fair evelynn buff

Bears Dont Care·Aug 10, 2016·4 votes·1,007 views

No longer does she have an ult that deals damage but cannot kill. I would recommend lowering it down to 30%ap. Or making it so there is an ad component. If only so ad eve can remain viable as an alternative

14 Comments

jaymc1130Aug 10, 20162 votes

Ad bruiser eve remains viable. Still just not as strong as ap bruiser eve. Ap assassin eve gets pretty badly nerfed with this change tho. Ad eve never cared about the ult damage in the first place, it's just a slow and a shield. Same for ap bruiser eve.

Kowe The EwokAug 10, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Ad bruiser eve remains viable. Still just not as strong as ap bruiser eve. Ap assassin eve gets pretty badly nerfed with this change tho. Ad eve never cared about the ult damage in the first place, it's just a slow and a shield. Same for ap bruiser eve.

Wrong. AD Eve did care about the ult damage. It's the reason why she was able to be on par fighting bruisers. The %health damage is essential for AD to stay competitive. Without it she loses her one advantage over other assassins that defines her niche: The ability to fight bruisers which compensates for her worse brust potential against squishies compared to other assassins.

The Eve changes are horrible.

jaymc1130Aug 10, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kowe The Ewok,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=043aZRPA,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-08-10T13:29:21.468+0000)

Wrong. AD Eve did care about the ult damage. It's the reason why she was able to be on par fighting bruisers. The %health damage is essential for AD to stay competitive. Without it she loses her one advantage over other assassins that defines her niche: The ability to fight bruisers which compensates for her worse brust potential against squishies compared to other assassins.

The Eve changes are horrible.

http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=Likeamaws http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=Oobestevenaoo

I might know a little bit more about eve than you mate. Just saying.

The changes appear to be a significant buff to Eve's early game and a less significant nerf to her late game. Ad bruiser eve never cared about the damage from the ult because she was stil going to jump you from the slow and dps you with qs and aas at a Yi/jax like level. That won't change. Ap bruiser eve didn't care about the damage from her ult because she was just going to use the slow to jump you and then kite you to death in 3 seconds or less with Rylai anyways.

Now ap assassin eve cares a lot about the ult damage, and this appears to be a hardcore nerf to ap assassin eve, but she's not great in team fights anyways and would rather prioritize picks on high priority targets and not tanks in the first place. So while it's a big nerf for her, it won't do much to change her fundamental gameplay pattern.

I have played eve in every way there is to play her. Original ap assassin season 1. Dfg assassin season 2. Hybrid burn eve season 3. All the various bruisers, ad and ap, and full tank. I haven't played all these yet with the changes, but I don't think I'll be doing anything differently than I am now in the near future on her. Her ap bruiser style will still be broken and I'll still be a diamond eve player looking to hit master and make that smurfs name truly accurate.

RavenhaleAug 10, 20161 votes

It depends on what sort of AD Eve is being discussed here. If we are talking about a Titanic Hydra/Bloodrazor Eve that was aiming for % health damage... well that Eve does care about her Ult damage being nerfed. You won't be diving their tanks and bruisers recklessly.

Also, there is a "minimum damage" listing in the tool tip, suggesting her damage still scales with target health. Depending on how her damage scales based on target health... well, I just don't see this coming out too well for any version of Eve.

Nerf to damage is nerf to damage. There's no logic in saying any version of Eve doesn't care about her damage. If it shaves off a couple auto attacks, that's less time fighting. Even a DPS Eve should respect that. It certainly impacts Burst Eve harder.

jaymc1130Aug 10, 20161 votes

{quoted}

It depends on what sort of AD Eve is being discussed here. If we are talking about a Titanic Hydra/Bloodrazor Eve that was aiming for % health damage... well that Eve does care about her Ult damage being nerfed. You won't be diving their tanks and bruisers recklessly.

Certainly the style of AD bruiser build would matter to a degree. I tend to refer to the most successful variation that typically went something along the lines of this as a core:

item 3078 item 3153 item 1412 or item 1400 and then a mix of defensive items.

Also, there is a "minimum damage" listing in the tool tip, suggesting her damage still scales with target health. Depending on how her damage scales based on target health... well, I just don't see this coming out too well for any version of Eve.

The minimum damage is what is the best part of the buff. It allows the ult to be an execution tool again. I find that change risky, last time this was possible was 4 seasons ago and it was so blatantly over powered that eve was repeatedly nerfed and reworked for the second time in 2 seasons.

Nerf to damage is nerf to damage. There's no logic in saying any version of Eve doesn't care about her damage. If it shaves off a couple auto attacks, that's less time fighting. Even a DPS Eve should respect that. It certainly impacts Burst Eve harder.

