Question: How would you feel if Riot spent the next few patches working exclusively on resistances

AstroFerrari ·Aug 28, 2018·83 votes·23,034 views

And that emcompasses everything. Items, champions, Towers, keystones. Just want to know what you guys think.

114 Comments

RiotRiot MapleNectarAug 28, 201865 votes

We talked about this a bit, and there's another post coming on Friday, but during preseason we're going to be splitting stats out from rune paths, and allowing you to select which ones you want. It won't be quite as extensible as it was in the past (like 25 different selections for each type of rune), but the system will support selecting offense AND defense, in likely varying amounts. This will get us back to a world where people that want to spec heavy into offense can do so, those who want to spec heavy into defense can do so, or those that want a mix can also achieve that. I'd be super super cautious of us looking at overall lethality beyond what we did on 8.16 given the risk of setting ourselves up for a really slow/boring meta moving into World's, and think that preseason will move us a fair way into what you and many others are looking for. We're fleshing out a post to go out on Friday that will get into a bit more of the details, but wanted to touch on it here in the meantime.

VelasanAug 28, 20182 votes

Can we hit a "medium" meta then? I get that there were people who actually liked this season meta. Anyone who was a big Lee Sin, Shaco, or other early game damage focused champion was loving it.

Thing is for the rest of us we basically felt like we didn't get to play what we wanted for almost an entire season because it was phased out. I want to go back to playing more tanks for example, so I hope the last set of changes did enough to accomplish that.

I still think scuttle crab changes were a mistake, primarily because they give big bonuses for things the player can't affect. It forces people to play junglers that will win duels, and then move to the side of the map the scuttle happens to spawn on or lose it. The other problem is that if one team is ahead that jungler just gets all the scuttles (and free vision + healing because of the plants) coming out with a gold and exp bonus. Also, as a jungler there are other things I would rather be focusing on: towers, dragon, herald, baron, ganks, my red/blue buff and my enemies red/blue buff. Adding scuttle to that list is one too many things to have to rotate on.

Other stuff I'm relatively okay on. I do believe duskblade and stormrazer probably give too much damage, but I like the idea of the items. I also don't mind runes reforged even though I would like to see even more rune options added in.

Decoupling stats from page choices is also a very good idea following the rune update and I'm glad to hear about it.

DazerthAug 28, 20182 votes

What about utility runes like Cdr and spell vamp?

Seer of MindAug 29, 20181 votes

I don't believe that spell vamp will be returning, it was completely removed because of Vladimir

JaspersAug 29, 20181 votes

After Morgana's passive change it only exists in name in Lee Sin's W second cast and Maw. Ravenous Hunter and Hextech Gunblade have versions of it just not named spellvamp.

Chase 5Aug 28, 20188 votes

[{quoted}](name=Maple Nectar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=00xirEwa,comment-id=0014,timestamp=2018-08-28T16:55:24.442+0000)

given the risk of setting ourselves up for a really slow/boring meta moving into World's,

I'm going to try to be as constructive as possible in saying this. I believe right now the pacing of League is starting to feel good again. However, league is at its best when teams/teammates can work together on creative combos, tactics, clever decision making, etc. Also the meta gets more boring when the least amount of champions are viable in pro play. I love playing and watching league, but will stop watching games for the day when I see the same 14-18 champions picked again and again. There is only so much trundle/sej jungle I can stand to watch. It's fun when creativity and daring choices can be viable, and honestly you can hear this in the crowd. Anytime a champion is hovered that hasn't been played in awhile the crowd gets excited, but then sighs with disappointment when it goes back to a safe meta pick. It's exciting when things get diverse. I know this can be hard to balance for, but with all of that being said I would be careful defining what a "really slow/boring meta is." if the game becomes too fast, it moves into a twitch-reaction space that starts to resemble a mess, making it harder to pull off intended combinations and play. I think you have to give more credit to viewers who like being able to see intentionality. As a long time soccer player and spectator, it had a similar problem in the US early on. Some thought it was boring, until the game was explained to them more or they watched more than one game. The game opens up over time, and people start to see the ever going game, the choices being made, the back and forth, and risks, etc. Now most people I know enjoy watching soccer over other sports, even though the pace hasn't really changed. I agree it doesn't move at a snail's pace, but the moment it feels rushed or disjointed it's no longer fun to watch.

MordepoolAug 28, 201824 votes

We Better see Scaling defenses.

