AP support items suck really hard

RedCyclone·Aug 4, 2015·27 votes·3,523 views

and recently, the still never purchased Are all we have

Only one of them has over 50 AP attached to it, but the implication that a AP support is going to buy these items to increase their utility with their pathetic ratios on those utility spells is stupid We can't do anything with these items to benefit ourselves, everything about these items is to improve your ADC, a good idea but it is eating away at the tiny itemization pool we have No one plays supports who need their utility to scale with AP, because they are terrible lategame, they never have enough AP to do anything with their ratios and are usually much much squisher then the rest of the options in the game, once the 40 minute mark rolls around you may as well be playing 4v5

All these items need their AP values hiked up to between 60-100, and usher in a few more AP support items with decent AP and perhaps an some different active other then "attach yourself and depend on this stranger to do everything for you" and we could be golden

56 Comments

ErockandrollAug 4, 201522 votes

Cause any support with Decent Ratios is already a mid laner.

But theirs a lot of problems with just putting AP on support items. For starters, The more AP you have, the more gold you need to purchase it. And Supports are already working with very little gold as it is. And if they did have the AP, more along the line of other items, It would be picked up by midlaners. (specifically the utility mid laners like Lulu)

But then again, Why would a support need utilities like that if their built in utility scaled so well with AP? Wouldn't they just Built AP items? I usually buy Morello's as my primary mana item. That's a good 80 AP right there.

AutoreactiveCD4Aug 4, 20151 votes

I've been curious about what would happen if they tried reducing AP support damage AP scaling but increasing their utility scaling, not on shields though. Early game in solo lanes may be a nightmare but they'd lack the ability to contribute significant damage. I'm sure there's a good reason but idk.

Another option is to give some kind of steep diminishing return on their utility scaling. Some AP would be really useful but when you get an amount that would be unrealistic for a support it starts to fall off hard and becomes extremely inefficient to invest in more AP.

Just my thoughts, don't know if it would be practical or healthy for the game.

ErockandrollAug 4, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I've been curious about what would happen if they tried reducing AP support damage AP scaling but increasing their utility scaling, not on shields though. Early game in solo lanes may be a nightmare but they'd lack the ability to contribute significant damage. I'm sure there's a good reason but idk.

Another option is to give some kind of steep diminishing return on their utility scaling. Some AP would be really useful but when you get an amount that would be unrealistic for a support it starts to fall off hard and becomes extremely inefficient to invest in more AP.

Just my thoughts, don't know if it would be practical or healthy for the game.

They first tried that with Lulu, and that put her in a solo lane. The only way that would work is if the support in question had a completely abysmal kit for laning. Only a hand full of champion could do that. (maybe Sona and Soraka.) But if a support had any wave clear at all. They could take the solo lane, get solo lane gold, Build AP, and have more utility than their support Counterpart. Prior to the Zillian Rework the different between support ult and mid ult, was Barely saving your life, and 0-100.

The real problem is that Supports can't afford much. So the Better option would be to make them less reliant on Scaling all together.

AutoreactiveCD4Aug 4, 20151 votes

Oh I remember the terror Lulu was. However, Glitterlance had/has decent base damage and I believe a .5 ratio. Why not try to cut that ratio to like .2? Of course some supports should be forced to stay in the support role. Remember jungle or top lane Alistar? Oh and solo lane soraka...no thanks.

But what about diminishing returns, kind of like with resistances? X supports heal/shield increases by 70 when they have 100 AP, at 200 AP it only gives 110 (number just for an example of course). The little AP they get from their support items would be useful but going into a solo lane would be less desirable because you'll be dumping gold onto a champ that won't scale as effectively.

ErockandrollAug 4, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Oh I remember the terror Lulu was. However, Glitterlance had/has decent base damage and I believe a .5 ratio. Why not try to cut that ratio to like .2? Of course some supports should be forced to stay in the support role. Remember jungle or top lane Alistar? Oh and solo lane soraka...no thanks.

