passive doesnt give her back even the dmg / cd she HAD before after the ratios nerfs) made her super mana hyngry and tear mandatory early game if you ever hope to get a kill 1v1... before you run out of mana and get roflstomped,, her mana problems drag on to mid game too vs beefy enemy teams. She was nerfed enough if anything i see a need for buffs to her dmg .... only thing she got along the nerfs is r cd reduction (you are not apssming this anyway lol) and 10% more slow on w.... this additional nerf was unwarranted

GetBoomedOn1 votes

Are you joking????????????? As long as the target is poisoned Cass can continue to spam twin fang at auto attack speeds. If she was to gain a buff she would need that c/d to .5s deleted. She's on the stronger end already, she doesn't need to be completely broken. All it takes is QWREEEEE deleted. Cass with spell vamp is a ridiculous duelist.

DreamLeviathan1 votes

I decided to try glancing at her lolking stats to see how this change seemed to actually impact her since it's been live without people knowing.

Hard to say anything about this issue, though, because she got a giant popularity spike a few days before 5.5 and her win rate dropped with it, then went back to around 50% once the popularity went back down. Her win rate was pretty spiky before that week. wait these were normal stats that was probably free week.

by the ranked stats it looked like her win rate went down very slightly on average.

Sirsir1 votes

Couple of things

Cassiopeia already had a hard time managing her mana after the last nerfs to her overall mana-costs, since then** Tear has become a mandatory item on her** and even that doesn't cut it when it comes to extended fights which leave her oom instantly. So why are you allowing another nerf to hit her? Hasn't she suffered enough lately? She already gets stomped by all the fotm-picks out there, if you ask me she could use some buffs herself

WRONG! RoA is much better, or even both. She has very little mana issues if you can correctly last hit with E. Extended teamfights almost never happen anymore (not to be confused with sieges) and are especially rare before she handles her mana issues.

She literally gets weaker the longer the game goes on since it's incredibly easy to erase someone from the map during lategame due to everyone being at their fullest potential. Due to Cassiopeia's inherently squishy and immobile nature she's naturally the prime-target in teamfights. Despite that she's supposed to be the strongest lategame carry out there and you just made that fantasy even harder to achieve.

Not really. She shouldn't be inherently squishy since she generally builds RoA, Zhonyas and Rylais, maybe even Abyssal. She isn't a tank but she is still relatively beefy

Even lategame marksmen deal more damage than her if you consider the sheer impact of criticals and the fact that autoattacks cost no mana at all, neither do they require any previous conditions to be fullfilled like her poison-trigger. A loss of 12% is a HUGE amount when we're talking about four digit numbers of AP - numbers which she desperately needs due to her disappointing ratios

Mana and the poison requirements mean nothing considering her build path and the innate 25% CDR on her low CD Q. And her Ratios are only disappointing BECAUSE of the massive amounts of AP she can handle on top of the epic Liandries proc and almost nonexistent cooldowns. 55% of AP every half second for 3 seconds is almost as much as a full combo of most mages. Plus the fact that if played correctly this NEVER STOPS.

Not saying that this nerf isn't a bad thing and unnecessary, just that your making it seem a lot worse than it is...

Dpp9p4bHPA1 votes

lol no cass is op and needed the nerf

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