WiegrafOfValorAug 28, 201811 votes

Can Riot give us anything more solid before pre-season? I don't want to get my hopes high to just get +2 Armor at lvl 1 and all ADCs and Assassin's get +10AD per lvl as a compensation buff because you might get Armor on your runes.

I want numbers, data, even if it is subjective to change. Just so we can see where you're heading with this.

All I want to say is, don't leave us in the dark. Riot is having a lot of sht on Reddit due to World's budget cut, this meta sucks, damage creep is high. The last thing you want is leaving your audience boiling these problems in their minds for months without any information to give them the slightest sign of hope.

VerxintAug 28, 20183 votes

Hah. Just some tiny stat changes would be nice even if they suck. You know Riot's going to add 5 new mechanics and rework 3 items to be NEW AND EXCITING instead of just tweak numbers

TehNACHOAug 28, 20182 votes

To be totally fair, even the smallest stat changes tend to have huge effects, at least relative to the size of the change itself. -3 AD is a funny meme until you remember how Junglers and ADCs even function.

VerxintAug 29, 20183 votes

Oh totally. I'd actually be fine with small stat changes if they don't do their usual "compensation buff" bullshit. I was just sarcastically pointing out that they're more likely to overcomplicate the situation.

bobyjhon132Aug 29, 20184 votes

AHEM case in point item 3147 they nerfed the damage a little bit, but boy we wouldn't want this item to be too weak, gotta give it compensation son

Nea104Aug 29, 20182 votes

They also buffed its Lethality stat at the same time :P

Ulquiorra0123Aug 29, 20181 votes

There is no possible way to do this. You have to understand that worlds is their main source of income during the year considering so many people tune in across the world. On top of that, they play on the same patches we do, I don't know if 8.17 or 8.18 is the worlds patch, but the ones before it cannot be super heavy on changes at this point. Or we run into a Najin White Shield situation where the team got gutted going into worlds. They already did major changes to the bot lane which gutted Griffen, but that's fine it was early enough to adapt.

WiegrafOfValorAug 29, 20182 votes

Dude, I'm just asking them to give us information on what they are going to do on preseason. A major post, or a video telling key changes they are aiming to do, with details, no vague bullshit they always do.

SugeMinPikkAug 28, 201816 votes

[{quoted}](name=Maple Nectar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=00xirEwa,comment-id=0014,timestamp=2018-08-28T16:55:24.442+0000)

I'd be super super cautious of us looking at overall lethality beyond what we did on 8.16 given the risk of setting ourselves up for a really slow/boring meta moving into World's

#World's

There's y'all's answer on why Rengo is getting buffed

Ulquiorra0123Aug 29, 20181 votes

He is seriously struggling right now as are all assassins, but its okay, we get you only look at winrate.

SugeMinPikkAug 29, 20181 votes

I play rengo buddy, he's in a perfectly fine place

Ulquiorra0123Aug 29, 20181 votes

Level 19, talking about fine place of a champion. He isn't in a fine place, he has no contention to any of the top junglers in the game, and to be quite frank, even the A tier destroys him.

Rengar is one of those champions that if he is anywhere near strong his play rate goes through the roof because most high elo junglers (myself included) have him as a champion they can play at a high level. Yet his playrate is at a measly 2%. Hes struggling, time to accept it. Then again, the gutting to the domination tree really hurt him and his ability to burst out certain champions that just so happen to be meta.

SugeMinPikkAug 29, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Level 19, talking about fine place of a champion.

Ofc a silver is incapable of grasping the concept of multiple accounts

Yes, you're silver. 46% winrate gold 5. It's only a matter of time.

Siegfriedx1Aug 29, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Maple Nectar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=00xirEwa,comment-id=0014,timestamp=2018-08-28T16:55:24.442+0000)

We talked about this a bit, and there's another post coming on Friday, but during preseason we're going to be splitting stats out from rune paths, and allowing you to select which ones you want. It won't be quite as extensible as it was in the past (like 25 different selections for each type of rune), but the system will support selecting offense AND defense, in likely varying amounts. This will get us back to a world where people that want to spec heavy into offense can do so, those who want to spec heavy into defense can do so, or those that want a mix can also achieve that. I'd be super super cautious of us looking at overall lethality beyond what we did on 8.16 given the risk of setting ourselves up for a really slow/boring meta moving into World's, and think that preseason will move us a fair way into what you and many others are looking for. We're fleshing out a post to go out on Friday that will get into a bit more of the details, but wanted to touch on it here in the meantime.