But what about diminishing returns, kind of like with resistances? X supports heal/shield increases by 70 when they have 100 AP, at 200 AP it only gives 110 (number just for an example of course). The little AP they get from their support items would be useful but going into a solo lane would be less desirable because you'll be dumping gold onto a champ that won't scale as effectively.

That's mostly a non factor since supports can't really afford copious amounts of AP. Unless your talking about Baring supports from the mid lane, but that's kind of a lazy way to approach that.

If Any champ started showing up in a different position. Sometimes becoming OP or Oppressive. When that happens, Riot obviously has to look at the WHY. And Decide whether it's something worth supporting. If it's OP, but worth supporting, Riot will try to balance them around the new position. (and try to retain strengths of their former position) But we still have to accept the fact that Mid lane Lulu will have stronger utility than Support Lulu. If it's not worth supporting, then they gut the champion.

Riot does not want to have too much say about where champions should go. (thou does have opinion on where some champs shouldn't go) They still have to balance around the most OP build. Yet some of the best Flex picks that can do well in more lanes, do so by taking on a different role, which may involve different build paths. (Ekko had like 3 different build paths in the LCS. One for each position he was used) The best flex champions can fill multiple roles, regardless of which one he's balanced for.

AutoreactiveCD4Aug 4, 20151 votes

Unfortunately in the case of Lulu, the changes they made to Lulu to balance her around solo lanes made her a much weaker support.

I still think diminishing returns may be a useful way to help certain AP supports considering their low budget. Maybe not Lulu, but sona does have the problem of just being useful for the stun late game. I could go on a rant about this point because this is the same thing as Annie, but she's actually used...

OK after all this thinking I realize why Riot has had such a hard time on this subject.

KuboxAug 4, 20151 votes

I think the problem with diminishing returns on supports is that it would ultimately define that "this champion is meant to support and nothing else". Now most people would go "every champion is made for a specific role" and while somewhat true, Riot tries to never force a character in a role.

Take many ADCs for example, that have multiple AP scalings that are useless to them unless they leave their ADC role aside and go AP. Some can pull it off, some not, but in the end, the option's there.

If you go to supports, and give them diminishing returns on AP and low damage, you're basically going to them and denying them the chance of ever going AP. You're forcing them down the Support role, while most champions aren't forced into one role. Ezreal can be a mage or ADC, Wukong can be a tank or a bruiser, jungle or top. Gut Lulu's base and scaling and suddenly she can't do much other than support.

MagicalGirlRoselAug 5, 20151 votes

Of course some supports should be forced to stay in the support role.

Shush up and give me my bruiser top lane Soraka.

BeatRushVIIAug 4, 201510 votes

Ignore support items and build void and death cap, death is best cc

Dr PoroAug 4, 20159 votes

If you want AP items on support that are not helping your ADC, why not just buy AP items?

item 3116 for example is really good on most AP supports.

BTW, the biggest issue is probably that what is supposed to be THE support AP item is useless item 3092 . There's no reason to upgrade item 3303 as the upgrades cost way more than they bring.

SpecterVonBarenAug 4, 20151 votes

Frostfang is actually pretty good to get early. It's just Queen's Claim that's really not worthwhile.

only zhuleAug 5, 20151 votes

would have to disagree with you, Quuen's really isn't worth the investment unless you are getting it as your like 5 or 6th item. And Frostfang takes 20+ mins of the passive gold on hit to pay for itself.

ErockandrollAug 4, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Poro,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=06Obi4Jx,comment-id=000d,timestamp=2015-08-04T14:45:56.384+0000)

If you want AP items on support that are not helping your ADC, why not just buy AP items?

for example is really good on most AP supports.

BTW, the biggest issue is probably that what is supposed to be THE support AP item is useless . There's no reason to upgrade as the upgrades cost way more than they bring.

Frost fang gets +5AP, +25% mana regen, and no additional GP10 when upgraded from spell thief's. Which means for a combination cost of 500, you get one fairy charm, and a Quarter of an amplifying tome. Which isn't even 300 gold worth of stats. So for this to be even worth on paper, the tribute passive, which increase from 10 to 15 bonus damage and 5-10 gold on proc, would have to be worth at least 200 gold. And yet at best, that is a max of 15 extra damage and gold, every 30 seconds.

in comparison, Medialion gets, a fairy charm, half a rejuvenation bead. 2GP10, +10 MS speed (2/5ths of a boot), and it's passive is entirely doubled. when upgraded from coin.