Its only a nerf to damage if the target has significantly high hp totals. It seems it will be a significant buff to damage for targets with lower hp, regardless of tank or squishy. The 800 hp jax who still thinks he can maybe fight is going to be in for a rude awakening with these changes. The voli bear at the same hp but no passive is going to be surprised in a very bad way. It also appears that this change should be a significant buff to her early game. The ult CD is lower, and it has a higher minimum damage before targets begin to scale with hp. If anything this is likely to be the most problematic portion of her change. Eve is already a hyper scaling champion who excels late game and this was territory riot pushed her into toward the end of last season. It seems they are giving her more early game power without reducing her late game power drastically, which will make her even more consistent and decidedly stronger in early game stages so that reaching that late game scaling potential is more likely. This could prove to see her nerfed hard in the coming months if she starts to run away with the early game and outpace other champions who fill that niche as she was towards the end of season 5.

RavenhaleAug 10, 20161 votes

I was fairly confident it was a buff for maybe levels 6-12 (even made a chart for health values per 100 AP) until I saw the "based on how healthy targets" and minimum damage. If it was a consistent flat damage, I could readily say this is a early/mid game buff.

However, if those flat damage listings are actually max damage values for full health enemies... it's just hard to say.

800 hp hit by the old Ult would take 130 dmg from a Lvl 6, 100 AP Eve and would take 225 dmg from a Lvl 16 300 AP Eve.

If those had been flat damages, the same Evelynn's would have done 200 dmg and 520 dmg respectively. A ridiculous buff on an AoE Ult against anything under 1800 health. She would be nerfed in the next patch if this got through.

But they kept the Ult a sliding scale. The text that her Ult damage is based on "how healthy they are" implies a % max health value dictates Ult damage. So if that 800 hp Jax is 75% health early game, he would take 75% dmg (or 150) while that 800 hp late game Jax is 40% health taking 210 dmg (40%). Now compare that to an 800 hp Volibear that has 4000 health. If my suspicions are correct, her Ult will only do 20% (105 dmg) to him (unless the Minimum value increases with Rank).

In summary

A Lvl 6, 100 AP Eve is nerfed against any champion with more than 1250 health. A Lvl 11, 200 AP Eve is nerfed against any champion with more than 1650 health. A lvl 16, 300 AP Eve is nerfed against any champion with more than 1850 health.

She does approximately the same damage to champions with less than these health values.

jaymc1130Aug 10, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I was fairly confident it was a buff for maybe levels 6-12 (even made a chart for health values per 100 AP) until I saw the "based on how healthy targets" and minimum damage. If it was a consistent flat damage, I could readily say this is a early/mid game buff.

However, if those flat damage listings are actually max damage values for full health enemies... it's just hard to say.

800 hp hit by the old Ult would take 130 dmg from a Lvl 6, 100 AP Eve and would take 225 dmg from a Lvl 16 300 AP Eve.

If those had been flat damages, the same Evelynn's would have done 200 dmg and 520 dmg respectively. A ridiculous buff on an AoE Ult against anything under 1800 health. She would be nerfed in the next patch if this got through.

But they kept the Ult a sliding scale. The text that her Ult damage is based on "how healthy they are" implies a % max health value dictates Ult damage. So if that 800 hp Jax is 75% health early game, he would take 75% dmg (or 150) while that 800 hp late game Jax is 40% health taking 210 dmg (40%). Now compare that to an 800 hp Volibear that has 4000 health. If my suspicions are correct, her Ult will only do 20% (105 dmg) to him (unless the Minimum value increases with Rank).

In summary

A Lvl 6, 100 AP Eve is nerfed against any champion with more than 1250 health. A Lvl 11, 200 AP Eve is nerfed against any champion with more than 1650 health. A lvl 16, 300 AP Eve is nerfed against any champion with more than 1850 health.

She does approximately the same damage to champions with less than these health values.

I haven't done any of the math and we don't have the exact function of her ult to judge by, but this rough estimate strikes me as seemingly pretty close to what might be happening with the changes. I'd expect the health values to be slightly higher for their break even points but not by much. But again, I play the heck out of eve and I don't ever, like, literally, NEVER, use her ult as a source of damage. Ever. I use it as a source of initiation that provides a big swing in initiative. If I'm able to start using it as an execute as well I'll be pretty stoked. I play her ap bruiser mostly and I tend to output the most damage and take the most damage for my team so its not like I lack for damage output and would be concerned by the high health target nerf. Its not like I'm trying to assassinate them any ways. Tanky champs I can just kite to death with no real form of counterplay.

Kowe The EwokAug 10, 20161 votes

It's an extreme nerf against anything that has more than 1600 HP. Especially if you're playing AD Eve.