I think Im going to cry. At long last, league will come back to be what I used to love =(. I stopped playing after the damage creep feeling. Please carry one with those changes and bring some of the options from old runes back! Allow life runes, life regen runes and Life per level runes too please.

King I RatAug 30, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Maple Nectar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=00xirEwa,comment-id=0014,timestamp=2018-08-28T16:55:24.442+0000)

We talked about this a bit, and there's another post coming on Friday, but during preseason we're going to be splitting stats out from rune paths, and allowing you to select which ones you want. It won't be quite as extensible as it was in the past (like 25 different selections for each type of rune), but the system will support selecting offense AND defense, in likely varying amounts. This will get us back to a world where people that want to spec heavy into offense can do so, those who want to spec heavy into defense can do so, or those that want a mix can also achieve that. I'd be super super cautious of us looking at overall lethality beyond what we did on 8.16 given the risk of setting ourselves up for a really slow/boring meta moving into World's, and think that preseason will move us a fair way into what you and many others are looking for. We're fleshing out a post to go out on Friday that will get into a bit more of the details, but wanted to touch on it here in the meantime.

I think re-introducing player choice when it comes to the Runes is a great idea. Give people choices. The current Runes Reforged gives you the options of "Damage, more damage, utility maybe". If they want to go full glass-cannon then so be it. If they want to get some early resistrances to deal with an enemy assassin/burst mage then so be it. Choices like that keep the game fresh.

Aphelios is OPAug 28, 201855 votes

They'll screw it up even more tbh.

AstroFerrari Aug 28, 201826 votes

I honestly don't think you're wrong haha

Tomoe GozenAug 28, 20182 votes

{quoted}

I honestly don't think you're wrong haha

So, which is it really? Can't be expecting of Riot to change the game and then in the same thread, in the second comment, you say "well, they will probably fuck it up anyway". You didn't say it but you agreed with the person saying it. The whole point of your thread loses its meaning if you just backpedal into meme territory.

If this is how you want to lead a discussion, there was no point in even asking a question you clearly wasn't looking an answer for. Play the game as is instead of wishing that something changed but in all actuality, you don't really want any changes in the first place.

Nea104Aug 29, 20183 votes

They have kept doing worse and worse for months (it's basically September, and look at the game state). They have ignored basically every issue, even if it was evident how bad things were back in pre-Season.

They are the same people in the same positions. Is it that unlikely that they won't be able to fix their game? :P

VerxintAug 28, 20185 votes

This. I don't want more defenses. I want less damage

BeatzBoyFTWAug 28, 201839 votes

Zed I can't one-shot anymore riot trash company WAAH WAAH

Pika FoxAug 28, 20181 votes

.... If zed cant 1 combo someone, why would you ever play him? Sure, against a tank its unreasonable, but against a squishy he needs to 1 combo to be worth picking. Same with any other assassin.

BeatzBoyFTWAug 28, 20183 votes

He one-shots without needing his ult at all. With this "resistances adjustments", about time he starts getting his WEQWEQWEQ lazy ass out.

Pika FoxAug 28, 20181 votes

If he kills you with weq, youre behind by multiple items and levels. If he uses his W offensively and doesnt kill yoi, you have a free lane for 20s. Zed using w to not get a kill or escape is just a bad zed.

DuskDaUmbreonAug 28, 20182 votes

Or...He just got Duskblade before you finished Zhonya's.

WEQ is a shitton of damage. Not as much anymore due to electrocute nerfs, but still way too much. Easily enough to let him just press W again and AA+Ignite you for a kill.

And, sure, let's say he doesn't kill you. He just leaves you at 30%. That means you're going to die if you get ganked, and you're going to die if he uses Flash+Q+Ignite.

Pika FoxAug 29, 20181 votes

You can literally qwer him easier than he can qwer you. Its not like burst mages have no burst.

DuskDaUmbreonAug 29, 20181 votes

Easier? Maybe.

Not necessarily faster, however. Lux's R isn't going off before Zed lands his WEQ.

Pika FoxAug 29, 20181 votes

Lux cqn QER in the time it takes for R to cast. And pray tell how zed is doing all this while snared.

DuskDaUmbreonAug 29, 20181 votes

Zed doesn't need R to kill a Lux at that point, though. He just has to have W out and be in close enough range.

Q, E, and ignite aren't stopped by a snare. Hell, I'm not even sure that sending out the W shadow is stopped while snared (Although obviously you can't go to it while snared).