Targons has, upgraded from relic shield, 2/3rds of a ruby crystal, a Rejuvination bead, And it's passive gains 10 extra health with a stronger execute, all at double the frequency.

So Frost Fang is literally the worst investment of 500 gold. If you wanted to make that better, increase the on hit damage from 15 to 20 damage. Maybe increase the AP to 15. And for Frost queen's, do the same but give a slight damage ratio on the tribute passive.

The problem with Frost queen's is that it was originally balanced to be the high risk high reward item. But people with less than perfect CS complained about supports having Mid level gold. considering that riot has also buffed the GP10 on the "low risk item" it is becoming clear that differences in gold gen, wasn't a good way to differentiate between them. But the spell theifs line got nerfed without compensation.

Earl EulrichAug 4, 20155 votes

AD-support items suck even more, as they don´t even exist since Zeke´s got removed. #slapdiversity

Sir YamazukiAug 4, 20155 votes

Lets conveniently ignore everything else and focus on 1 stat on a given item.

ErockandrollAug 4, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lord Yamazuki,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=06Obi4Jx,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2015-08-04T14:19:52.706+0000)

Lets conveniently ignore everything else and focus on 1 stat on a given item.

while technically true. CDR and Mana regen have a capped effectiveness. At best, AP supports will peek in the mid game and completely fall off. As sona, I can increase My poke and powerchord by maxing CDR and getting enough Mana to use it. And I can do so Buying good support items like censor. But afterwords, I can't bolster my abilities anymore except by getting AP.

In contrast, Tank supports don't really fall off. Their powerful kits make them good at all stages of the game.

Sir YamazukiAug 4, 20151 votes

{quoted}

while technically true. CDR and Mana regen have a capped effectiveness. At best, AP supports will peek in the mid game and completely fall off. As sona, I can increase My poke and powerchord by maxing CDR and getting enough Mana to use it. And I can do so Buying good support items like censor. But afterwords, I can't bolster my abilities anymore except by getting AP.

In contrast, Tank supports don't really fall off. Their powerful kits make them good at all stages of the game.

All tanks are designed differently and their items have a different focus. They aren't good at all stages of the game, some are rather bad at winning games early but do fine later, then there are some that are far more effective early and loses effectiveness as the game goes on. Just look at Braum who doesn't win much early but starts winning more often later, then Blitz/Leona who has an opposite trend. Mean while champions like Sona and Janna both remain highly effective at all points in the game. You have coin with a nonexistent cool down that can be used both offensively or defensively, mean while the tank version is on a much longer cool down and is only usable in an offensive situation then there's a cleanse, free stats/damage for a carry etc.

Saying supports "get no ap" is pointless when they are -supports-, you are supporting your allies, and all their items reflect that. If you wanted AP just go mid lane.

only zhuleAug 5, 20151 votes

You miss the point. Imagine if any other role had to constantly have 1/3-1/2 of their items slots be filled with trash "your the team". What if it was expected that the first item you build as a tank was always Iron Solari. Or mid was always expected to pick up Zeke's Harbinger.

I want to be useful as a support, but i don't want to have to build 2-3 shit tier items before i can finally start being useful to the team. Add to that the expectation that i'm going to get those items first with few to no kills and not being allowed to farm creeps. Can you see how horrible that idea would be fore ANY OTHER role.

Sire HippingtonAug 4, 20151 votes

what keeps your from getting a voidstaff if you want more damage? or haunting guise or sheen.. why not get zohnyas or abysal or rylais if you want defense+ap, or a good old rabbadons't to bolster all you've got? And ap-supports have just as powerfull kits as tanks with lots of utillity that doesn't need items to stay relevant....