Eve is far worse at taking out squishies than other assassins are - thus her advantage USED TO BE % damage which allowed her doing a better job at fighting bruisers. Which was her niche - as an more all-round orientated assassin.

These ult changes completely destroy her ability to fight bruisers or tanks with both AD and AP Eve and significantly lower AD Eve's power vs squishy targets as well.

It's an completely unfitting change for her niche and destroys another complete build paths at the same time.

Ruff626Aug 10, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kowe The Ewok,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=043aZRPA,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-08-10T13:26:12.691+0000)

It's an extreme nerf against anything that has more than 1600 HP. Especially if you're playing AD Eve.

Eve is far worse at taking out squishies than other assassins are - thus her advantage USED TO BE % damage which allowed her doing a better job at fighting bruisers. Which was her niche - as an more all-round orientated assassin.

These ult changes completely destroy her ability to fight bruisers or tanks with both AD and AP Eve and significantly lower AD Eve's power vs squishy targets as well.

It's an completely unfitting change for her niche and destroys another complete build paths at the same time.

x2. Extreme nerf.

AD got shit on more then AP, but there is little scaling for AP at all built in there. It should be 100/200/300 +60 or 70% ap.

Bears Dont CareAug 11, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kowe The Ewok,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=043aZRPA,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-08-10T13:26:12.691+0000)

It's an extreme nerf against anything that has more than 1600 HP. Especially if you're playing AD Eve.

I would have to disagree for several reasons on this point.

It affects CURRENT HP. Which means the damaging ult that Evelynn uses can only be used for initiation. It isn't an effective tool outside of that option.
The current change means it can actually be used to kill a target. This means she can use it to finish off a target, and gain a shield to survive any DoTs afterwards, instead of being forced to use it on initiation. More flexibility is an amazing thing.
Champions above 1600 HP generally tend to be tanks, and have significantly more mitigation than non bruisers/tanks. Looking at purely the HP it is a nerf, when you consider the rest of the factors present, such as the MR, then it is significantly less.

Eve is far worse at taking out squishies than other assassins are - thus her advantage USED TO BE % damage which allowed her doing a better job at fighting bruisers. Which was her niche - as an more all-round orientated assassin.

She was far worse at assassinating squishies because her ultimate ha to be used to initiate a fight. It meant the squishy would be taking essentially the same amount of damage as a tank health wise. it also meant evelynn was the target because she initiated the fight, making her an awful assassin.

Now? Her ultimate deals less damage initially, at the cost of being capable of being used to initiate AND end a fight. She isn't restricted to being a damage sponge. She can be a true assassin, a bruiser, or a tank. This change is a good thing.

These ult changes completely destroy her ability to fight bruisers or tanks with both AD and AP Eve and significantly lower AD Eve's power vs squishy targets as well.

It's an completely unfitting change for her niche and destroys another complete build paths at the same time.

Hardly, you give up damage, for flexibility and overall more effective assassination. This is clearly an attempt to give evelynn the assassin niche in which she was designed. She never had a niche before because her ult lost its kill potential when it transferred from maximum to current HP.

Kowe The EwokAug 11, 20161 votes

Her ultimate still scales with enemy hp...

Bears Dont CareAug 11, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kowe The Ewok,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=043aZRPA,comment-id=000100010000,timestamp=2016-08-11T11:04:38.797+0000)

Her ultimate still scales with enemy hp...

Not on pbe. It is flat damage now, which is a good thing.

Kowe The EwokAug 11, 20161 votes

On PBE it still states that the damage still is based on how healthy the enemies are: https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-bdSQtGLGa2A/V6qsWE2Y5DI/AAAAAAAASrw/ByRQFFqTde8ZIk9JWf8uwfkeZoasSAUCgCLcB/s640/ever.jpg That's why it has minimum damage... ANd that's just one more reason why this change is a flatout nerf.

Bears Dont CareAug 12, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kowe The Ewok,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=043aZRPA,comment-id=00010001000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-11T18:39:55.013+0000)

On PBE it still states that the damage still is based on how healthy the enemies are: https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-bdSQtGLGa2A/V6qsWE2Y5DI/AAAAAAAASrw/ByRQFFqTde8ZIk9JWf8uwfkeZoasSAUCgCLcB/s640/ever.jpg That's why it has minimum damage... ANd that's just one more reason why this change is a flatout nerf.

Are you serious right now? Evelynn currently does NOT have a minimum damage component and never did in the past. The minimum damage component you see is from the pbe change to her ultimate. Which is a buff. For someone who hates this change, you brought up an aspect evelynn doesn't have and would gladly desire currently.