Pika FoxAug 29, 20181 votes

Hes likely not in range for ignite, and hes not gunna go through all lux's HP + shield without R.

Spicy RiceAug 28, 201813 votes

The guy didn't really put it properly.

Zed should be able to one-shot combo if he lands everything.

The problem is, right now, he just needs e-auto-ignite + duskblade to oneshot

nelogisAug 28, 201830 votes

I would say working exlusively JUST on resistances isn't a good idea.

Looking at resistances also needs to be coupled with damage output. Looking at it in a vacuum wont give good results.

And that is basically what they are going to do in pre-season 9 At least that's what they told us.

Personally I think their minds are too crowded with "innovative design and fresh ideas" They'll probably come up with something called "reactive resistances" which is basically the counterpart to adaptive damage, then tell us that MR/Armor is going to be removed because it was too "binary" of a mechanic and instead we have now "reactive resistances"

Coupled with that comes a half assed tank item rework and another rune overhaul and after trying to fix that mess for 8 months they will make an announcement about how too much change distracts from the fun and create a list on what they learned and tell us pre-season 10 will be devoted to fix resistances.

Then pre-season 10 hits and instead of returning Armor/MR and fixing stuff they introduce new resistance types

Metal alloys Reactive surface plating Theomactive surface plating

One of which blocks true damage and the resistance formula gets reworked to "% Reduction = Resistance x Res multiplier + 76.875 / Res anti multiplier x 2 + 50" For some reason and yes you heard it right we now have anti resistance multipliers to counter the stacking of Thermoactve surface plating and lethality gets another rework so that blablablablabla

I could expect it from them at this point which is sad

Drago326Aug 28, 20183 votes

{quoted}

I would say working exlusively JUST on resistances isn't a good idea.

Looking at resistances also needs to be coupled with damage output. Looking at it in a vacuum wont give good results.

And that is basically what they are going to do in pre-season 9 At least that's what they told us.

Personally I think their minds are too crowded with "innovative design and fresh ideas" They'll probably come up with something called "reactive resistances" which is basically the counterpart to adaptive damage, then tell us that MR/Armor is going to be removed because it was too "binary" of a mechanic and instead we have now "reactive resistances"

Coupled with that comes a half assed tank item rework and another rune overhaul and after trying to fix that mess for 8 months they will make an announcement about how too much change distracts from the fun and create a list on what they learned and tell us pre-season 10 will be devoted to fix resistances.

Then pre-season 10 hits and instead of returning Armor/MR and fixing stuff they introduce new resistance types

Metal alloys Reactive surface plating Theomactive surface plating

One of which blocks true damage and the resistance formula get's reworked to "% Reduction = Resistance x Res multiplier + 76.875 / Res anti multiplier x 2 + 50" For some reason and yes you heard it right we now have anti resistance multipliers to counter the stacking of Thermoactve surface plating and lethality gets another rework so that blablablablabla

I could expect it from them at this point which is sad

You've definitely has some thought to this huh.. xd riot would do this though 100%

EasternBladeStarAug 28, 20182 votes

Don't give them ideas, jesus!

Politur grimeAug 28, 201818 votes

Many assasssins mains wouldn't play the game anymore, I guess. ^^

MeritasAug 28, 20189 votes

Maybe Assassin kits should work around True Damage. Tanks and bruisers will counter them by building Health, one thing ADCs/Assassins can't afford.

VyupraxAug 28, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Politur grime,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=00xirEwa,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-08-28T07:44:20.859+0000)

Many assasssins mains wouldn't play the game anymore, I guess. ^^

Is that a bad thing though?

Child of the PitAug 28, 201814 votes

Ill be nervous as fuck because that means they would probably raise the damage creep even higher smhw

ned the kledAug 28, 20188 votes

imma be pissed off, cuz they need to be nerfing dmg instead of more buffs

TheCodeisCupCakeAug 28, 20187 votes

They would probably find a way to make armor deal damage

FeuerfalkeFXAug 28, 20188 votes

item 3075

AlienPrimateAug 28, 20185 votes

Laughs in Taric

Emerald FangAug 29, 20184 votes

Resistances don't need buffing, damage needs nerfing. If you buff resistance you swing the meta into tank central, which would be fine but it still means assassins can shit on squishies. Assassins need clear windows of invulnerability, and reduced damage. Reduced out-of-kit damage helps a lot, an assassin who is equal gold with you should have to use their entire combo to kill you (or poke a few times and use ult), not one Q+W+Duskblade+Stormrazor+electocute.