However, what really would be needed is a utillity masterie that converts overflowing cdr into ap or atleast something usefull, it is nearly impossible to play support without overcapping cdr sooner or later

BastionKrossAug 4, 20155 votes

Riot has no clue how to help supports. For the proof, just look at item 3050 . It's active is supposed to boost both the support and marksman into powerful fighters for a short time. The 50% crit is nice for marksmen, but supports don't itemize AD or AS so having them crit is usually a waste. So they have it also give 20% AP to help the supports out.

The problem is that an increase of 20% to 200AP is 240AP. That's certainly much more underwhelming than having the marksman crit every auto. Supports generally can't gather that much AP together to make a %increase worth it. What are they going to do, build a item 3504 ? item 3092 ? The biggest support item AP-wise is probably item 3023 , and that's still only 80.

But let's ignore that glaring weakness and bring up another problem, most supports can't make good use of higher AP numbers anyway. Since if they can, they get taken to other lanes and stop being supports. Having Zeke's grant a %AP increase to supports to boost their power is like giving a %AS bonus to mages; it's not helping much.

What they should of done to help supports is have the active affect utility. Buffs and debuffs cast on others by the empowered champion now last 50% longer. Heals on others are now 50% stronger. Something along those lines.

ABlueQuakerAug 4, 20154 votes

item 3117 item 3060 item 3157 item 2045 item 3165 item 3135

You basically just need... item 3117 and item 2045 and item 3060 or item 3222 ...for a core Mage-Support build. If you want AP beyond that, simply build AP. Most if not all of your Utility scales with it. I usually get Morello's for the CDR and the Passive, Zhonya's for it's Active, and Void if I want my damage to stick.

I find myself going Banner more than Mikael's at the moment just because of how the meta is at the moment. The Aegis Aura is great in mid-game teamfights, and the Active can be used to create map pressure.

item 3504 + Zeke's Herald was great if you had a protect the ADC comp... Then Riot removed Zeke's.

A Miss FortuneAug 4, 20153 votes

item 3504 is extremely good with someone like Janna.

Aside from that I typically build item 3069 item 3047 item 2045 item 3190 item 3065 item 3143 as almost all AP champions. There's really no reason to have an AP Support build over a Tanky Support, If I wanted to play Lulu with AP I'd just play her Top, Mid, or Jungle.

They need to make the AP items have more utility. Like the extra damage and attack speed from Ardent Censer is amazing, It's a passive that works incredibly well on Supports and It's an item that carries can't abuse. It's probably one of my favorite items in the game because when I play someone who can utilize it properly, it feels like I'm significantly helping my team more.

item 3023 is a great idea, but the cooldown is really long and It's not that rewarding or easy to use item 3092 is just bad, why would you potentially slow a small crowd when you can speed up your entire team item 3222 still wondering why it doesn't give a real amount of AP item 3060 actually It's pretty good but the cooldown is kind of stupid item 3050 is usually only good if you have one person that's hard carrying

ErockandrollAug 4, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Miss Fortune,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=06Obi4Jx,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2015-08-04T13:04:07.029+0000)

is extremely good with someone like Janna.

Aside from that I typically build as almost all AP champions. There's really no reason to have an AP Support build over a Tanky Support, If I wanted to play Lulu with AP I'd just play her Top, Mid, or Jungle.

They need to make the AP items have more utility. Like the extra damage and attack speed from Ardent Censer is amazing, It's a passive that works incredibly well on Supports and It's an item that carries can't abuse. It's probably one of my favorite items in the game because when I play someone who can utilize it properly, it feels like I'm significantly helping my team more.

is a great idea, but the cooldown is really long and It's not that rewarding or easy to use is just bad, why would you potentially slow a small crowd when you can speed up your entire team still wondering why it doesn't give a real amount of AP actually It's pretty good but the cooldown is kind of stupid is usually only good if you have one person that's hard carrying

The problem with AP Support items is you need to make them, undesirable in the hands of mid laners. But on the flip side, supports can't actually afford AP items. And this is my point actually with Lulu, If theses support have scaling, they do better in lane.

