Can we please do something to help casters against jungle tanks rushing Warmogs?

Yenn·Sep 20, 2017·2 votes·399 views

This completely and utterly fucks over any caster when combined with Cinderhulk, disregarding how fucked over they naturally are when it comes to dealing with tanks, as it's too early to have anti-tank itemization.

An intermediate item to deal with HP stacking in the short term would help a lot. Liandry's usually viable until third item for the majority of champions (if it's even viable at all), which is far too late.

10 Comments

FireDrizzleSep 20, 20172 votes

{quoted}

An intermediate item to deal with HP stacking in the short term would help a lot. Liandry's usually viable until third item for the majority of champions (if it's even viable at all), which is far too late.

Liandries is actually really strong.

YennSep 20, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Liandries is actually really strong.

Not all AP can utilize it well, and it's not a viable build over Luden's + Morello for the vast majority of champions.

It's an extremely expensive item with a bad build path that gives no intermediate power.

VICKLIUSSep 24, 20171 votes

learn mana control, if you need cdr get from runes

woodvsmurphSep 20, 20171 votes

They weren't exactly designed to focus tanks - aside from maybe stuff like cass, orianna, azir.

YennSep 20, 20171 votes

{quoted}

They weren't exactly designed to focus tanks - aside from maybe stuff like cass, orianna, azir.

Rushing Warmogs counters AP carries who normally do well against tanks.

The problem is when you have the majority of gold on your team as an AP caster, a tank who's even or slightly behind can completely shut you down by rushing Warmogs and there's zero counter-play for you to stay in the game. Your advantage is basically nullified, because you can't do enough damage to kill the tanks, and most tanks can kill you quickly or lock you down.

woodvsmurphSep 20, 20171 votes

They CAN. They don't have a GUARANTEE they will be able to do that. Even if they aren't ahead, or... they rush an mr item, they can do what you say.

This is where TEAMWORK comes in. Sure your frontline isn't as tanky, but even if it's a support braum or losing jungle shyv who only has bloodrazor and ruby crystal, they have to go in first and FORCE the enemy to use cc on THEM. It's like yesterday I was fed on renekton, but the rest of my team was behind. I was the only tank besides braum. So braum HAD to initiate so I didn't tank cc from 4 people and all their burst and dps - or I'd die in 2.5 sec and barely get off damage. Even though he couldn't tank much, if he ate a bit of cc and some basic abilities, it bought me time to get on an enemy carry while full hp and do some work. Then they couldn't burst me as fast - I could get off a full damage combo BEFORE tanking any serious damage - usually allowing us to win the fight. When no one else would initiate? We lost hard.

Point is - you shouldn't BE the frontline as an ap caster. If you and your team play it right - especially knowing YOU ARE THE DAMAGE SOURCE for your team, you won't eat the enemy's initial cc. You can position properly to open the fight, and while it's hard to ignore a sej or something in your face - they don't have the damage to solo you. They've used their initial cc - look for the chance to slip past them and focus down the carries behind them if you can blow one up. If you can't, you look to kite and trade out who is in frontline HOPEFULLY before they die. So shyv tanks a bit, then ults away since it can't be interrupted, then sup braum tanks... you get the idea. All while kiting backwards and using BASIC ABILITIES (don't waste ult on just a tank or even just 2 tanks) to whittle down enemy tank(s). All the while, you are looking to get past them when their cc is down so you can blow up the enemy carries. Also, you preferably fight by your towers - forcing the 0 armor enemy tank to soak an additional source of damage if they want to cc you.

YennSep 20, 20171 votes

{quoted}

They CAN. They don't have a GUARANTEE they will be able to do that. Even if they aren't ahead, or... they rush an mr item, they can do what you say.

This is where TEAMWORK comes in. Sure your frontline isn't as tanky, but even if it's a support braum or losing jungle shyv who only has bloodrazor and ruby crystal, they have to go in first and FORCE the enemy to use cc on THEM. It's like yesterday I was fed on renekton, but the rest of my team was behind. I was the only tank besides braum. So braum HAD to initiate so I didn't tank cc from 4 people and all their burst and dps - or I'd die in 2.5 sec and barely get off damage. Even though he couldn't tank much, if he ate a bit of cc and some basic abilities, it bought me time to get on an enemy carry while full hp and do some work. Then they couldn't burst me as fast - I could get off a full damage combo BEFORE tanking any serious damage - usually allowing us to win the fight. When no one else would initiate? We lost hard.

Point is - you shouldn't BE the frontline as an ap caster. If you and your team play it right - especially knowing YOU ARE THE DAMAGE SOURCE for your team, you won't eat the enemy's initial cc. You can position properly to open the fight, and while it's hard to ignore a sej or something in your face - they don't have the damage to solo you. They've used their initial cc - look for the chance to slip past them and focus down the carries behind them if you can blow one up. If you can't, you look to kite and trade out who is in frontline HOPEFULLY before they die. So shyv tanks a bit, then ults away since it can't be interrupted, then sup braum tanks... you get the idea. All while kiting backwards and using BASIC ABILITIES (don't waste ult on just a tank or even just 2 tanks) to whittle down enemy tank(s). All the while, you are looking to get past them when their cc is down so you can blow up the enemy carries. Also, you preferably fight by your towers - forcing the 0 armor enemy tank to soak an additional source of damage if they want to cc you.

You're missing the point, which is that if you're 8-1-3 as an AP caster, a 3-3-2 tank can build a Warmogs and completely fuck you over and negate your entire advantage.

This isn't Heroes of the Storm. Your success doesn't translate into power for your team mates. There need to be ways to maintain your advantage, similar to the way ADCs have items with good build paths that provide intermediate power for virtually every situation.

5050BSSep 20, 20171 votes

Immobile mages are in a very bad place currently

They all need 35+ minute games where they can farm and that is not the meta.

If Riot would give Veigar his W changes at 20% per 50 stacks he could be viable.

VICKLIUSSep 24, 20171 votes

it not liandry's that need buff, it is haunting guise even at half its rate is what I am inferring is needed to counter. there is that option but currently it sounds like you have bad game play by over extending allowing them too easily gank you, if they that much of a problem for you, play defensive , build half of a mr/arm item that you would get to deal w/ your opposing lane champ then liandrys(should cost about an item an a half which is what warrmog an cinder hulk does, although u should have more gold since you are in a lane).