But the problem with Tank support is that they don't actually need tank items. If they get tank items, that's a bonus, but they get so much mileage out of just their kit. And that's ultimately what should happen with AP Supports. Give them high Bases so that they don't actually need much AP. But if they do Get AP, a bonus.

I could see room for Censor to be buffed, if it differentiated between single target and Multi man heals/shields. Cause right now, it's balanced around Sona, Alistar, Karma, and other champs who have multi man heals/shields. But their should be room to bolster it for the single target case.

Mikale's, is made to be inefficient. I remember when it was a must buy on every support and their mother. And then Riot put an unneeded about of Mana regen and some CDR, as an excuse to jack up the price.

Frost Queen's should have more poke damage on it's tribute passive. Though I'm actually some what fine with the active. It's only real problem is that many supports already have slows. The item itself should just do more damage. That's what poke supports want.

Banner is the only real good support item. In fact it's so good, it's used in the LCS. Make the support build the legion passive so that your Jungler can build greedy, all while giving them a unique split push tool.

Penguin EclipseAug 4, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Miss Fortune,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=06Obi4Jx,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2015-08-04T13:04:07.029+0000)

is extremely good with someone like Janna.

Unfortunately it's really not that good. It is a strong early game item that you can't reasonably acquire until mid game. By that time 15% AS is nearly worthless. The 30 on hit magic damage is not bad except that adc's build 0 magic pen. So it will never do anything close to 30 damage mid-late game. And being magic damage that means it doesn't count toward crits.

The other stats are nothing worth bragging about.

only zhuleAug 5, 20151 votes

My issue with Censor is that it's really kind of a bad item except on like 1-2 champions. Like i will admit it's amazing on Janna, but that's not because it's good it's because her shield gives such a power boost that censor becomes half decent. Look at censor on her versus someone like Alistar or Sona. She gives +30 magic damage on hit, and 15% attack speed bonus WHILE ALSO giving the ally +70 AD. So now your ally is hitting for 100 more damage per shot with a AS bonus. Sona gives the +30 magic damage on auto and the 15% attack speed bonus but that's it. Maybe it's just me but i don't want to invest 2100 gold and an item slot into such a small bonus to an ally, when i can drop like 700 gold more and get twice the CDR and AP (sure my ally doesn't get the AS or magic damage on hit bonus but chances are me casting abilities faster and them doing the extra 40-60 damage is making up for that)

R3ginaGeorg3Aug 4, 20153 votes

I play support most of the time (Mostly because I hate the waiting time for a supp in queue), and I agree with you on the FACT that support items suck for the most part; and that the dependency on your ADC usually makes you fall off the second you are by yourself. However, I also have to agree with adding more AP to those items not being the solution.

I think that the support role needs to be diversified and strengthened, and since we can't directly change champion's stats because it might have terrible effects on other lanes, items would have to be the way to go.

To begin with, it sucks that as the support you are ALWAYS behind in gold and XP... always! Of course, if your AD is doing great, you will both be ahead of the enemy team... but you are always still behind your ADC (And just because you are the support and your job is to help/protect the adc, it shouldn't mean you always have to be sacrificing something for it... HELL you are already sacrificing EVERYTHING for it [it = ADC].

I think the gold income from support items needs to be increased, either by giving more gold, or giving the same gold but in shorter spurs of time. I have a support rue page where i run gold quints and all that, but at the cost of always being slightly weaker early levels and that SUCKS and it's unfair!

Maybe make a support specific summoner spell (i know exhaust is the go-to, but listen here....) that when chosen, just like smite, makes a certain item at the shop available for the champ running that summoner. Then, with that particular item, we could give supports better stats so they can be AT LEAST at the same level as their ADC.

Another problem with supports always falling behind, is also being left behind. While LoL is supposed to be a "Team Game" we all know that it is VERY rare when a team actually plays/behaves like one (unless you are a premade 5 person team ). So in my experience as support, unless I have a good friend being my ADC, as soon as i am able to get 3-4 kills under my ADC's wing, they tend to start getting cocky and doing more solo things around the map. Once they have 3 good items or so, they could not care less about what happens to the support, and as the support, since your items are all utility and suck, you spend a good deal of time running behind allies in order to get some fun out of late game.. else, you might be able to clear the weaker jungle camps while the damage dealers of your team eat up the enemy base at their own pace.

And it would have to be through Items, if they try to change the champ stats to try and help out, they will probably end up damaging great champs like they did with Zyra. She started as a mid mage, but because her stats (and CC and range) were really great, and her ability kit is extremely powerful) people started running her as support, so she got super nerfed... now she is hardly ever seen mid, and even as support... I love her and main her, and play her as Mid/Supp/JG, and when I ask my friend why they don't play her they all say the same... " She is way too squishy/base health is awful, her plants are TOO EASY to destroy (always compared to Heimer turrets, not only the turret do more damage, and take longer to kill, they are also easier to place in terms of CDR and Mana spent), and that she has no mobility... her base movement speed is awful, and unless you land a good root, or slowing plant near the enemy... you'll be deforested. SO for the sake of those mid lane mages who are still decent supports, do NOT suggest that rito fix their stats.

I don't honestly know if I made any sense now that I read all I wrote, I am just ranting, I know.... but yeah. I agree that in order to be a useful team player, and also have fun playing late game as support, you have to be selfish and "Sacrifice" a couple of item slots and get whatever items you want because you deserve it! (Sorry not sorry I didn't get a mikael's and got a morello instead!)

Rant over

-RG

MLDzXnRRRAug 4, 20152 votes

There are supports with good AP ratios too ... or mages with stuns and cc who are played botlane.

PokladnicaZlaAug 4, 20152 votes

item 3303 could use a buff aswell.

OverpoweredSoapAug 4, 20152 votes

Because if you have items with good AP and cdr etc (the stuff an ap support needs), it's going to be picked up by a midlaner and get abused.

CasterGilgameshAug 4, 20151 votes

not any more riot buffed most of the ap items we just need them to be decent for late game use of a support

The LovelessAug 4, 20151 votes

you a moth*******n lie

all of the support items except the frostfang line (which is getting buffed I think) are good

yeah um..don't wait for pros to tell you it's ok. try them yourself

ZavernAug 4, 20151 votes

I've used Zekes a few times. Never seems to want to hit 100 when it matters.

The Bíg TicketAug 4, 20151 votes

Ardent Censer is a great item and really cheap.

Xela SyabAug 4, 20151 votes

I really feel like they need to make support items build from the gp/5 stuff so that item 3050 item 3023 item 3504 build from item 3098 because who else is gonna buy these items except dedicated support?

Confron7a7ion7Aug 4, 20151 votes

Supports aren't suppose to handle things themselves. They are suppose to assist the team. Good examples of this are champs like Thresh and Leona because their kit allows them to stay relevant all game. Items like item 3050 and item 3023 allow support champs abilities to assist their team mates. Thats the primary reason for them, not to let you kill people. Aura items like item 3190 and item 3001 are also for this reason. As a support you arent suppose to be able to get your own kills or even easily defend yourself. You are there to make your team better.

Exta5yAug 4, 20151 votes

{quoted}

and recently, the still never purchased Are all we have

Only one of them has over 50 AP attached to it, but the implication that a AP support is going to buy these items to increase their utility with their pathetic ratios on those utility spells is stupid We can't do anything with these items to benefit ourselves, everything about these items is to improve your ADC, a good idea but it is eating away at the tiny itemization pool we have No one plays supports who need their utility to scale with AP, because they are terrible lategame, they never have enough AP to do anything with their ratios and are usually much much squisher then the rest of the options in the game, once the 40 minute mark rolls around you may as well be playing 4v5

All these items need their AP values hiked up to between 60-100, and usher in a few more AP support items with decent AP and perhaps an some different active other then "attach yourself and depend on this stranger to do everything for you" and we could be golden

I do very well as Zyra support idk what you are talking about http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=XxobscenexX

LuggAug 4, 20151 votes

item 3023 is a great item when the rest of your team doesn't ward, which is about 50% of games.

WajsterAug 4, 20151 votes

Pro tip, if you want AP, dont build AP support items. Their purpose is to help support, not do damage.

The Bearded BardAug 4, 20151 votes

You can thank Annie and Morg for that. High ratio "supports" means no one can have good AP support items.

UPfreelyAug 4, 20151 votes

item 3504 is pretty darn good on Janna Sona maybe Soraka but sucks on every1 else item 3023 isn't generally great on supports as their kits are filled with slows already. item 3050 supports cant really use the ap/crit bonuses on this item to great effect, if you buy this item, it's basically just for your adc, bonuses for you may as well not even be there.

Ballsiest LissNAAug 4, 20151 votes

Isn't that kind of the point? It's the same as lane dominant adcs having spells that fall off mid-late game. Shit's not meant to be good when it's not meant to be good. I get why you're upset, but it's not because your idea of changing these utility items to actual AP items is correct, it's because you don't understand why things are balanced to be different.

PaladinNOAug 4, 20151 votes

I actually buy Censer quite often when playing some champions. Janna + Censer + Vayne is a quite decent combination (from my perspective). Or Twin Shadows on Bard, given its MS bonus and "extra ward"-function when he collects chims in enema jungo.

LVL 5 POROAug 4, 20151 votes

Censor is just broken on Karma, I love it, combine it with Lockett for shield stacking and you basically win every team fight.

NullDragonAug 4, 20151 votes

If you want 60-100 AP as a support, buy not-support AP items. It's that simple, really.

CasterGilgameshAug 4, 20151 votes

what riot needs to do is gut the base damage buff the ratio highly and increase the utility of all supports and add an item to increase the power of buffs and debuffs and add more debuffs and buffs to support kits

Sire HippingtonAug 4, 20151 votes

item 3060 item 3092 item 3165 .... item 3136 is very costefficient if you want some more damage, and it builts into item 3151 as a luxority item late item 3116 might be a bit expensive, but is very potent by times item 3040 allows to spam away in lane, adds extremly high ap compared to teh goldcost and helps to not get bursted with the shield item 3041 might be a bit cheese, but some of the ap supports like janna are really save cand can get a shitload of ap for litlle gold. item 3157 situational great item, and since the ap-item rework a little bit easier to affort item 3135 still boss in terms od damage/gold and a massive single off-item for anyone with decent basedamage item 3001 not to expensive, grants some defense as well, and helps your entire team with dealing magic damage, adds up greatly with item 3136 for costefficient damage on champs with good basedamage

LadyRenlyAug 4, 20151 votes

I dunno, I've been busting out the Zeke's for Nami. Dunno if it's good or not, but I've been trying with it and I'm currently 6-0.

Jungle Lux GodAug 5, 20151 votes

In my opinion Twin Shadows is a pretty solid item for a support.

It has a core AP item's worth of stats for 600 less gold than the core AP items and a really strong supportive active. What's not to like about it?

NekusenAug 5, 20151 votes

a new item idea i got

Mysterious Trinket: 365 G

Generates 1 Gold every 10 seconds. Generates 1 Gold every time you cast a spell. (Killing a minion disables this for 10 secs) Generates 1 gold every time a nearby ally kills a minion. 25 HP 25% Mana regen

Orb of seasons: Mysterious Trinket + 500 G

Generates 1 Gold every 10 seconds. Generates 2 Gold every time you cast a spell. (Killing a minion disables this for 10 secs) Generates 2 gold every time a nearby ally kills a minion. 10 AP 50 HP 25% Mana regen

Mirror of Spirits: Orb of seasons + Ruby Crystal + Amplifying Tome + 500 G

Generates 1 Gold every 10 seconds. Generates 2 Gold every time you cast a spell. (Killing a minion disables this for 10 secs) Generates 2 gold every time a nearby ally kills a minion. 60 AP 300 HP 100'% Mana regen Unique – Mirror Portal: Teleports to target allied champion (4000 range) , 90 seconds cooldown.

** 1- SightStones** item 2049 Is rarely worth upgrading into item 2045 So i though of different upgrade choices like item 1039 's to make it more interesting and add variety.